The first resurection

Zao is life · Jun 14, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
Where was Christ when he died.

John 20:17 "Do not cling to Me," Jesus said, "for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.'"

If when Jesus died he went up to heaven, why then after he raised from the dead he said he has not ascended up to God?
Where was Jesus all that time?

The question is not where He was then. The question is where is He now. He wants us to cling to Him now. He wanted His disciples to cling to Him after He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. He said that before He died.

Zao is life · Jun 14, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
No the spirit of God does not stay in a dead body rotting in a grave.
It returns to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

So which are you,
Are you the spirit of God who will return to God or are you man made from the dust of the earth?

Will you defy God or will you obey God?
Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your bread, until you return to the ground--because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return."

A human has his own spirit.

shilohsfoal · Jun 14, 2020

Dave L said:
You need all pertinent scripture, not just one from a book of symbols to arrive at the truth.

There is only one revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show his servants. God did not and would not give it to anyone else.
And Christ himself did not share it with anyone except one apostle. No other apostle was given the revelation. No other prophet was given the revelation.
Paul went to his grave without the knowledge that is in this book. That's just how special it is.

John 21:20 Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them. He was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper to ask, "Lord, who is going to betray You?"

John 21:21 When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"

John 21:22 Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you? You follow Me!"

Not even Peter was called upon to do what John has done.Not even Peter was given what John was given.

Dave L · Jun 14, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
There is only one revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show his servants. God did not and would not give it to anyone else.
And Christ himself did not share it with anyone except one apostle. No other apostle was given the revelation. No other prophet was given the revelation.
Paul went to his grave without the knowledge that is in this book. That's just how special it is.

John 21:20 Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them. He was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper to ask, "Lord, who is going to betray You?"

John 21:21 When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"

But you know what it says?

shilohsfoal · Jun 14, 2020

Dave L said:
But you know what it says?

And I fully except it.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near.

shilohsfoal · Jun 14, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
A human has his own spirit.

Does God lie?
Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your bread, until you return to the ground--because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return."

shilohsfoal · Jun 14, 2020

Or does Lucifer?
Isaiah 14:13 KJV: For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Goodhuman · Jun 14, 2020

This is the resurrection of the righteous. All who are saved on earth and on heaven will be raised and made immortal on earth. It is when New Jerusalem will come down from heaven to earth and when Jesus return, then all saved and all saints will rule with Jesus the earth from New Jerusalem (on earth) 1000 years, while the devil will be in prison.

shilohsfoal · Jun 14, 2020

Goodhuman said:
This is the resurrection of the righteous. All who are saved on earth and on heaven will be raised and made immortal on earth. It is when New Jerusalem will come down from heaven to earth and when Jesus return, then all saved and all saints will rule with Jesus the earth from New Jerusalem (on earth) 1000 years, while the devil will be in prison.

Revelation 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
Revelation 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

DavidPT · Jun 14, 2020

Goodhuman said:
This is the resurrection of the righteous. All who are saved on earth and on heaven will be raised and made immortal on earth. It is when New Jerusalem will come down from heaven to earth and when Jesus return, then all saved and all saints will rule with Jesus the earth from New Jerusalem (on earth) 1000 years, while the devil will be in prison.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you somewhere, I have basically arrived at the same conclusions. What is it that leads you to believe that the new Jerusalem is already here at the beginning of the thousand years?

DavidPT · Jun 14, 2020

What needs to be kept in mind here, the first resurrection in Revelation 20 is being applied to someone, not before they have physically died, but after they have physically died. And that when satan is loosed after the thousand years, he deceives the nations to try and overthrow Christ and those who have part in the first resurrection. But if these martyrs in verse 4 and 6 are reigning with Christ in heaven during the thousand years, as Amils insist, why is the text telling us that satan and the nations are surrounding the saints on earth, and not surrounding saints in heaven instead?

shilohsfoal · Jun 14, 2020

DavidPT said:
What needs to be kept in mind here, the first resurrection in Revelation 20 is being applied to someone, not before they have physically died, but after they have physically died. And that when satan is loosed after the thousand years, he deceives the nations to try and overthrow Christ and those who have part in the first resurrection. But if these martyrs in verse 4 and 6 are reigning with Christ in heaven during the thousand years, as Amils insists, why is the text telling us that satan and the nations are surrounding the saints on earth, and not surrounding saints in heaven instead?

Because Amils don't believe the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him to show his servants.
I bet Paul would have loved to have had the knowledge contained in this revelation but it wasn't given to him. His understanding of the material comprised by the prophets sent to Israel was huge. But I bet he didn't know of two separate resurrections 1000 years apart. Jesus only shared that information with John, long after Paul was dead.

Now the question I've often pondered is why Jesus would not share this information with any other prophets or apostles?

My conclusion is. He did not want everyone to know about it. When the first resurrection takes place, few will understand it did. I've learned who partakes in this first resurrection and I'm not included. I will not awake till the 1000 years expires. After learning who does, I only nodded my head and said God is good. I could not have thought a better ending after such a long journey.

DavidPT · Jun 14, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
I've learned who partakes in this first resurrection and I'm not included. I will not awake till the 1000 years expires.

