THE SABBATH TRUTH!

klutedavid · Jun 14, 2020

HARK! said:
Wow! Just wow!

In Acts 21 Paul Paul went through ritual cleansing and paid for the sacrifices of four other men, who had taken the Nazarite Vow, to prove to the Apostles that he was obedient to YHWH's perfect law; and that he would encourage others to that obedience.

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

Do you believe that Paul was actually teaching the following.

Acts 21:21
And they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

Paul was not proving anything to James and the elders.

Paul was instructed to walk lawfully, why? Because Paul was in the capitol of legalism, Jerusalem.

HARK! · Jun 14, 2020

klutedavid said:
Do you believe that Paul was actually teaching the following.

Acts 21:21
And they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

Nope. I believe it was a rumor.

klutedavid said:
Paul was not proving anything to James and the elders.

Paul was instructed to walk lawfully, why? Because Paul was in the capitol of legalism, Jerusalem.

Non sequitur

There is no mandate under the law to take a Nazarite Vow; and there is certainly no mandate to pay for the sacrifices of the Nazarite Vows of others. That was a very expensive proposition.

klutedavid · Jun 14, 2020

HARK! said:
Nope. I believe it was a rumor.

Not according to the letter to the Romans, Paul was definitely telling people to desert the law.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound...

Notice, Paul does not say; we are now under the law.

Paul said, 'released from the law', no longer bound to the law, dead to the law.

That rumor was true and this explains precisely why, Paul did what he did. If Paul was innocent and lawful, then Paul would not need to do anything.

I win you lose.

Non sequitur

There is no mandate under the law to take a Nazarite Vow; and there is certainly no mandate to pay for the sacrifices of the Nazarite Vows of others. That was a very expensive proposition.

Where does the text mention 'Nazarite vow'?

A Nazarite vow involves not cutting one's hair. Paul did not take the Nazarite vow, Paul shaved his head.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 14, 2020

klutedavid said:
Not according to the letter to the Romans, Paul was definitely telling people to desert the law.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound...

Notice, Paul does not say; we are now under the law.

Paul said, 'released from the law', no longer bound to the law, dead to the law.

That rumor was true and this explains precisely why, Paul did what he did. If Paul was innocent and lawful, then Paul would not need to do anything.

I win you lose.Where does the text mention 'Nazarite vow'?

A Nazarite vow involves not cutting one's hair. Paul did not take the Nazarite vow, Paul shaved his head.

Well you would have to disagree with all the old and new testament scriptures and JESUS and the APOSTLES to try and claim that Paul is telling everyone to desert the 10 commandments David. That idea simply goes against the teachings of JESUS and all the Apostles and makes Paul contradict himself.

Your ignoring the context of ROMANS 7:6. We have been released from the penalty of God's Law being dead to that which has bound us which is sin (breaking God's law). Please see ROMANS 6:1-23.

ROMANS 7:5-7 [5], FOR WHEN WE WERE IN THE FLESH, THE MOTIONS OF SINS, WHICH WERE BY THE LAW, DID WORK IN OUR MEMBERS TO BRING FORTH FRUIT TO DEATH. [6], But now we are delivered from the law (penalty is death), that being dead WHEREIN WE WERE HELD; THAT WE SHOULD SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER. [7], WHAT SHALL WE SAY THEN? IS THE LAW SIN? GOD FORBID. NO, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

The purpose of God’s ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) in both the OLD and NEW COVENANTS are to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. They do not make anyone perfect. God’s eternal law shows us that we are all sinners and condemns us for sin (death) and shows us our need of a Savior and lead us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN through faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25. If we have REPENTED from our sins and CONFESSED them to JESUS he is faithful and just to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness * ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; MATTHEW 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15; 6:2; Luke 13:3-5; PROVERBS 28:9-13; ROMANS 6:1-23; 1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:9-13 and we are no longer “UNDER THE LAW” condemned before God of sin *ROMANS 8:1-4. However, if we are continuing in known unrepentant sin then we are still “UNDER THE LAW” condemned before God of sin *ROMANS 3:19-20 and need to seek him in repentance, confession for your sins and faith in his WORD *JOHN 3:15-21

