As a doubter, am I already damned?

blackhole · Jun 9, 2020

I know that there are figures in the Bible who doubted and yet were saved. However, I suspect that my doubt goes well beyond their doubts, except maybe not Thomas' doubt, but perhaps he wasn't saved until after he received his evidence.

I've been a Christian for 15 years.

My situation is this: Lately, I've spent an incredible amount of time trying to prove to myself that I have a very strong foundation for believing in Christianity. Unfortunately, that pursuit has pretty consistently led me to evidence which is stronger against Christianity rather than for it. Right now, I'd say that I believe there's only about a 10-20% chance that Jesus is who he claimed to be.

But I'm still searching, because that answer is sickening; it's intolerable. I will be extremely unhappy if I must live without the Christian god; my life would be utterly pointless.

So I hope that as I gather more information, my 10-20% estimate will increase.

Strangely, I never realized until now that I am very sincere in my desire to have God. There is nothing I want more. What I've done is essentially this: I recognized that my mind is fragile; we all make errors in reasoning. I can't count on myself to come to the evidence that would make me believe the Christian claims are probable. Thus, I've pleaded with God, very very sincerely, that if he exists, he would lead me to the evidence I need. And I also acknowledged that I can't lose my salvation, and given that my heart longs for nothing more than for this God to be real, it seems that I certainly have had salvation. Thus he will surely draw me back, right? That is, if he exists at all?

My questions are these: First, am I already damned, because I think it's much more probable that his claims were false than I do that they were true? Note: I have not rejected him. I just have strong doubts. Second, my comments about sincerity and relying on God to bring me to the evidence -- am I correct? If God is real, will he draw me back?

Note: Please do not respond by telling me that I need to have faith. Blind faith is useless, and I don't see such an idea defended by scripture. Moreover, blind faith can be used to defend the claim of any religion. Muslims can say that I just need to have faith. Christians can say it. So how do I choose between them? You have to appeal to something more than only faith.

Aussie Pete · Jun 9, 2020

blackhole said:
I know that there are figures in the Bible who doubted and yet were saved. However, I suspect that my doubt goes well beyond their doubts, except maybe not Thomas' doubt, but perhaps he wasn't saved until after he received his evidence.

I've been a Christian for 15 years.

My situation is this: Lately, I've spent an incredible amount of time trying to prove to myself that I have a very strong foundation for believing in Christianity. Unfortunately, that pursuit has pretty consistently led me to evidence which is stronger against Christianity rather than for it. Right now, I'd say that I believe there's only about a 10-20% chance that Jesus is who he claimed to be.

But I'm still searching, because that answer is sickening; it's intolerable. I will be extremely unhappy if I must live without the Christian god; my life would be utterly pointless.

So I hope that as I gather more information, my 10-20% estimate will increase.

Strangely, I never realized until now that I am very sincere in my desire to have God. There is nothing I want more. What I've done is essentially this: I recognized that my mind is fragile; we all make errors in reasoning. I can't count on myself to come to the evidence that would make me believe the Christian claims are probable. Thus, I've pleaded with God, very very sincerely, that if he exists, he would lead me to the evidence I need. And I also acknowledged that I can't lose my salvation, and given that my heart longs for nothing more than for this God to be real, it seems that I certainly have had salvation. Thus he will surely draw me back, right? That is, if he exists at all?

My questions are these: First, am I already damned, because I think it's much more probable that his claims were false than I do that they were true? Note: I have not rejected him. I just have strong doubts. Second, my comments about sincerity and relying on God to bring me to the evidence -- am I correct? If God is real, will he draw me back?

Note: Please do not respond by telling me that I need to have faith. Blind faith is useless, and I don't see such an idea defended by scripture. Moreover, blind faith can be used to defend the claim of any religion. Muslims can say that I just need to have faith. Christians can say it. So how do I choose between them? You have to appeal to something more than only faith.

Faith has to be the most misunderstood concept. Faith is nothing without hope. That's why faith and hope, along with love, are eternal. People say, "Have faith!" Sure, but in what? Hope is the object of faith, like a mould as someone has said. The Bible says that faith is spiritual eyesight. If you will lay aside your own reasoning, seek God diligently, He will open up His word to you. Quit looking to the world to inform you. The world is controlled by Satan. You may be sure that he will do his best to blind and confuse you. Study the Bible. Stay away from the Old Testament until you are established in real faith.

