Can anyone undeniably prove Zechariah 14:2-3,12, have already been fulfilled?

sovereigngrace

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Isn't that what satan and billions of angels basically did as well? Was not satan and these billions of angels initially in good standing with God? Did not satan and these billions of angels rebel against God eventually? Was not the paradise satan and these billion of angels dwelling in before they rebelled, a perfect paradise? Did not satan and these billions of angels show their true colors when they rebelled? If satan and these billions of angels could literally be in the presence of God, then literally rebel against God, one can accept that that happened. But if humans were to do something similar, one can't accept that something like that could happen, though?

There is one major problem: Jesus destroys all the wicked and all corruption when He comes. There is no allowance for you to populate the new incorrupt earth with the corrupt or corruption. Multiple climactic Scripture forbids your interpretation of Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 (two verses that you or no Premil has been able to correlate). This is indeed telling! This shows the dubious nature of the Premil doctrine and the precarious nature of their hermeneutics. Premils interpret every text in Scripture through the lense of their opinion of one highly-debated symbolic text in the most figurative book in the Bible (Revelation 20). They insist on a literal interpretation of such despite it been taught nowhere else in Scripture.

Ironically a plain straightforward literal reading of Revelation 19 forbids Premil. It also confirms that we are looking at a series of parallels describing the same intra-Advent period - as elsewhere in Scripture. Contrary to what you allege, Revelation does not reveal some new doctrine or age in between this age and the age to come. It fits in with all other Scripture which splits man's existence into time and eternity.

Revelation 19:11-16 makes clear, And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Verses 17-18 says, I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

If you take this out of the Premil armory there is nothing left. The whole Premil doctrine hangs upon a thin frayed thread. It enjoys no other support in Scripture. It solely and exclusively depends on the correlation and chronology of the Revelation 19-20, which clearly doesn't exist.
 
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shilohsfoal

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I guess we will know soon enough if Zechariah 14:2 is meaning in the literal sense or not. If we hear of women being raped there any time soon, we know to take that verse in the literal sense. But until then, we really don't know for certain one way or the other, IMO.

The king of the north has moved the tabernacle of his palace to Jerusalem(Dan 11:45) and is at present deviding the land(Dan 11:39).
Im expecting soon he will give Israel a host (Dan 11:31). After that we will have 42 months to know if they will or not.
 
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shilohsfoal

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There is one major problem: Jesus destroys all the wicked and all corruption when He comes. There is no allowance for you to populate the new incorrupt earth with the corrupt or corruption. Multiple climactic Scripture forbids your interpretation of Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 (two verses that you or no Premil has been able to correlate). This is indeed telling! This shows the dubious nature of the Premil doctrine and the precarious nature of their hermeneutics. Premils interpret every text in Scripture through the lense of their opinion of one highly-debated symbolic text in the most figurative book in the Bible (Revelation 20). They insist on a literal interpretation of such despite it been taught nowhere else in Scripture.

Ironically a plain straightforward literal reading of Revelation 19 forbids Premil. It also confirms that we are looking at a series of parallels describing the same intra-Advent period - as elsewhere in Scripture. Contrary to what you allege, Revelation does not reveal some new doctrine or age in between this age and the age to come. It fits in with all other Scripture which splits man's existence into time and eternity.

Revelation 19:11-16 makes clear, And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Verses 17-18 says, I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

If you take this out of the Premil armory there is nothing left. The whole Premil doctrine hangs upon a thin frayed thread. It enjoys no other support in Scripture. It solely and exclusively depends on the correlation and chronology of the Revelation 19-20, which clearly doesn't exist.

Jesus actually said he would cast the wicked out of his kingdom when he comes. He didn't say he would cast them out of the world.
There's a difference.
Luke 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was not promised the world. The place where they will dwell has boundaries.
 
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DavidPT

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Read it symbolically and you will be clued in. Read it literally and you won't understand Christian basics.

I fail to see how that might solve verses 16-19, if those verses are meaning post the 2nd coming, rather than prior to the 2nd coming? If there is not a period of time after the 2nd coming, that would mean what is recorded in those verses, it will be like that throughout all eternity.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Probably except for Revelation 20, right? Nothing is literal in that chapter. Especially the thousand years.