As posted earlier, no one loves JESUS if they knowingly break his commandments *JOHN 14:15. The same as no one loves their neighbore if they knowingly lie, steal, murder and commit adultery with their spouse etc etc *ROMANS 13:8-10. The same as no one loves God if they knowingly make idols in their lives and bow down to worship them, use God's name in vain and break his Sabbath commandment *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-10. According to the scriptures in the new covenant Gentiles are grafted in to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL then you have no part in God's new covenant promise of a new heart *HEBREWS 8:10-12 and to be born again *JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:6-9 to love *1 JOHN 5:2-3; 2 JOHN 1:6 which is Gods' work *PHILIPPIANS 2:13 in those who believe his Word *1 PETER 1:23; 1 JOHN 5:4 .

Sorry dear friend, it seems God's Word disagrees with you. As Paul says "DO WE THEN MAKE VOID (abolish) THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID WE ESTABLSH THE LAW" - ROMANS 3:31.

Paul is not teaching what you are here David neither is JESUS or the APOSTLES.

Scropture support here linked
More scripture support here linked

Hope this helps dear friend

Cribstyl · Jun 14, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Follow the conversation then dear friend. Your other friend was trying to justify lying. Your talking about things no one is talking about.

I did follow the conversation. Hark asked "is it ok to lie? and Malihah said that Rahab had a reason to lie and you're foaming at the mouth, calling her a prostitute who did not keep the law. I took offense when you said she did not know God. My comment were about Rahab was it not?
If your comments about Rahab was truth I would not have posted in this thread. In post 378 You said; (cut and past) "Dear friend, I believe and follow all the bible which is the Word of God. You do know that the new covenant teaches that ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow his Word right? Did you want to have a go at answering my questions to you now? As posted earlier Rahab was a Caananite prostitute with no knowledge of God,...

LGW, I agree with you as the scriptures identify Rahab as a Caananite harlot, but you said she had NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD. The scripture proves you wrong. man up.

HARK! · Jun 14, 2020

klutedavid said:
Not according to the letter to the Romans, Paul was definitely telling people to desert the law.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound...

Notice, Paul does not say; we are now under the law.

Nope; he doesn't say that believers are under the law. Believers are not under Sin's Law; but did you finish reading the chapter?

24 A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace! 25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."

"Slaving for YHWH's law:" These don't strike me as the words of someone who is abandoning YHWH's word.

klutedavid said:
Where does the text mention 'Nazarite vow'?

A Nazarite vow involves not cutting one's hair. Paul did not take the Nazarite vow, Paul shaved his head.

