THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

We made it!

agapelove said:

We made it!

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The Party of all parties is so "lame" it will take your breath away. It will leave you so filled with wonder of Him, it will reduce you to exclaim "why have I attended such mundane parties for so long?"

Shrewd Manager said:

Because, my dear friend, the rebelliousness and wickedness are destroyed. They are then repentant and cleansed of their sin, just as the prophet Isaiah was 'destroyed' Strong's Hebrew: 1820. דָּמָה (damah) -- to cease, cause to cease, cut off, destroy by uncleanness before the presence of the Lord, and then how he is cleansed by the holy fire:

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am destroyed; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. (Is 6:5-7)

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It seems, perhaps, Thomas Talbott (& others?) have a similar view of 2 Thess.1:9 in this thread:

II Thessalonians 1:9: Part II

Such as in posts 1,5 & 6.

Also this discussion may be of interest, particularly this post by Jason Pratt:

II Thessalonians 1:8-9

Tom Talbott said:

"I have addressed this question so many times over recent decades that you will forgive me, I hope, if I try to save time by copying a previously composed response. Here is what I wrote in the second edition of The Inescapable Love of God, page 194:"

" “But if our salvation is guaranteed from the beginning and guaranteed no matter what choices we make in the present, then where is the incentive, many would ask, to repent and to enter into communion with God? Why not just keep on sinning if we are going to be saved anyway? That very question, however, betrays a terrible confusion, and Paul himself, I might add, exposed a similar confusion when his interlocutor had asked: ‘Should we continue in sin in order that grace may abound?’ (Rom 6:1). Nor did Paul ever reject the assumption behind the question: namely, that the more we sin, the more grace will indeed abound. To the contrary, he endorsed this very assumption when he wrote [two verses earlier]: ‘where sin increased, grace abounded all the more’ (Rom 5:20). Not in a million, or a billion, or even a trillion years could our sins ever out-duel the grace of God." "


" “So why, then, did Paul answer his own question, correctly, with his characteristic ‘By no means’? He did so because of his firm conviction that sin is utterly irrational and utterly contrary to our own best interest. For how, he in effect asked, could those who have ‘died to sin’ and therefore understand its true nature continue to sin (6:2)? Is not sin (or anything that separates us from God) precisely the problem, the very thing making our lives miserable? That the pain I experience when I thrust my hand into a flame may serve a beneficial purpose—because it enables me to avoid an even greater injury in the future—hardly entails that I have a good reason to thrust my hand into the flame again and again. And similarly, that the misery and discontent that sin brings into a life can serve a redemptive purpose—because it can provide in the end a compelling motive to repent—hardly implies that one has a good reason to keep on sinning and to continue making oneself more and more miserable in the process.” "

How to Read the Bible from a Universalist Perspective

agapelove said:

Even when God kills, it is for a redemptive purpose.

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Say for instance a serial killer was on the loose, he was cornered by the police, got into a shootout and died. Do you still believe he would be redeemed by the Lord although he eveidently died in a state of sin?

Shrewd Manager said:

Idk why non-universalists can't seem to grasp that REPENTANCE IS 100% NECESSARY FOR SALVATION under UR. But nonetheless, all are freely justified by Christ's work at Calvary - 'Forgive them for they know not what they do.'

So you could cast it systematically that ALL are justified without repentance, but to be sanctified and make the Book of Life, we all need cleansing/ purification/ overcoming, which is done through repentance. Then the healing.



Not quite. You need to read it in context. God says in Rev 21:5 - Behold, I am making all things new.

That's when the reprobates go into the Lake of Fire (20:15 and 21:8), and then heaven comes to earth in the form of the New Jerusalem.

Next the nations and kings of the earth come in through the ever-open Pearly Gates to bring their honour and glory to the throne (21:24-26). Then the healing of the nations 22:2b and the lifting of the curse (22:3).

Then John returns from the vision to earth in Rev 22:6-11. So that refers to the HERE AND NOW.

Then we get Jesus' words in Rev 22:14-15:

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Ok, that's clear - no cleansing and repentance, no entry. Stay out if you like evil.

But then? Rev 22:17: The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

They are ENCOURAGED to overcome. That's OUR JOB. Not to condemn them and leave them for dead in the LoF, but to be good neighbors and fishers of men. What do you think - we forget all that stuff?

Do you see, my friend?