There is a literal first resurrection (Revelation 20:5-6) where Christ defeated the grave. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

There is a literal reigning of the dead in Christ now during the intra-Advent period (Rev 20:4). See also Hebrews 12:18, 22-23, Revelation 6:9-10, 7:9-17, 15:1-3).

There is a literal coming of Christ (Revelation 20:11). See also Matthew 24:27, Matthew 26:64, Mark 14:62, Luke 21:26–27, Acts 1:10 and Revelation 1:7, etc, etc.).

There is a literal resurrection/judgment (singular) of all mankind on the last day (Matthew 10:15, 12:36, 16:27, 25:31-46, John 5:21-30, 6:39-44, 54, 10:42, 11:21-27, 12:48, 17:30-32, 24:15, Acts 10:42, 17:30-31, Romans 2:4-8, 14:10-12, 1 Corinthians 3:6-8, 11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:5, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Timothy 4:1-8, 2 Thessalonians 1:5-8, 1 Timothy 5:24, Hebrews 9:27, 10:27, 2 Peter 2:9, 3:7, 1 Peter 4:1-5, 1 John 4:17, and Revelation 19:11, 20:11-15, 22:12).

There is a real conflagration (Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15).

The age to come has no room for "mortals" (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalms 37:9-11, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”
 
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sovereigngrace

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Jesus actually said he would cast the wicked out of his kingdom when he comes. He didn't say he would cast them out of the world.
There's a difference.
Luke 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was not promised the world. The place where they will dwell has boundaries.

So, are any wicked destroyed at His coming? Does anything happen to this earth?

Why did you not address the scripture text that I presented that forbids premillennialism?
 
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Dave L

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I fail to see how that might solve verses 16-19, if those verses are meaning post the 2nd coming, rather than prior to the 2nd coming? If there is not a period of time after the 2nd coming, that would mean what is recorded in those verses, it will be like that throughout all eternity.
Maybe you have the wrong coming?
 
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Dave L

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It's very bad to try to make rape into anything other than what it is and it has nothing to do with Christian symbolism.
If scripture says the women of Jerusalem will be raped then they will. I feel sorry for them and their children. It would have been better had they never conceived. It would have been better had they themselves had never been born.
It's worse to twist scripture.
 
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shilohsfoal

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So, are any wicked destroyed at His coming? Does anything happen to this earth?

Why did you not address the scripture text that I presented that forbids premillennialism?

There are many in his kingdom that will die. There are also many that will be cast out. They will be led away captive beyond Damascus.
All in his kingdom that offends shall be removed.
Matthew 13:41 KJV: The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

This is not about the rest of the world. This is about what happens in his kingdom when he comes. Jerusalem is at the heart of his kingdom and there is where he will stand.

Zechariah 14:4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south.
 
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sovereigngrace

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There are many in his kingdom that will die. There are also many that will be cast out. They will be led away captive beyond Damascus.
All in his kingdom that offends shall be removed.
Matthew 13:41 KJV: The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

This is not about the rest of the world. This is about what happens in his kingdom when he comes. Jerusalem is at the heart of his kingdom and there is where he will stand.

Zechariah 14:4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south.

What qualifies a person to be glorified or destroyed when Jesus comes? Where are all the survivors of the second coming in the NT?
 
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shilohsfoal

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What qualifies a person to be glorified or destroyed when Jesus comes? Where are all the survivors of the second coming in the NT?

Where are all the survivors of what?
Are you speaking of the war of Armegeddon and the survivors of that war?
 
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shilohsfoal

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No, Jesus coming in majesty and glory to punish the wicked.
Jesus doesn't have to punish anyone. The people who are in his kingdom who don't belong to him will flee when he comes.
Jesus comes in the midst of a war called Armeggedon.It is located in Israel but effects all the surrounding nations. All the nations in the promised land will be destroyed or flee. Only those who belong to Christ will survive and remain.
There will be many nuclear weapons used in this war affecting the promised land.So many they will appear as falling stars.
Jesus doesn't need to kill anyone. But he will save those who he has chosen.His elect.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Jesus doesn't have to punish anyone. The people who are in his kingdom who don't belong to him will flee when he comes.
Jesus comes in the midst of a war called Armeggedon.It is located in Israel but effects all the surrounding nations. All the nations in the promised land will be destroyed or flee. Only those who belong to Christ will survive and remain.
There will be many nuclear weapons used in this war affecting the promised land.So many they will appear as falling stars.
Jesus doesn't need to kill anyone. But he will save those who he has chosen.His elect.