Numbers 6
CLV(i) 1 Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying. 2 Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them:In case a man or a woman should make an extraordinary vow, the Nazirite vow, to sequester himself to Yahweh, 3 from wine and intoxicant shall he sequester himself. Vinegar of wine and vinegar of an intoxicant he shall not drink, and any other liquid of grapes he shall not drink, and grapes, sappy or dried, he shall not eat. 4 All the days of his sequestration from all which is made from the vine, the wine from pips as well as grape-skin he shall not eat. 5 All the days of his Nazirite vow no razor shall pass over his head; until the days are fulfilled in which he is sequestering himself to Yahweh he shall come to be holy, letting the locks of the hair of his head grow great. 6 All the days of his sequestration to Yahweh he shall not come near a dead soul. 7 Even for his father or for his mother, for his brother or for his sister, he shall not defile himself for them at their death, because the symbol of sequestration to his Elohim is on his head. 8 All the days of his sequestration he is holy to Yahweh. 9 In case someone dying should die near him in an instant, suddenly, so that he defiles his head of sequestration, then he will shave his head on the day of his cleansing. On the seventh day shall he shave it. 10 And on the eighth day he shall bring two turtledoves or two dove squabs to the priest, at the opening of the tent of appointment. 11 The priest will offer one for a sin offering and one for an ascent offering, and he will make a propitiatory shelter over him because of that which he had sinned concerning the dead soul. Then he will hallow his head on that da. 12 and sequester himself to Yahweh for the days of his sequestration and bring a year-old he-lamb for a guilt offering. Yet the former days shall fall out because his sequestration was unclean. 13 This is the law of the Nazirite on the day of fulfilling the days of his sequestration. One shall bring him to the opening of the tent of appointment. 14 He will bring near his approach present to Yahweh, one flawless he-lamb, a year-old, for an ascent offering, and one flawless ewe-lamb, a year-old, for a sin offering, and one flawless ram for peace offerings, 15 also a tray of unleavened, perforated cakes of flour mingled with oil, and unleavened wafers anointed with oil, and their approach present and their libations. 16 Then the priest will bring them near before Yahweh and offer his sin offering and his ascent offering. 17 He shall offer the ram as a sacrifice of peace offerings to Yahweh along with the tray of unleavened cakes. And the priest will offer his approach present and his libation. 18 Then the Nazirite will shave his head of sequestration at the opening of the tent of appointment; he will take the hair of his head of sequestration and put it on the fire which is under the sacrifice of peace offerings. 19 The priest will take the cooked shank from the ram and one unleavened, perforated cake from the tray and one unleavened wafer, and he will put them on the palms of the Nazirite after he has shaved himself of his sequestration symbol. 20 The priest will wave them as a wave offering before Yahweh. It is holy for the priest in addition to the chest of the wave offering and the leg of the heave offering. Thereafter the Nazirite may drink wine. 21 This is the law of the Nazirite who vows his approach present to Yahweh at his sequestration, aside from what his hand can afford. Corresponding to his vow which he vows, so shall he do concerning the law of his sequestration.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 14, 2020

Cribstyl said:
I did follow the conversation. Hark asked "is it ok to lie? and Malihah said that Rahab had a reason to lie and you're foaming at the mouth, calling her a prostitute who did not keep the law. I took offense when you said she did not know God. My comment were about Rahab was it not?
If your comments about Rahab was truth I would not have posted in this thread. In post 378 You said; (cut and past) "Dear friend, I believe and follow all the bible which is the Word of God. You do know that the new covenant teaches that ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow his Word right? Did you want to have a go at answering my questions to you now? As posted earlier Rahab was a Caananite prostitute with no knowledge of God,...

LGW, I agree with you as the scriptures identify Rahab as a Caananite harlot, but you said she had NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD. The scripture proves you wrong. man up.

Dear friend please read the context of my posts. "No knowledge of God" was in reference to following and obeying God's laws which was in context to a discussion with your friend who was trying to justify the sin of telling lies. I already posted to you that all the gentile nations knew about God helping ISRAEL to over throw them. Does this also mean in your view that all the gentile nations were following God? Zzzz. Ok 99.

Cribstyl · Jun 14, 2020

Dear friend please read the context of my posts. "No knowledge of God" was in reference to following and obeying God's laws which was in context to a discussion on justifying the sin of telling lies. I already posted to you that all the gentile nations knew about God helping ISRAEL to over throw them. Does this also mean in your view that all the gentile nations were following God? Zzzz. Ok 99.

in the USA we read thing differently. Here you are again saying the same thing about Rahab having no knowledge of God.

"So you follow the code of Hammurabi over the bible? As posted earlier Rahab was a Caananite prostitute with no knowledge of God, His LAW or SIN. "

In my opinion, you're dodging responsibility for your false statements.

Dkh587 · Jun 14, 2020

Cribstyl said:
in the USA we read thing differently. Here you are again saying the same thing about Rahab having no knowledge of God.

"So you follow the code of Hammurabi over the bible? As posted earlier Rahab was a Caananite prostitute with no knowledge of God, His LAW or SIN. "

In my opinion, you're dodging responsibility for your false statements.

Hearing about God delivering the the Israelites out of Egypt does not mean that someone has knowledge of God. Knowledge is understanding - you are arguing a moot point.

LoveGodsWord acknowledges that Rahab heard about God. She did not have knowledge of God, but she had faith.

Proverbs 1:27

The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Rahab having faith in God and saving the spies was the beginning of knowledge. She did not have it.