Be honest with God as you are with us. That is the key to getting God's help. I'd start with the gospel of John, which was written so that we might believe. Ask God to open your eyes. He is well able. Look up Bayless Conley. He has a great testimony and he loves people.

blackhole · Jun 9, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Faith has to be the most misunderstood concept. Faith is nothing without hope. That's why faith and hope, along with love, are eternal. People say, "Have faith!" Sure, but in what? Hope is the object of faith, like a mould as someone has said. The Bible says that faith is spiritual eyesight. If you will lay aside your own reasoning, seek God diligently, He will open up His word to you. Quit looking to the world to inform you. The world is controlled by Satan. You may be sure that he will do his best to blind and confuse you. Study the Bible. Stay away from the Old Testament until you are established in real faith.

Be honest with God as you are with us. That is the key to getting God's help. I'd start with the gospel of John, which was written so that we might believe. Ask God to open your eyes. He is well able. Look up Bayless Conley. He has a great testimony and he loves people.

Any other religion could make the same claim: Don't reason, just seek.

You have to offer something that makes Christianity more likely than any other religion.

Aussie Pete · Jun 9, 2020

blackhole said:
Any other religion could make the same claim: Don't reason, just seek.

You have to offer something that makes Christianity more likely than any other religion.

The reason is very simple. It's true.

blackhole · Jun 9, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
The reason is very simple. It's true.

Islamists say exactly the same thing.

You're making a truth claim without giving any evidence for what's true. That's bold.

Conclusive · Jun 10, 2020

Beyond looking at the bible and the person of Jesus, Christians base their beliefs on one main assumption, the idea of sin. For anyone to begin to go down the road of religion, they must understand that something is wrong, and life isn't just fine the way it is. Because you are asking questions about the sincerity of different religions I am going to assume that you have already come to this conclusion. If you don't have any unhappiness with your current person or you don't believe in the damning effects of sin please tell me so we can step back a bit to discuss that. But back to the matter of sin. Sin is the evil in this world, and religions are generally a way for people to step over this roadblock of sin so they can be assured of eternal life... But in what ways do different religions claim to overcome the obstacle of sin? Islam is a bit tricky with this as in the Quran it shares different methods of salvation. While in Quran 7:6-9 we learn that salvation can be achieved through good deeds, but in Quran 57:22 we learn that Allah has already determined everyone's destiny. Here salvation is a throw up with no security. And even with good works I would extensively argue that doing good deeds will never counteract your sinful behaviors, as even the good that we do is tainted with selfishness and sin. Hinduism teaches that karma (good vs bad deeds) determines your fate, and in the past the caste system has been a big portion on who could be declared to be finished the cycle of reincarnation. Buddhism doesn't really counteract the idea of sin that much, as you follow the different paths of enlightenment and superiority. Only the Christian argument can correctly explain the moral compass that we all have, and how sin can truly be conquered.

The Christian argument (a Christian argument) goes as the following. Man has sinned (Gen 3), man must pay for his sin (he must be judged), the only way he can pay for his sin is by enduring eternal judgement (so that justice is found). But with sin came a promise from God of redemption (Gen 3:15), he sent his son (who was fully God) in the form of a man (who was fully man) who was the Christ. He died on the cross bearing the full weight of the wrath of God (which man would normally endure hell trying to pay) therefore paying our debt and freeing us from the punishments that it entailed. Only a man could pay for sin but no mere man could withstand the wrath of God, therefore Christ Jesus had to be the sacrificial lamb. Christ's righteousness was then imputed to us as our sin was imputed to him so that we may be declared righteous by our just God.

I don't think that other religions have any real method in which to overcome sin. Their propositions are false in nature as there is no actual way in which salvation can be achieved. Even when you try to do good things you still can feel your sinful tendencies coming forth. Good things don't make up for bad things as nothing that we do is good... I think that sums up my argument on the grounds of salvation. Aside from Christ's life, you can also use the argument of creation, or the argument of morality to prove the existence of God, a God you know deep down makes sense. I don't know what research you have been doing in your questioning phase but I implore you to make sure that the information you're inhaling is true and not biased.