You are watching too many Left Behind movies. This has no basis in Scripture.

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

Christ plainly and purposefully advanced these two days, where the righteous were graciously rescued just prior to the full annihilation of the wicked, in order to vividly portray the nature and scope of the day of His wrath at the second coming. He deliberates and graphically connected the happenings of both these former days of judgment to the day of His return. Jesus succinctly said, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed” (Luke 17:30).

After speaking of the “days of Noe” and the “days of Lot,” the Lord then describes a singular “day” when the righteous were rescued and the wicked were destroyed. Whilst the Lord presents the rebellion and debauchery that preceded both of these judgments as a sign of how things will exist prior to the day of His all-consummating appearing, the main focus of His teaching relates to the focus and scale of the wrath which did fall on these two solemn days of destruction and how they accurately reflect what will happen at the second coming. Both individually and jointly, they supply us with a stunning insight into the nature of the actual day that Christ’s returns and to the days that precede His glorious Second Coming. In their substance and importance these two Old Testament days are distinct and unique. And whilst the nature of the judgment and geographical extent of both appreciably varies, brought-together, they graphically represent (1) the type of catastrophe coming, and (2) the scale of the destruction at the end. Scripture nowhere separates in time the gathering of the Lord's people to Himself with the destruction of the wicked.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3 confirms this saying: “we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this Coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.

II Thessalonians 1:4-10 records: “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire (1) taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2) When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

The Holy Spirit could hardly have made this more water-tight: men either know God or they don't. To know God is eternal life (John 17:3). This was also the case in Noah and Lot's day. Nothing has changed. If humans know Him, they are rescued at His return, if they do not know Him, they are destroyed. Simple! Premils have no problems with this reality when it comes to Noah and Lot's day. They only get awkward and pedantic when it comes to the second coming, because it negates their doctrine. They feel the need to diminish the scale and timing of the destruction in order to populate their alleged future millennial earth.

Hebrews 10:27 says, “a certain fearful looking for (or expectation) of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”

Revelation 19:11-16 declares: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” What is the result of this act? It shall “smite the nations” that have missed the catching away. This is what awaits the nations. They are going to be smitten. The word for “smite” in this text is the Greek word patasso, which means to strike with a weapon or to smite fatally. It means to smite down, cut down, to kill, slay.

Let us be clear: He is Coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

The two words interpreted “fierceness” and “wrath” here are thumos and orge which are regularly employed in the New Testament to mean ‘fierceness, indignation, wrath and vengeance’. The word orge carries the additional meaning of ‘violent passion’. Clearly the Lord is not happy with those left behind. Like those left behind in Noah’s day and Sodom they face an awful end, as they receive the reward of their rejection of Christ.

Verses 17-18 says, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!
 
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shilohsfoal

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You are watching too many Left Behind movies. This has no basis in Scripture.

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

Christ plainly and purposefully advanced these two days, where the righteous were graciously rescued just prior to the full annihilation of the wicked, in order to vividly portray the nature and scope of the day of His wrath at the second coming. He deliberates and graphically connected the happenings of both these former days of judgment to the day of His return. Jesus succinctly said, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed” (Luke 17:30).

After speaking of the “days of Noe” and the “days of Lot,” the Lord then describes a singular “day” when the righteous were rescued and the wicked were destroyed. Whilst the Lord presents the rebellion and debauchery that preceded both of these judgments as a sign of how things will exist prior to the day of His all-consummating appearing, the main focus of His teaching relates to the focus and scale of the wrath which did fall on these two solemn days of destruction and how they accurately reflect what will happen at the second coming. Both individually and jointly, they supply us with a stunning insight into the nature of the actual day that Christ’s returns and to the days that precede His glorious Second Coming. In their substance and importance these two Old Testament days are distinct and unique. And whilst the nature of the judgment and geographical extent of both appreciably varies, brought-together, they graphically represent (1) the type of catastrophe coming, and (2) the scale of the destruction at the end. Scripture nowhere separates in time the gathering of the Lord's people to Himself with the destruction of the wicked.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3 confirms this saying: “we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this Coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.