Andre_b · Jun 14, 2020

klutedavid said:
Not according to the letter to the Romans, Paul was definitely telling people to desert the law.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound...

Notice, Paul does not say; we are now under the law.

Paul said, 'released from the law', no longer bound to the law, dead to the law.

That rumor was true and this explains precisely why, Paul did what he did. If Paul was innocent and lawful, then Paul would not need to do anything.

I win you lose.Where does the text mention 'Nazarite vow'?

A Nazarite vow involves not cutting one's hair. Paul did not take the Nazarite vow, Paul shaved his head.

You are confusing people with 1 lonely verse without reading the rest of the chapter once again or even continue the next verses which refutes your statement directly.

Going back to the topic of this entire thread let's settle this once and for all that the SABBATH IS PART OF THE NEW COVENANT. This is clearly what the scriptures teach.

Confirming the New Covenant
Luke 22:20 "Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."

New Covenant confirmed at his death on the cross by the actual shedding of his blood.

Then after the New Covenant is confirmed Luke CLEARLY records...
Luke 23:56 "Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment."

Since Luke was a good friend of Paul and Paul taught Luke and Luke wrote parts of Acts. There is no way that Luke never clarified himself to say that he Sabbath was part of the old Covenant or old commandment, etc. He would have made it very clear. Yet he did make it very clear the he Sabbath is a commandment still in effect and part of he new covenant because they continued to observe it after Jesus death and no word written that it was a mistake or rebuke...

Certainly since Luke was written at least 20-40 years later, plenty of time to know that the Sabbath is according to the commandment.

Cribstyl · Jun 14, 2020

Dkh587 said:
Hearing about God delivering the the Israelites out of Egypt does not mean that someone has knowledge of God. Knowledge is understanding - you are arguing a moot point.

LoveGodsWord acknowledges that Rahab heard about God. She did not have knowledge of God, but she had faith.

Proverbs 1:27

Rahab having faith in God and saving the spies was the beginning of knowledge. She did not have it.

You just declared that Rahab had faith in God. Whether it was the beginning or end of her faith, who are you to judge? On the other side of your mouth you're saying she did not have knowledge of God.
Tell us, what qualifies as knowing God to you?

From my perspective you're changing the fact to suit your narrative. She did more than just hear that God delivered the Israelites from Egypt. Confessing that God is the God of Heaven and Earth should qualify as knowing something about God.
Try saying, "God of Israel, you're the God of Heaven and Earth." Only someone who thinks they know God better than you would say you don't know God.

Rahab is written in the New testament as someone with real faith. Faith is based on hearing and the word of God (according to Paul) and doing something about your faith (according to James). She passes the test.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 14, 2020

Cribstyl said:
You just declared that Rahab had faith in God. Whether it was the beginning or end of her faith, who are you to judge? On the other side of your mouth you're saying she did not have knowledge of God.
Tell us, what qualifies as knowing God to you?

From my perspective you're changing the fact to suit your narrative. She did more than just hear that God delivered the Israelites from Egypt. Confessing that God is the God of Heaven and Earth should qualify as knowing something about God.
Try saying, "God of Israel, you're the God of Heaven and Earth." Only someone who thinks they know God better than you would say you don't know God.

Rahab is written in the New testament as someone with real faith. Faith is based on hearing and the word of God (according to Paul) and doing something about your faith (according to James). She passes the test.

Your missing the point dear friend and making strawman arguments no one is making. The conversation earlier was about your friend trying to justify the sin of telling lies and stating that sometimes it is ok to tell lies and break God's 9th commandment *EXODUS 20:16 and using Rahab as an example to justify telling lies.

Rahab was a Caananite gentile prostitute that did not know how to follow God or know about God's 10 commandments or telling lies was a sin. According to the scriptures we are only held accountable for sin when we are given a knowledge that something is sin *JAMES 4:17; ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31. She had no knowledge that when she lied she was committing sin and was not held accountable to it.

She heard about how God was with ISRAEL overthrowing the Gentile nations in her region as did all the Gentile nations in this period of time. This does not mean that all the Gentile nations were following God or had faith in God. Rahab made a deal with the spies of ISRAEL and her faith that saved her was in that she believed the spies sent from ISRAEL and that their God would saved her and her family.