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This is what Satan said, "Thou shalt not surely die". I am praying that the Lord will show you the error in your interpertation. This is spiritualism. The Lord said you will surely die and Satan said you won't. Who do you believe? God doesn't contradict himself. There is only one way to everlasting life and that is by the blood of Christ and the turning away of sins by forsaking them today.

Shrewd Manager said:

Exactly. We are in accord. Mercy boasteth over judgment in the OT, as elsewhere.



Sterling!



Agreed. The doctor comes for the sick, the healthy have no need. And it is only when ppl are exposed to the truth of their sin in the presence of God by the gospel truth that they really understand. Salvation is and remains a work of God, does it not?

This is what the lake of fire is all about. God's judgments are righteous, they are for SETTING RIGHT, not getting even.

Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. (Rev 15:4)

Seems we concur on most points, but why then do you lack faith that God can bring all men to repentance (whether in this world or the next)?

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God can bring all men to repentance while they are here and now. He won't give people a second chance to get it right. If they don't want to obey now, they will not want to do it then. If they break Gods law now, they will have that same mindset in the new Jerusalem. Think about the people of God in the wilderness. They seen his glory and all of his power but still rebelled. They tempted him time and time again, do you believe they will all of a sudden have a change of heart in the earth made anew?

BrotherD said:

This is what Satan said, "Thou shalt not surely die". I am praying that the Lord will show you the error in your interpertation. This is spiritualism. The Lord said you will surely die and Satan said you won't. Who do you believe? God doesn't contradict himself. There is only one way to everlasting life and that is by the blood of Christ and the turning away of sins by forsaking them today.

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Unfortunately that's a complete non sequitur my friend. I've exegeted the final vision of the Revelation of St John for you. Now, if you want to present a coherent alternative reading of those passages, by all means please proceed.

The serpent's lie to Eve does not advance your case. Of course death is sin's wages. And sin starts when we are tempted away and break the relationship of perfect trust with God. But God's purpose is to restore that relationship. Through Christ crucified, God reconciles the world to Him, Christ pays sin out and overcomes death. Which reveals the divine destiny of life for mankind, and in abundance. Those who reject life will be hurt by the second death, and saved, but only as through fire. As God renews all, The nations undeniably re-appear after the fire to bring their honour to the throne and for healing, in fulfilment of the promise of the church and synagogue in Rev 15:4 and the promises and prophecies that saturate the Bible from Gen 22:18 until the curse is finally removed in Rev 22:3.

So why be miserly with God's gifts and cling to a stultifying theology? Peace, grace and blessings to all multiplied.

BrotherD said:

Think about the people of God in the wilderness.

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These rebellious elements stand for those internal parts of each man that remain bound to sin.

BrotherD said:

They tempted him time and time again, do you believe they will all of a sudden have a change of heart in the earth made anew?

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As they were destroyed in the wilderness, so too will the tares within each sinner be purged by the divine fire.

God makes ALL THINGS new. That means sinners get converted to saints with the help of the purifying grace of the lake of fire and the encouragement of the Spirit and the bride.

BrotherD said:

Say for instance a serial killer was on the loose, he was cornered by the police, got into a shootout and died. Do you still believe he would be redeemed by the Lord although he eveidently died in a state of sin?

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All is not reconciled to God until every last person repents for their sins. In the perfect justice system, every criminal will enter in and come back out fully reformed, making peace with their victims and committing their new life to serving God and serving others. That is what I consider "redeemed" by the Lord.

This topic is actually really peaceful now and I think universalism is a good way to act toward people. To be that light, to love and remember who died for us to be forgiven also died for the sins of everyone we need to forgive.

I don’t need a theology of it, to see the beauty there. It’s shalom.

agapelove said:

All is not reconciled to God until every last person repents for their sins. In the perfect justice system, every criminal will enter in and come back out fully reformed, making peace with their victims and committing their new life to serving God and serving others. That is what I consider "redeemed" by the Lord.

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Dear Agape: Our Father has declared in both Testaments that every knee will bow to Him! Lest anyone should think for a nano-second this is out of constraint, needs to contemplate the wee koine word IN/EN.

This worship of every being in every dimension of Father's World is out of union with Him & in His Name!

What is Christian Universalism?

God is working to meet and correct some awful fall.

This is precisely what the Restitution of our Abba is about.

The Second Death & The Restitution Of All Things.

The complete book below >>>>

https://tentmaker.org/books/Restitut…utionindex.htm

TLC - "Christ Triumphant", by Thomas Allin

The Author & Finisher is working to meet & correct some awful fall.