blackhole · Jun 10, 2020

Conclusive said:
Beyond looking at the bible and the person of Jesus, Christians base their beliefs on one main assumption, the idea of sin. For anyone to begin to go down the road of religion, they must understand that something is wrong, and life isn't just fine the way it is. Because you are asking questions about the sincerity of different religions I am going to assume that you have already come to this conclusion. If you don't have any unhappiness with your current person or you don't believe in the damning effects of sin please tell me so we can step back a bit to discuss that. But back to the matter of sin. Sin is the evil in this world, and religions are generally a way for people to step over this roadblock of sin so they can be assured of eternal life... But in what ways do different religions claim to overcome the obstacle of sin? Islam is a bit tricky with this as in the Quran it shares different methods of salvation. While in Quran 7:6-9 we learn that salvation can be achieved through good deeds, but in Quran 57:22 we learn that Allah has already determined everyone's destiny. Here salvation is a throw up with no security. And even with good works I would extensively argue that doing good deeds will never counteract your sinful behaviors, as even the good that we do is tainted with selfishness and sin. Hinduism teaches that karma (good vs bad deeds) determines your fate, and in the past the caste system has been a big portion on who could be declared to be finished the cycle of reincarnation. Buddhism doesn't really counteract the idea of sin that much, as you follow the different paths of enlightenment and superiority. Only the Christian argument can correctly explain the moral compass that we all have, and how sin can truly be conquered.

The Christian argument (a Christian argument) goes as the following. Man has sinned (Gen 3), man must pay for his sin (he must be judged), the only way he can pay for his sin is by enduring eternal judgement (so that justice is found). But with sin came a promise from God of redemption (Gen 3:15), he sent his son (who was fully God) in the form of a man (who was fully man) who was the Christ. He died on the cross bearing the full weight of the wrath of God (which man would normally endure hell trying to pay) therefore paying our debt and freeing us from the punishments that it entailed. Only a man could pay for sin but no mere man could withstand the wrath of God, therefore Christ Jesus had to be the sacrificial lamb. Christ's righteousness was then imputed to us as our sin was imputed to him so that we may be declared righteous by our just God.

I don't think that other religions have any real method in which to overcome sin. Their propositions are false in nature as there is no actual way in which salvation can be achieved. Even when you try to do good things you still can feel your sinful tendencies coming forth. Good things don't make up for bad things as nothing that we do is good... I think that sums up my argument on the grounds of salvation. Aside from Christ's life, you can also use the argument of creation, or the argument of morality to prove the existence of God, a God you know deep down makes sense. I don't know what research you have been doing in your questioning phase but I implore you to make sure that the information you're inhaling is true and not biased.

Huh? I'm not questioning the sincerity (I think you mean validity) of other religions.

The cosmological argument, at best, only proves a deity. It doesn't prove the Christian deity.

Morality? That's tough. I think that our moral compass most aligns with the dominant religion of whichever nation we were raised in.

You also used gaslighting by telling me what I "know deep down."

Blood Bought 1953 · Jun 10, 2020

Christianity is NOT a

blackhole said:
Huh? I'm not questioning the sincerity (I think you mean validity) of other religions.

The cosmological argument, at best, only proves a deity. It doesn't prove the Christian deity.

Morality? That's tough. I think that our moral compass most aligns with the dominant religion of whichever nation we were raised in.

You also used gaslighting by telling me what I "know deep down."

Christianity is not a religion.....all religions concentrate on what man can do for God ...Christianity is ALL about what God has done for man and whether you Believe it or not....One can’t choose Christianity from among religions like one would chose a brand of cereal .....God Choses you! “ NO MAN comes to God , lest the Spirit draw him”. Sorry, but the initiative belongs to God- not you!

The Gospel Of Jesus , preached by Paul ( 1Cor15:1-4 ) says if you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave , you will be saved........One must hear that Gospel and Believe that Gospel in order to be Saved ...God is the One that gives you “ ears to hear” . HE is the One that must open your heart to receive the Truth .Ask God to be Merciful to you and open your heart to believe the Gospel ......”Anybody that asks for Mercy shall receive it”” Start there.God Bless .....

blackhole · Jun 10, 2020

Blood Bought 1953 said:
Christianity is NOT a

Christianity is not a religion.....all religions concentrate on what man can do for God ...Christianity is ALL about what God has done for man and whether you Believe it or not....One can’t choose Christianity from among religions like one would chose a brand of cereal .....God Choses you! “ NO MAN comes to God , lest the Spirit draw him”. Sorry, but the initiative belongs to God- not you!