II Thessalonians 1:4-10 records: “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire (1) taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2) When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

The Holy Spirit could hardly have made this more water-tight: men either know God or they don't. To know God is eternal life (John 17:3). This was also the case in Noah and Lot's day. Nothing has changed. If humans know Him, they are rescued at His return, if they do not know Him, they are destroyed. Simple! Premils have no problems with this reality when it comes to Noah and Lot's day. They only get awkward and pedantic when it comes to the second coming, because it negates their doctrine. They feel the need to diminish the scale and timing of the destruction in order to populate their alleged future millennial earth.

Hebrews 10:27 says, “a certain fearful looking for (or expectation) of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”

Revelation 19:11-16 declares: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” What is the result of this act? It shall “smite the nations” that have missed the catching away. This is what awaits the nations. They are going to be smitten. The word for “smite” in this text is the Greek word patasso, which means to strike with a weapon or to smite fatally. It means to smite down, cut down, to kill, slay.

Let us be clear: He is Coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

The two words interpreted “fierceness” and “wrath” here are thumos and orge which are regularly employed in the New Testament to mean ‘fierceness, indignation, wrath and vengeance’. The word orge carries the additional meaning of ‘violent passion’. Clearly the Lord is not happy with those left behind. Like those left behind in Noah’s day and Sodom they face an awful end, as they receive the reward of their rejection of Christ.

Verses 17-18 says, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!


OK Armegeddon will be totally destroyed.

Revelation 16:16 And they assembled the kings in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

I don't live anywhere around Armegeddon and I'm not going to worry about the beast or the false prophet being killed there.I think I will just stick around where I am thank you.

In fact, I think I will just watch the president of my own country destroy them all.

Daniel 11:44 But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.

We have the best weapons money can buy.
 
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keras

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This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!
This is not correct.
Obviously there will be many alive when Jesus Returns, Paul refers to them in 1 Thess 2:4...we who remain.... Who I think will be mostly those faithful Christians who were kept in a place of safety during the GT, Rev 12:14

As for the OP, Zechariah 14, is surely not yet fulfilled.
Verses 1-2 refers to the time when the AC and his army conquers the holy people. As described by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7.
The half of the people who leave are the ones who kept their faith in God, Daniel 11:32, they will be relocated by God to the other side of the world and the disasters of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will not affect them. Revelation 12:6
But those who did accept the treaty with the leader of the OWG, by then revealed as
the Anti-Christ; as Satan, must remain. They will be persecuted, as prophesied in Revelation 12:17 and Zechariah 14:2a.
 
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keras

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We have the best weapons money can buy.
Unfortunately America will lose its strength in the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Just try to imagine how it will be when all electrical systems are destroyed. Irreparably burned out and gone, from the generators to cell phones; all wiped out.
Jeremiah 50:23 See how the hammer of the whole world is smashed and broken, how 'Babylon' has become a desolation....
'hammer of the whole world; The policeman of the world, The United States of America. Isaiah 18:1-7 also prophesies this.
'Babylon', a metaphor for an ungodly and apostate nation. Which applies to every nation today.
 
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shilohsfoal

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Unfortunately America will lose its strength in the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath. Just try to imagine how it will be when all electrical systems are destroyed. Irreparably burned out and gone, from the generators to cell phones; all wiped out.
Jeremiah 50:23 See how the hammer of the whole world is smashed and broken, how 'Babylon' has become a desolation....
'hammer of the whole world; The policeman of the world, The United States of America. Isaiah 18:-7 also prophesies this.
'Babylon', a metaphor for an ungodly and apostate nation. Which applies to every nation today.

Babylon the great is a city that sits on seven hills.
The USA does not.As to what city is hammering its neighbors. It's Jerusalem

Revelation 11:6 These witnesses have power to shut the sky so that no rain will fall during the days of their prophecy, and power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they wish.
 
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keras

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Babylon the great is a city that sits on seven hills.
The USA does not.As to what city is hammering its neighbors. It's Jerusalem
Actually the original Babylon was built beside or over the river Euphrates. It is Rome that is built over 7 hills.
My quote of Jeremiah 50:23 doesn't refer to a city, but a nation.

Your dislike of prophesies that spell disaster for America is understandable, but who are you to just discount them?
 
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