Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy.....

Douggg · Jun 12, 2020

eleos1954 said:
whats a "blanket fashion"

That's a fair question to my slang.

What I meant was reference to the arch villain of the end times always as the Antichrist, with the train of thought being that the other labels for the person as the little horn, the beast, the revealed man of sin, the king of fierce countenance,
the willful king, the prince who shall come, as always calling that person the Antichrist in disregard for the functional differences involved.

To do so is a huge error. It would be something like a white house press reporter addressing sitting president Obama in a press conference as "Senator Obama" instead of "President Obama". And then to top it off, to broadcast the error on nightly news as questions to "Senator Obama".

Being senator and being president are two completely different functions.

Chris35 · Jun 12, 2020

Hey dougg, i understand where your coming from, however i believe it is only a part of the picture.

Israel is still waiting for their messiah to turn up, and im sure when he does, israel will go back under moses and animal sacrafices will begin.

However muslims are still waiting for there messiah as well, and certain sects in islam believe that the coming jewish messiah, is the antichrist, and that there messiah is the true messiah and will conquer israel, proving to the world that islam is the true religion.

I cant see islam doing nothing, when the jewish messiah returns, as they believe it is the antichrist and they are chosen to fight with him.

There most likely will be a religious war over the true messiah.

keras · Jun 13, 2020

Douggg said:
keras, this is the sort of statement all to often heard on this forum, not only by you, but some others as well.

You are trying to bully your disagreement, with what is basically a complete untruth, as over many years, I have presented to you multiple bible passages as to why the person will be the King of Israel, perceived messiah by the Jews for awhile and why that is the function of the concept of the Antichrist.

You need to stop that sort of bully tactic. It is unbecoming to you, and everyone else who does it. Make biblically based arguments instead, to things you disagree about.

I make no apology for being critical of false teaching.
You are the worst in ignoring the scriptures that tell of a virtual demise of those who call themselves Jews. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 22:1-14, Jeremiah 10:18, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Romans 9:27, + Sufficiently Bible-based for you?

Many prophesies describe the man of sin, the beast, the wicked one, etc. None say he will play the role of the Jewish Messiah.

And Chris35, the Muslims as well; will be no more after the Lords Day of fiery wrath. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Amos 1, Jeremiah 49:35-37, +

7xlightray · Jun 13, 2020

Douggg said:
To be the Antichrist the person must be a Jew, and be anointed the King of Israel for a short while. So the task is to figure out what the Jews are expecting of the messiah and how the person will appear to them to be the messiah. Judaism 101, things, the mashich is a good place to start. Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah

It should be noted that the little horn, tied to the Roman Empire, is not the Antichrist (albeit the same person)when he is the little horn. The little horn will be the 7th Julio-Claudian king (in that bloodline) of the Roman Empire in the end times, leader of the EU.

After coming into the middle east post Gog/Magog, followed up by his stint as the Antichrist, and after being killed and brought back to life - he becomes the beast (no longer the Antichrist, perceived King of Israel by the Jews, but....) 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire of the end times, dictator of the EU.

That's how the verses are reconciled. Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy..... Know the difference between being the Antichrist, King of Israel (coming in his own name), and being the little horn, then beast, the 7th and 8th King of the Roman Empire.

To be an antichrist, one must deny Christ is a man (came in the flesh, son of David, son of Adam), and to deny He is the Christ, the Son of God.
To deny He is the Christ is to deny He is the Son of God, and to deny He is the Son of God is to deny He is the Christ, for the King of Israel is the Christ, the Son of God, descendant of David.
There are even those that go by "Christian denomination" that deny this. Even though they may say with their lips He is the son of God, or He is the Christ, or He is a man, their theology shows deception, and sin naturally follows.

Douggg · Jun 13, 2020

keras said:
Many prophesies describe the man of sin, the beast, the wicked one, etc. None say he will play the role of the Jewish Messiah.

So the person should not be called the Antichrist when in those non perceived Jewish messiah roles. That's my point.

The role of being the Antichrist is a role unto itself - King of Israel perceived messiah, coming in his own name.

Douggg · Jun 13, 2020

Chris35 said:
Hey dougg, i understand where your coming from, however i believe it is only a part of the picture.

Israel is still waiting for their messiah to turn up, and im sure when he does, israel will go back under moses and animal sacrafices will begin.

However muslims are still waiting for there messiah as well, and certain sects in islam believe that the coming jewish messiah, is the antichrist, and that there messiah is the true messiah and will conquer israel, proving to the world that islam is the true religion.

I cant see islam doing nothing, when the jewish messiah returns, as they believe it is the antichrist and they are chosen to fight with him.

There most likely will be a religious war over the true messiah.

Hi Chris,

The muslim will play a huge role in Gog/Magog - which will take place right before the 7 year 70th week begins. After their defeat, it will essentially be the end of Islam as a religion, even in the eyes of muslims, because it will be discredited by the supernatural destruction of it's armies.