HEBREWS 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

She did not know Gods' ways or how to follow God and was not following God by prostitution and telling lies and she had no knowledge of what sin was or God's laws and in times of ignorance God winks at until he gives us a knowledge of the truth at which time calls all men everywhere to believe and follow His Word *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31.

Are you with your friend seriously trying to justify telling lies is ok dear friend? If you are then you are mistaken. What do you think JAMES 4:17 and ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31 mean?

Hope this is helpful. There is no justification for telling lies and breaking God's 9th commandment when we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Andre_b · Jun 14, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Your missing the point dear friend and making strawman arguments no one is making. The conversation earlier was about your friend trying to justify the sin of telling lies and stating that sometimes it is ok to tell lies and break God's 9th commandment *EXODUS 20:16 and using Rahab as an example to justify telling lies.

Rahab was a Caananite gentile prostitute that did not know how to follow God or know about God's 10 commandments or telling lies was a sin. She heard about how God was with ISRAEL overthrowing the Gentile nations in her region. She made a deal with the spies of ISRAEL and her faith was that they and their God would saved her and who family.

HEBREWS 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

She did not know Gods' ways or how to follow God and was not following God by prostitution and telling lies and she had no knowledge of what sin was or God's laws and in times of ignorance God winks at until he gives us a knowledge of the truth at which time calls all men everywhere to believe and follow His Word *ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31.

Are you with your friend seriously trying to try to justify telling lies is ok dear friend? What do you think JAMES 4:17 and ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31 mean?

Well said brother. Rahab could be an example of being saved by faith like the thief on the cross. The FIRST step into becoming a follower of God. Once you learn and come to know God you completely change to love God and with the power of the Spirit of God. You don't continue in your old ways.

klutedavid · Jun 14, 2020

Andre_b said:
You are confusing people with 1 lonely verse without reading the rest of the chapter once again or even continue the next verses which refutes your statement directly.

I would not call the following verse a lonely verse.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound...

Lonely you say?

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Andre_b · Jun 14, 2020

klutedavid said:
I would not call the following verse a lonely verse.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound...

Lonely you say?

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Lol, yes quote many lonely verses. Doesn't prove anything. You need to keep reading and in context, yet you keep posting lonely verses here and there.

Thanks for ignoring the heart of the matter. As usual you ignore, deflect, and quote scriptures that we've already proved you wrong.

Please explain to me how you'll twist Luke's message:
Confirming the New Covenant
Luke 22:20 "Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."

New Covenant confirmed at his death on the cross by the actual shedding of his blood.

Then after the New Covenant is confirmed Luke CLEARLY records...
Luke 23:56 "Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment."

LoveGodsWord · Jun 14, 2020

klutedavid said:
I would not call the following verse a lonely verse.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound...

Lonely you say?

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7:4
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law.

Galatians 2:19
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Ephesians 2:15
By abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.

1 Timothy 1:9
Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Dear David, this is only sent in love and has a help to you.

There is nowhere in the scriptures that teach God's law is abolished. God's law is the very standard of GOOD AND EVL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. I would like to show where your whole argument and premise falls over in your post here. I hope you can receive it in the Spirit in which it is given and this correction may be a help to you...

No one is "UNDER THE LAW" unless they stand before God guilty of breaking the law (SIN). For by the law is the knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20. For example, not being "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19 is in regards to not being under the penalty of God's law (death) because of sin.

Let's look at the contexts from v8-18 These scriptures show the context...

ROMANS 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for WE HAVE BEFORE PROVED BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN;
[10], AS IT IS WRITTEN, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE:
]11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.

The context of v19-20 is that we are all sinners none are rightoues no not one v9 ALL ARE UNDER SIN, all have broken God's LAW because sin is breaking God's LAW (1 John 3:4; James 2:11; Romans 7:7)

ROMANS 3:19-20
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Now v19, in connection with the Context of v9-18 us summing up what has been previously said saying that those who are "UNDER THE LAW" are those who are GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW v9 confirms this saying both JEWS and GENTILES are ALL UNDER SIN, which means we are all GUILTY before GOD of breaking God's LAW.v 19

[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Now how is all this so? WHY? PAUL is saying in v20 FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.