The Gospel Of Jesus , preached by Paul ( 1Cor15:1-4 ) says if you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave , you will be saved........One must hear that Gospel and Believe that Gospel in order to be Saved ...God is the One that gives you “ ears to hear” . HE is the One that must open your heart to receive the Truth .Ask God to be Merciful to you and open your heart to believe the Gospel ......”Anybody that asks for Mercy shall receive it”” Start there.God Bless .....

So you're saying I'm damned and I can't even change it. Well, reality sucks for me.

Tolworth John · Jun 10, 2020

blackhole said:
evidence which is stronger against Christianity rather than for it. Right now, I'd say that I believe there's only about a 10-20% chance that Jesus is who he claimed to be.

Interesting that you give no evidence for your belief about Jesus.
Have you heard of Lee Strobel and his book and film the case for Christ. In it he talks to national experts about every aspect of did Jesus exist etc.
Then there is William Warner of coldcasechristianity, anatheist detective who used his detective skills on the case of Jesus.
Again there is William lain Craig and his reasonable faith web site.

Equally there is answersingenesis or creation.com both major on the authority of the bible and have articles defending the bible.

May I make a suggestion.
If you are going to investigate Christianity start by reading from acknowledge Christian experts, start by talking to your minister and go from there.

blackhole said:
I already damned, because I think it's much more probable that his claims were false than I do that they were true?

Having doubts or questions is perfect acceptable, so long as you are looking for answers.

Try this video of a debate:-
William Lane Craig lectures on the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus

blackhole · Jun 10, 2020

Tolworth John said:
Interesting that you give no evidence for your belief about Jesus.
Have you heard of Lee Strobel and his book and film the case for Christ. In it he talks to national experts about every aspect of did Jesus exist etc.
Then there is William Warner of coldcasechristianity, anatheist detective who used his detective skills on the case of Jesus.
Again there is William lain Craig and his reasonable faith web site.

Equally there is answersingenesis or creation.com both major on the authority of the bible and have articles defending the bible.

May I make a suggestion.
If you are going to investigate Christianity start by reading from acknowledge Christian experts, start by talking to your minister and go from there.

Having doubts or questions is perfect acceptable, so long as you are looking for answers.

Try this video of a debate:-
William Lane Craig lectures on the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus

Thank you for giving a reasonable reply.

GPendu · Jun 10, 2020

blackhole said:
I know that there are figures in the Bible who doubted and yet were saved. However, I suspect that my doubt goes well beyond their doubts, except maybe not Thomas' doubt, but perhaps he wasn't saved until after he received his evidence.

I've been a Christian for 15 years.

My situation is this: Lately, I've spent an incredible amount of time trying to prove to myself that I have a very strong foundation for believing in Christianity. Unfortunately, that pursuit has pretty consistently led me to evidence which is stronger against Christianity rather than for it. Right now, I'd say that I believe there's only about a 10-20% chance that Jesus is who he claimed to be.

But I'm still searching, because that answer is sickening; it's intolerable. I will be extremely unhappy if I must live without the Christian god; my life would be utterly pointless.

So I hope that as I gather more information, my 10-20% estimate will increase.

Strangely, I never realized until now that I am very sincere in my desire to have God. There is nothing I want more. What I've done is essentially this: I recognized that my mind is fragile; we all make errors in reasoning. I can't count on myself to come to the evidence that would make me believe the Christian claims are probable. Thus, I've pleaded with God, very very sincerely, that if he exists, he would lead me to the evidence I need. And I also acknowledged that I can't lose my salvation, and given that my heart longs for nothing more than for this God to be real, it seems that I certainly have had salvation. Thus he will surely draw me back, right? That is, if he exists at all?

My questions are these: First, am I already damned, because I think it's much more probable that his claims were false than I do that they were true? Note: I have not rejected him. I just have strong doubts. Second, my comments about sincerity and relying on God to bring me to the evidence -- am I correct? If God is real, will he draw me back?

Note: Please do not respond by telling me that I need to have faith. Blind faith is useless, and I don't see such an idea defended by scripture. Moreover, blind faith can be used to defend the claim of any religion. Muslims can say that I just need to have faith. Christians can say it. So how do I choose between them? You have to appeal to something more than only faith.