I have studied a lot about the muslim prophecies. Their end times figures are the mahdi (super muslim, considered to be the 12th iman in shia branch of Islam), Isa the muslim portrayal of Jesus, and the dajjal the muslim version of the Antichrist.

The muslim Jesus does not appear, return to the earth, until the Mahdi and his army is in a final battle with the dajjal and his army. Which the battle is at a tilting point, Isa returns and turns the tide in favor of the Mahdi, by killing the dajjal. btw, Isa is supposed to slay all the Christians for saying he is God.

Anyway, in seeing if there was any match ups with the real bible figures - most equate the Mahdi as being the Antichrist, and Isa the false prophet. That leaves who plays the role of the dajjal? There is no person in bible prophecy to match up with the dajjal - which means the Muslim prophecies can't be matched to ever materialize.

There may be a perceived Mahdi figure in the Gog/Magog event. That remains to be seen. But there is not going to be a dajjal, nor a muslim Jesus Isa figure.

What their prophecies appear to have come from is sitting around the campfire, seeing how they could top the sketchy knowledge they had about the real the prophecies of the end times they heard from Christians.

An example of their wild imagination is the dajjal is supposed to have one eye, have a hairy body, and on his fore-head the name Kafir, and ride a giant white mule all over the middle east, traveling at incredible speeds.

And if anyone dared to look at the dajjal, for too long I guess, they become one of his followers.

The bottom line is the muslim prophecies will never materialize as being fulfillment the bible end times prophecy characters, and events.

klutedavid · Jun 13, 2020

Chris35 said:
Hey dougg, i understand where your coming from, however i believe it is only a part of the picture.

Israel is still waiting for their messiah to turn up, and im sure when he does, israel will go back under moses and animal sacrafices will begin.

I don't think the western democracy called Israel is waiting for their messiah. I would guess, that the vast majority of Israel would be secular.

Giving up their democracy, their civil law, health laws, moral laws, e.t.c. To take on an ancient form of religious government, build an ancient temple on the temple mount.

Start all the sacrifices and offerings, reinstall the Levite priesthood. Nearly nine million Jews gathering at the temple to make offerings and sacrifices. Millions of Jews from around the world going back to Israel to start sacrificing also.

Do you really believe this crazy idea?

Douggg · Jun 13, 2020

klutedavid said:
I don't think the western democracy called Israel is waiting for their messiah. I would guess, that the vast majority of Israel would be secular.

Giving up their democracy, their civil law, health laws, moral laws, e.t.c. To take on an ancient form of religious government, build an ancient temple on the temple mount.

Start all the sacrifices and offerings, reinstall the Levite priesthood. Nearly nine million Jews gathering at the temple to make offerings and sacrifices. Millions of Jews from around the world going back to Israel to start sacrificing also.

Do you really believe this crazy idea?

It will be following the Gog/Magog event.

BABerean2 · Jun 13, 2020

Douggg said:
which will take place right before the 7 year 70th week begins.

The most important thing about End-times Bible Prophecy is to quit listening to those attempting to make a man-made doctrine work.

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles. This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the First century.

Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner
(Dr. Varner reveals the New Covenant in Daniel 9)

.

keras · Jun 13, 2020

Douggg said:
It will be following the Gog/Magog event.

The Jewish State of Israel will not exist when Gog attacks.
Ezekiel 38 makes that plain, as the future inhabitants of all of the holy Land, will not have any defenses, they will rely on the Lord for His protection.
The Israelis rely on their own strength; the Samson Option. Isaiah 22:1-14 tells us what will happen to them.

Dave L · Jun 14, 2020

Douggg said:
The Pharisees did not understand it when Jesus said he would raise this temple in three days, pointing to his resurrection. Nor believed it afterward, and bribed the guards of the tomb to lie.

You are going off topic.

How can I be off-topic using the Pharisees with a veil over their eyes, in comparison to those who read scripture the same way they do? It's a perfect illustration.

Douggg · Jun 14, 2020

Dave L said:
How can I be off-topic using the Pharisees with a veil over their eyes, in comparison to those who read scripture the same way they do? It's a perfect illustration.

Dave, this is the topic...

Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy..... Know the difference between being the Antichrist, King of Israel (coming in his own name), and being the little horn, then beast, the 7th and 8th King of the Roman Empire.

You disagreed and presented your different opinion and view. I responded and acknowledged that you are entitled to have a different opinion and view.

Not satisfied, you are going off to another direction that is going to be non-productive because you are making a veiled accusation. Start another thread if you want to.

Dave L · Jun 14, 2020

Douggg said:
Dave, this is the topic...

Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy..... Know the difference between being the Antichrist, King of Israel (coming in his own name), and being the little horn, then beast, the 7th and 8th King of the Roman Empire.

You disagreed and presented your different opinion and view. I responded and acknowledged that you are entitled to have a different opinion and view.

Not satisfied, you are going off to another direction that is going to be non-productive because you are making a veiled accusation. Start another thread if you want to.