So YEP... to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19-20 means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking it and both JEW and GENTILE are guilty before GOD and need a Saviour.

No one is "UNDER THE LAW" David, if they have repented from their sins and confessed them to God. To be "UNDER THE LAW" means to be under the laws condemnation because of sin (breaking God's law). We are only "UNDER THE LAW" if we stand before God guilty of knowingly breaking the law *JAMES 4:17; ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31.

This is why it is written in the same book further on...

ROMANS 8:1-4 [1], THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT. [2], FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS HAS MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH (Carnal mind) BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT (Word of God)

No where dear friend does it teach in the bible that God's law is not the standard of right and wrong. Your leaving context again David.

May you receive Gods' Word and be blessed dear friend.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 14, 2020

Andre_b said:
Well said brother. Rahab could be an example of being saved by faith like the thief on the cross. The FIRST step into becoming a follower of God. Once you learn and come to know God you completely change to love God and with the power of the Spirit of God. You don't continue in your old ways.

Absolutelty Andre, it is like us all when we are babes we do not know everything about God and his Word and requirements for us as christians. God only holds us accountable for what we know not what we do not know. When he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word he expects us to believe and follow it. If at this stage we reject Gods' Word and choose to continue in sin there remains no mpre sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come.

God bless

klutedavid · Jun 15, 2020

Andre_b said:
Lol, yes quote many lonely verses. Doesn't prove anything. You need to keep reading and in context, yet you keep posting lonely verses here and there.

Thanks for ignoring the heart of the matter. As usual you ignore, deflect, and quote scriptures that we've already proved you wrong.

Please explain to me how you'll twist Luke's message:
Confirming the New Covenant
Luke 22:20 "Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."

New Covenant confirmed at his death on the cross by the actual shedding of his blood.

Then after the New Covenant is confirmed Luke CLEARLY records...
Luke 23:56 "Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment."

Of course they rested on the sabbath because they were under the law. They were Jews living in Jerusalem. If they labored on the Sabbath day they would be stoned to death.

Jesus has not risen yet and the apostles are firmly obedient to the whole law. Any serious breach of the law is death.

Your argument is meaningless.

klutedavid · Jun 15, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Dear David, this is only sent in love and has a help to you.

Gratefully received, your so kind.

There is nowhere in the scriptures that teach God's law is abolished.

May I correct you here.

The law is indeed annulled for the apostles, they no longer obeyed the law. For example; the apostles no longer needed a sacrifice in the temple for their sin. Christ offered the perfect sacrifice. On this legal point alone, the entire law of Moses collapses.

See LGW, God's law is annulled. You threw 600 laws in the bin and then you say, God's law has not been annulled????

God's law is the very standard of GOOD AND EVL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. I would like to show where your whole argument and premise falls over in your post here. I hope you can receive it in the Spirit in which it is given and this correction may be a help to you...

At last I will be delivered.

No one is "UNDER THE LAW" unless they stand before God guilty of breaking the law (SIN). For by the law is the knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20. For example, not being "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19 is in regards to not being under the penalty of God's law (death) because of sin.

The Jews were under the law and the Gentiles were ignorant of Moses.

That's a hard fact that your ignoring.

Let's look at the contexts from v8-18 These scriptures show the context...

ROMANS 3:9-18
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for WE HAVE BEFORE PROVED BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES, THAT THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN;
[10], AS IT IS WRITTEN, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE:
]11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.

The context of v19-20 is that we are all sinners none are rightoues no not one v9 ALL ARE UNDER SIN, all have broken God's LAW because sin is breaking God's LAW (1 John 3:4; James 2:11; Romans 7:7)

ROMANS 3:19-20
[19], Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

I repeat, the Jews were under the law and the Gentiles never knew Moses. The Gentiles never knew anything about YHWH. Your missing the point entirely.