You are certainly not yet saved. But I can not say you damned. You can only be damned if you die in this state. You need to repent and believe in Jesus Christ for your salvation.

Blood Bought 1953 · Jun 10, 2020

blackhole said:
So you're saying I'm damned and I can't even change it. Well, reality sucks for me.

Sure you can Change it!
You really want to be Saved.?
Just say this and mean it.....” Lord , Jesus.....have mercy on me , a sinner.....

1213 · Jun 10, 2020

blackhole said:
...My questions are these: First, am I already damned, because I think it's much more probable that his claims were false than I do that they were true? Note: I have not rejected him. I just have strong doubts. Second, my comments about sincerity and relying on God to bring me to the evidence -- am I correct? If God is real, will he draw me back?
...

Luckily for you, Jesus said:

If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 12:47-48

The point in the Bible is that people would become righteous, eternal life is promised for them.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

And that is more about right understanding than about believing. Basically, all the law in the Bible comes to “love your neighbor as yourself”. Do you think that is good, and do you want to live accordingly? I think answer to that tells is one righteous or not.

Noxot · Jun 10, 2020

blackhole said:
I know that there are figures in the Bible who doubted and yet were saved. However, I suspect that my doubt goes well beyond their doubts, except maybe not Thomas' doubt, but perhaps he wasn't saved until after he received his evidence.

I've been a Christian for 15 years.

My situation is this: Lately, I've spent an incredible amount of time trying to prove to myself that I have a very strong foundation for believing in Christianity. Unfortunately, that pursuit has pretty consistently led me to evidence which is stronger against Christianity rather than for it. Right now, I'd say that I believe there's only about a 10-20% chance that Jesus is who he claimed to be.

But I'm still searching, because that answer is sickening; it's intolerable. I will be extremely unhappy if I must live without the Christian god; my life would be utterly pointless.

So I hope that as I gather more information, my 10-20% estimate will increase.

Strangely, I never realized until now that I am very sincere in my desire to have God. There is nothing I want more. What I've done is essentially this: I recognized that my mind is fragile; we all make errors in reasoning. I can't count on myself to come to the evidence that would make me believe the Christian claims are probable. Thus, I've pleaded with God, very very sincerely, that if he exists, he would lead me to the evidence I need. And I also acknowledged that I can't lose my salvation, and given that my heart longs for nothing more than for this God to be real, it seems that I certainly have had salvation. Thus he will surely draw me back, right? That is, if he exists at all?

My questions are these: First, am I already damned, because I think it's much more probable that his claims were false than I do that they were true? Note: I have not rejected him. I just have strong doubts. Second, my comments about sincerity and relying on God to bring me to the evidence -- am I correct? If God is real, will he draw me back?

Note: Please do not respond by telling me that I need to have faith. Blind faith is useless, and I don't see such an idea defended by scripture. Moreover, blind faith can be used to defend the claim of any religion. Muslims can say that I just need to have faith. Christians can say it. So how do I choose between them? You have to appeal to something more than only faith.

What is evidence? What is faith?

BBAS 64 · Jun 10, 2020

blackhole said:
Any other religion could make the same claim: Don't reason, just seek.

You have to offer something that makes Christianity more likely than any other religion.

Good Day, BlackHole

The death, burial, and the empty tomb along with other historical facts behind the Man Jesus Christ.

Faith Has Its Reasons by R.C. Sproul

Snip...

Revelation is the third category of knowledge. Christianity is a revealed religion. The Christian God is not mute. When we talk about faith as the evidence of things not seen, we’re talking about believing the Lord who has spoken. Not just believing in God but believing God. Believing God for things we cannot see now is the essence of faith, but it’s not an irrational or unscientific faith. God makes it very rational for me to believe He’s there. He’s shown Himself in the created order. He’s broken into time and space. Jesus came in the flesh, was seen, and rose from the dead in history. The Apostles testify to these events in Scripture, recording those things they witnessed with their senses.

It’s not irrational to believe in the One who vindicated Himself as the incarnation of truth. This is not blind faith but faith that embraces testimony. The real opposites of faith are not reason and sense perception but credulity and superstition. Credulity, or naive believism, believes something that has no basis in reality. Superstition believes in magical things that have nothing to do with Scripture.