This cannot be a starting point. You superimpose it on scripture without having an origin in scripture. You need something like; Jesus taught the Kingdom is spiritual. Therefore all kingdom prophecies cannot be physical but symbols instead. Therefore .... and so on. It's like you pulling things out of thin air and saying here's where we start.....

Douggg · Jun 14, 2020

Dave L said:
This cannot be a starting point. You superimpose it on scripture without having an origin in scripture. You need something like; Jesus taught the Kingdom is spiritual. Therefore all kingdom prophecies cannot be physical but symbols instead. Therefore .... and so on. It's like you pulling things out of thin air and saying here's where we start.....

I did not say "here's where we start". I wrote the number one thing to understanding end time bible prophecy. The starting place is when a person opens up the bible and starts reading.

Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy..... Know the difference between being the Antichrist, King of Israel (coming in his own name), and being the little horn, then beast, the 7th and 8th King of the Roman Empire.

Not out of thin air. Out of the bible.

The little horn person is in Daniel 7, out of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire.

The 7th king of the fourth kingdom, is in Revelation 17:10, who continues a short space, the 42 months of Revelation 13, as the beast 8th king of the fourth empire, Revelation 17:11.

The Antichrist confirms the covenant for 7 years. Moses made it a requirement of all future leaders of Israel to make a speech to the people, from the place of God's choosing, in effect confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant, on a 7 year cycle.

I placed that speech on my chart in the upper right hand corner.

Dave L · Jun 14, 2020

Douggg said:
I did not say "here's where we start". I wrote the number one thing to understanding end time bible prophecy. The starting place is when a person opens up the bible and starts reading.

Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy..... Know the difference between being the Antichrist, King of Israel (coming in his own name), and being the little horn, then beast, the 7th and 8th King of the Roman Empire.

Not out of thin air. Out of the bible.

The little horn person is in Daniel 7, out of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire.

The 7th king of the fourth kingdom, is in Revelation 17:10, who continues a short space, the 42 months of Revelation 13, as the beast 8th king of the fourth empire, Revelation 17:11.

The Antichrist confirms the covenant for 7 years. Moses made it a requirement of all future leaders of Israel to make a speech to the people, from the place of God's choosing, in effect confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant, on a 7 year cycle.

I placed that speech on my chart in the upper right hand corner.

View attachment 278858

You are ignoring the first things. The foundation for understanding.

Douggg · Jun 14, 2020

Dave L said:
You are ignoring the first things. The foundation for understanding.

I have a timeline chart of the 7 year 70th week and you don't.

Dave L · Jun 14, 2020

Douggg said:
I have a timeline chart of the 7 year 70th week and you don't.

Jesus said the kingdom arrived with him. If your chasrt does not say that, you are Palin' around with the Jesuits who set out to deceive you.

Douggg · Jun 14, 2020

Dave L said:
Jesus said the kingdom arrived with him. If your chasrt does not say that, you are Palin' around with the Jesuits who set out to deceive you.

What are you talking about? The Jesuits? Dave, get a grip.

At the time of the little horn,

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

7xlightray · Jun 15, 2020

Douggg said:
To be the Antichrist the person must be a Jew, and be anointed the King of Israel for a short while. So the task is to figure out what the Jews are expecting of the messiah and how the person will appear to them to be the messiah. Judaism 101, things, the mashich is a good place to start. Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah

It should be noted that the little horn, tied to the Roman Empire, is not the Antichrist (albeit the same person)when he is the little horn. The little horn will be the 7th Julio-Claudian king (in that bloodline) of the Roman Empire in the end times, leader of the EU.

After coming into the middle east post Gog/Magog, followed up by his stint as the Antichrist, and after being killed and brought back to life - he becomes the beast (no longer the Antichrist, perceived King of Israel by the Jews, but....) 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire of the end times, dictator of the EU.

That's how the verses are reconciled. Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy..... Know the difference between being the Antichrist, King of Israel (coming in his own name), and being the little horn, then beast, the 7th and 8th King of the Roman Empire.

But the number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy is..

1) Know your God (internal fellowship with the Father and the Son, and cry out to Him for understanding).
2) Know who your God is (2 Thessalonians 2), "you do well".

3) Understanding who Revelation is written to (whether it mentions the word "church" in a particular chapter, or not: bookends Revelation 1:4 to Revelation 22:16 (in the churches), this does not mean it does not mention others, even the 1,000 years applies to the churches understanding the promises of chapters 2 and 3).
4) Understanding certain parts of Revelation 12 and 13, as well as hearing the warnings of chapters 2 and 3 would also be most helpful, and a good start.

5) One other thing that can get you through some barriers which others create, knowing how one should understand Old Testament scripture Hosea 12:10.

Dave L · Jun 15, 2020

Douggg said:
What are you talking about? The Jesuits? Dave, get a grip.

At the time of the little horn,

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Read Daniel as Daniel recorded it and as Jesus proclaimed it. The Pharisees were blinded so they could not understand it.

Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy.....

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