Now v19, in connection with the Context of v9-18 us summing up what has been previously said saying that those who are "UNDER THE LAW" are those who are GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking the LAW v9 confirms this saying both JEWS and GENTILES are ALL UNDER SIN, which means we are all GUILTY before GOD of breaking God's LAW.v 19

All are guilty because all have sinned.

Adam and Eve were guilty as sin but did not break the law of Moses. I will cite Adam and Eve as my example of sinners, found guilty but not due to the law of Moses.

[20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Yes, obedience to the law is weak and useless.

Now how is all this so? WHY? PAUL is saying in v20 FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.

That is for the Jew who was under the law.

So YEP... to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19-20 means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking it and both JEW and GENTILE are guilty before GOD and need a Saviour.

A Gentile cannot be stoned for working on a Jewish Sabbath day. Why is that you might ask? Because the Gentile nations were not in covenant with God and never had the law of Moses.

No one is "UNDER THE LAW" David, if they have repented from their sins and confessed them to God.

So if you repented of your sin, how come you keep sinning?

To be "UNDER THE LAW" means to be under the laws condemnation because of sin (breaking God's law).

No it does not mean that. Jews were under the law and being under the law is different to transgression of the law.

We are only "UNDER THE LAW" if we stand before God guilty of knowingly breaking the law *JAMES 4:17; ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 17:30-31.

Incorrect, Gentiles were never under the law. Gentiles never had any temple law that they could transgress.

Your interpretation is unsound.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 15, 2020

klutedavid said:
The law is indeed annulled for the apostles, they no longer obeyed the law. For example; the apostles no longer needed a sacrifice in the temple for their sin. Christ offered the perfect sacrifice. On this legal point alone, the entire law of Moses collapses.

Not really dear David. Your confusing God's eternal law written on stone with the finger of God with the Mosiac book of the law for remission of sins written by Moses that were shadows of things to come *HEBREWS 10:1-12. According to God's Word not mine the purpose of God's law (10 commandments) in both the old and the new covenants are to give us the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and PSALMS 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. Your disagreeing with JESUS, MATTHEW, MARK LUKE JOHN, PAUL, JAMES, PETER, JOHN, well pretty much all the old and new testament scriptures dear friend that disagree with you. (1. Scripture proof here linked. 2. More scripture proof here and 3. more here linked). There is too much scripture here that disagrees with you dear friend. Does this not concern you? It should.

klutedavid said:
See LGW, God's law is annulled. You threw 600 laws in the bin and then you say, God's law has not been annulled???

Your mixing up your shadow laws dear friend from the Mosaic book of the law pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant (sin offereings, Proesthood, Sanctuary ceremonial laws, feasts) with God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. The shadow laws *HEBREWS 10:1-12 are the ceremonial laws in ordinance fulfilled at the cross. God's Law is in reference to God's eternal law that is the standard of Good and evil, sin and rightouesness which are forever. These words in your post dear friend are your words and as shown in the linked scriptures above are not biblical. Your words here dear friend deny the very words of JESUS, PAUL and JOHN you contradict here...

JESUS....

MATTHEW 5:17-20 [17], THINK NOT THAT I AM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFILL. [18], For truly I say to you, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE STROKE OR ONE PRONUNCIATION MARK SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. [19], WHOEVER THEREFORE SHALL BREAK ONE OF THESE LEAST COMMANDMENTS, AND SHALL TEACH MEN SO, HE SHALL BE CALLED THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN: BUT WHOEVER SHALL DO AND TEACH THEM, THE SAME SHALL BE CALLED GREAT IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. [20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

MATTHEW 5:27-28 [27], You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery: [28], But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

MARK 10:17-19[17], And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
[18], And Jesus said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
[19], You know the commandments, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT KILL, DO N OT STEAL, NO NOT LIE, DEFRAUD NOT, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.

MATTHEW 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? WHEREFORE IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH DAY.

PAUL...

ROMANS 3:31 DO WE ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

ROMANS 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

ROMANS 8:13 [13], FOR IF YOU LIVE AFTER THE FLESH YOU WILL DIE: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

GALATIANS 5:15 WALK IN THE SPIRIT AND YOU WILL NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH.