None of the following applies to you, then?

Blessed and holy----on such the second death hath no power

The resurrection after the thousand years, it does not state they too are blessed and holy. It does not state that they too, the second death hath no power. The 2nd death having no power is meaning that those who it has no power over, they live forever and ever instead. Who is the text applying that to in Revelation 20? Those of the first resurrection? Or those that are resurrected after the thousand years?

shilohsfoal · Jun 14, 2020

DavidPT said:
None of the following applies to you, then?

Blessed and holy----on such the second death hath no power

The resurrection after the thousand years, it does not state they too are blessed and holy. It does not state that they too, the second death hath no power. The 2nd death having no power is meaning that those who it has no power over, they live forever and ever instead. Who is the text applying that to in Revelation 20? Those of the first resurrection? Or those that are resurrected after the thousand years?

The first.
I will be judged according to my works.
I'm perfectly fine with it knowing what is about to take place and knowing my family is not involved. I'm perfectly fine with it. I also am happy for the remnant of Israel that will be chosen.
God is good indeed.

ViaCrucis · Jun 14, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
Revelation of Jesus Christ was written around 96 ad. In this book of prophecy John wrote of the first resurection of a select group of people who were killed because they were preaching the gospel of Jesus and testifying of him much like Paul or Peter were killed.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Now I would like to ask those of you who believe this resurrection of the martyrs has already been fulfilled. Can you point to me any documented proof that these martyrs of Christ has been raised from the dead from 96 ad to the present day?

The historic Christian understanding is that the first resurrection mentioned in the Apocalypse is understood to refer to our conversion and baptism, see Romans 6:4. Christ says He is the Resurrection and the Life, and whoever believes in Him shall live, He says also that in His Father's house are many rooms and He goes to make a place for us that where He is we shall be also. Through Baptism we have been born again to new life by the Spirit (John 3:3-5), and so even in bodily death we have life in and with Christ--for indeed, "He is not God of the dead, but of the living" (Mark 12:27), so that even while absent from the body we are present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). And so those who were slain (and, indeed, we ourselves also) shall be found with the Lord (Revelation 6:9). The "first resurrection" is our "spiritual" resurrection, that is our baptism (Colossians 2:12-13), and so even in death we are alive with Christ, reigning with Him until the day all things are subject to Him, He returns, the dead are raised, and He hands all things over to the Father in order that God be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:20-28).

-CryptoLutheran

shilohsfoal · Jun 14, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
The historic Christian understanding is that the first resurrection mentioned in the Apocalypse is understood to refer to our conversion and baptism, see Romans 6:4. Christ says He is the Resurrection and the Life, and whoever believes in Him shall live, He says also that in His Father's house are many rooms and He goes to make a place for us that where He is we shall be also. Through Baptism we have been born again to new life by the Spirit (John 3:3-5), and so even in bodily death we have life in and with Christ--for indeed, "He is not God of the dead, but of the living" (Mark 12:27), so that even while absent from the body we are present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). And so those who were slain (and, indeed, we ourselves also) shall be found with the Lord (Revelation 6:9). The "first resurrection" is our "spiritual" resurrection, that is our baptism (Colossians 2:12-13), and so even in death we are alive with Christ, reigning with Him until the day all things are subject to Him, He returns, the dead are raised, and He hands all things over to the Father in order that God be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:20-28).

-CryptoLutheran

According to the verse they were beheaded for thier witness of Jesus. Can you tell me how long was it before your conversion was you beheaded for preaching the gospel?

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

shilohsfoal · Jun 14, 2020

In the gospel Jesus tells a handful of Israelis to go out and testify of him and share the good news. He told them they would be brought up before rulers to be judged. They would be beaten. He even told them thier own family members would cause th em to be put to death for testifying of him.He told them them not to go outside Israel and that they would not have gone over all the cities of Israel before he comes.

Matthew 10:21 Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rise against their parents and have them put to death.

There sure are alot of people on this site who like to take thier reward without having to walk in thier shoes.

BABerean2 · Jun 14, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
He said the first resurrection has already taken place. Same thing Paul warned about.
2 Timothy 2:17 and the talk of such men will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
2 Timothy 2:18 who have deviated from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already occurred, and they undermine the faith of some.

There are two different resurrections found in John chapter 5.

The first is the spiritual resurrection found in John 5:24, which occurs when a person is "born-again" of the Spirit of God. It has already occurred for the Saints, like the Apostle Paul, who are now dead, and for modern believers who are alive now.

The second is the bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead found in John 5:28-30, which occurs at the future Second Coming of Christ.

Paul's warning in 2 Timothy referred to the second, instead of the first.

.

ViaCrucis · Jun 14, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
According to the verse they were beheaded for thier witness of Jesus. Can you tell me how long was it before your conversion was you beheaded for preaching the gospel?

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

I think you might need to re-read my post.

-CryptoLutheran

solid_core · Jun 14, 2020

shilohsfoal said:
Revelation of Jesus Christ was written around 96 ad.

Because the Revelation talks about the temple in Jerusalem as still standing, its more probable it was written before 70 AD.

Or at least some parts of it.

The first resurection

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