We find superstition and credulity throughout the church. That’s why we continually measure our faith by the Word of God and make sure we are assenting to the reasonable, historical testimony of the prophets and the Apostles to the triumph of Christ. Faith is not mere intellectual assent. We aren’t saved simply because we affirm the truth of certain facts but because we trust the Person whom those facts reveal. So, faith is definitely more than knowledge. But it is not less.

In Him,

Bill

BobRyan · Jun 10, 2020

blackhole said:
I know that there are figures in the Bible who doubted and yet were saved. However, I suspect that my doubt goes well beyond their doubts, except maybe not Thomas' doubt, but perhaps he wasn't saved until after he received his evidence.

I've been a Christian for 15 years.

My situation is this: Lately, I've spent an incredible amount of time trying to prove to myself that I have a very strong foundation for believing in Christianity. Unfortunately, that pursuit has pretty consistently led me to evidence which is stronger against Christianity rather than for it. Right now, I'd say that I believe there's only about a 10-20% chance that Jesus is who he claimed to be.

But I'm still searching, because that answer is sickening; it's intolerable. I will be extremely unhappy if I must live without the Christian god; my life would be utterly pointless.

So I hope that as I gather more information, my 10-20% estimate will increase.

First of all - don't start with the negative ... don't try to "defeat satan first".

Try getting to know the truth first before marching out against the devil.

Eph 6 says to "put on the full armor of God so that having done everything you may stand firm"... if you go out without the armor ... expect defeat.

un-armored Christians have a lot of "tradition" and "my pastor says so" and "My family believes this or that"... which is mere 'fluff' when it comes to opposing the devil. He chews through that like it was confetti

On your path to God -- don't forget this one

James 4
Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

Blood Bought 1953 · Jun 10, 2020

1213 said:
Luckily for you, Jesus said:

If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 12:47-48

The point in the Bible is that people would become righteous, eternal life is promised for them.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

And that is more about right understanding than about believing. Basically, all the law in the Bible comes to “love your neighbor as yourself”. Do you think that is good, and do you want to live accordingly? I think answer to that tells is one righteous or not.

Only God is “ righteous”.The only “ Righteousness” you or I will EVER know is one that is IMPUTED to us because of our Faith in Christ and Him Alone to Save us...
“ Abraham BELIEVED God and it was COUNTED to him as Righteousness”
My Righteousness and your Righteousness don’t count for much in God's Eyes.....He sees it as “ used menstrual rags”......

Aussie Pete · Jun 11, 2020

blackhole said:
Islamists say exactly the same thing.

You're making a truth claim without giving any evidence for what's true. That's bold.

Ah. I will quote my reference, if you really need me to. The only Person to die and rise again said so. Mohamed, Joseph Smith, Confucius, Buddha, Charles Russell - all dead. Jesus is alive. He IS the Truth

BobRyan · Jun 11, 2020

blackhole said:
Islamists say exactly the same thing.
You're making a truth claim without giving any evidence for what's true. That's bold.

Everyone says that what they believe is true. Just saying it does not prove anything.

Given a rock, a glass of water, sunlight and a bunch of gas..
.how long before it turns into a computer??
a rabbit?
a horse?
a human?
How many billions of years??

Clearly multiplying 0 by a zillion... is till zero.

Start there.
==========================
Next.
If you truly did not know which of the religion stories were right... but you know from step one above that atheism is false ...
The next most obvious step is - "who has the best religion?" the best story?
1. A god that does not care?
2. A god that does not know all?
3. A god that is not allpowerful?
4. A god that is capricious and unloving -- demanding but not dying for the sins of mankind?
5. A God who "So loved the World that He gave" -- who starts us off in perfect sinless peaceful paradise and then restores us back to that again - after free will mistakes were made by us?

pick the best one and assume you will not turn out to be wiser-than-god or more-loving-than-god as the outcome.
===============================
That step-two list of choices is not that challenging either.

So then that leaves -- Given that the gospel is true - who has it right?

And remember - if the devil is even half as talented and capable as God says he is - then it is not wise to go to "the devil's doubters-r-US book store" first and read all his material before digging into the details of the Bible first.

As a doubter, am I already damned?

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Member

Active Member

Ned Flander’s Buddy

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Member

Ned Flander’s Buddy

Disciple of Jesus

anarchist personalist

Contributor

Junior Member

Ned Flander’s Buddy

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Similar threads