GALATIANS 5:19-21[19], NOW THE WORKS OF THE FLESH ARE MANIFEST, WHICH ARE THESE; ADULTERY, FORNICATION, UNCLEANNESS, LASCIVIOUSNESS, [20], IDOLATRY, WITCHCRAFT, HATRED, VARIANCE, JEALOUSIES, WRATH, STRIFE, SEDITIONS, HERESIES, [21], CONTENTIONS, MURDERS, DRUNKENNESS, REVELINGS, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

...........

Sorry David it seems God's Word disagres with you and there is too many scriptures to post here....1. Scripture proof here linked. 2. More scripture proof here 3. More scriptures here

klutedavid said:
At last I will be delivered. The Jews were under the law and the Gentiles were ignorant of Moses That's a hard fact that your ignoring.

David we are not delivered from God's Law (10 commandments) by breaking God's LAW.
No one is "UNDER THE LAW" unless they stand before God guilty of breaking the law (SIN). For by the law is the knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20. For example, not being "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19 is in regards to not being under the penalty of God's law (death) because of sin. If we break God's LAW we stand guilty before God under the laws condemnation and if we continue in sin the wages of sin is death because those doing so when they have been given a knowledge of the truth reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. No one enters into God's kingdom by living in known unrepentant sin *HEBREWS 10:26-27.

klutedavid said:
I repeat, the Jews were under the law and the Gentiles never knew Moses. The Gentiles never knew anything about YHWH. Your missing the point entirely.All are guilty because all have sinned.

I am sorry dear friend repeating yourself does not make your words magically come true. All of God's people are under the same laws. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. There is no more JEW and GENTILES as all are one in CHRIST *GALATIANS 3:28-29

klutedavid said:
Adam and Eve were guilty as sin but did not break the law of Moses. I will cite Adam and Eve as my example of sinners, found guilty but not due to the law of Moses.

Nonsense dear friend. Think your argument through. Who could Adam and Eve commit adultery with, steal from, lie to, covet, not honor their parents, murder, have other Gods with (they walked and talked personally with God), make idols to, use God's name in vain and break God's Sabbath he made for them? Can you see how your argument sounds now dear friend?

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Your response...

klutedavid said:
Yes, obedience to the law is weak and useless.

Nonsense. What do you think the scriptures you are quoting from mean?

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Now how is all this so? WHY? PAUL is saying in v20 FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.

Your response here...

klutedavid said:
That is for the Jew who was under the law.

According to God's Word not mine he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 2:28-29; ROMANS 11:13-27. We are in the new testament now dear friend not the old. We are in the Spirit now dear friend not the letter.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ So YEP... to be "UNDER THE LAW" in ROMANS 3:19-20 means to be GUILTY BEFORE GOD of breaking it and both JEW and GENTILE are guilty before GOD and need a Saviour.

Your response here...

klutedavid said:
A Gentile cannot be stoned for working on a Jewish Sabbath day. Why is that you might ask? Because the Gentile nations were not in covenant with God and never had the law of Moses.

We are in the new testament now dear friend not the old. We are in the Spirit now dear friend not the letter. Vengence is now God's. In the new covenent, ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow God's Word *ROMANS 9:6-8. If you are not a part of Gods ISRAEL you have no part in the new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentile believers are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. There are no more JEWS and Gentiles all are one in Christ *ROMANS 2:28-29.

klutedavid said:
So if you repented of your sin, how come you keep sinning?

If we keep living in known unrepentant sin we have not given our sins to JESUS. It is not God's will that we sin but if anyman sins we have an advocate with the father *1 JOHN 2:1-2. We need to be born again and given a new heart to love. Those who are born again do not practice known unrepentant sin *1 JOHN 3:6-9. What gives us victory over sin is faith in God's promises (Word) *2 PETER 1:4; 1 JOHN 5:4. JESUS came to save us and set us free from Sin (breaking God's Law) not for us to continue in sin *JOHN 8:31-36. If we continue in sin we will die *ROMANS 8:13 because we reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Sorry dear friend. I prayerfully ask you may receive this post and scriptures in the spirit it was given David and by doing so receive Gods' blessing.

THE SABBATH TRUTH!

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