THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

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FineLinen

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It is not talking about the ungodly or unrepentant wicked after the second coming dear Fine.

You poor dear busticated one. There is no indication when the final judgement of Theos transpires. You keep adding "after the second coming". Your problem continues to be one of being mired in dogma and adding words to His.

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
 
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LoveGodsWord

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When do you think the "day of judgement" is? Before the "second coming"?
The scripture is to the GODLY those who are saved and accepted the free gift of God's GRACE through faith. It is not talking about the UNGODLY or the unrepentant wicked who are not Godly and do not resist temptation and reject the gift of God's GRACE and do not have faith.

The UNGODLY AND THE UNREPENTANT WICKED are not the GODLY (God's saints). Your ignoring the scripture context again.

The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

Hope this helps
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You poor dear busticated one. There is no indication when the final judgement of Theos transpires. You keep adding "after the second coming". Your problem continues to be one of being mired in dogma and adding words to His.

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."

Your confused dear Fine. Notice the application and context of the very scripture your quoting here...

“The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

It is not talking about the ungodly or unrepentant wicked after the second coming dear Fine. Your trying to make the scriptures say what they do not say or teach.

Hope this helps dear friend
 
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ClementofA

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The scripture is to the GODLY those who are saved and accepted the free gift of God's GRACE through faith. It is not talking about the UNGODLY or the unrepentant wicked who are not Godly and do not resist temptation and reject the gift of God's GRACE and do not have faith.

The UNGODLY AND THE UNREPENTANT WICKED are not the GODLY (God's saints). Your ignoring the scripture context again.

The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

The verse speaks of the "unrighteous". Are they not the "unrepentant wicked"?

Is the "day of judgement" not "after the second coming"?

Notice the application and context of the very scripture your quoting here...

“The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

It is not talking about the ungodly or unrepentant wicked after the second coming dear Fine.

When do you think the "day of judgement" is? Before the "second coming"?

Are not the "unrighteous" the "ungodly" there it's talking about?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The verse speaks of the "unrighteous". Are they not the "unrepentant wicked"?

Is the "day of judgement" not "after the second coming"?

When do you think the "day of judgement" is? Before the "second coming"?

Are not the "unrighteous" the "ungodly" there it's talking about?

No the GODLY are not the UNRIGHTEOUS.

“The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

God's judgements are given to the unrighteous in the second death REVELATION 21:7-8.
 
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ClementofA

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No the GODLY are not the UNRIGHTEOUS.

Obviously, but that wasn't any of the questions & doesn't answer any of them. Perhaps you need to get some prescription specs or something.

Do you see the word "UNRIGHTEOUS" in 2 Peter 2:9? Who are they, except the ungodly?

The scripture is to the GODLY those who are saved and accepted the free gift of God's GRACE through faith. It is not talking about the UNGODLY or the unrepentant wicked who are not Godly and do not resist temptation and reject the gift of God's GRACE and do not have faith.

The UNGODLY AND THE UNREPENTANT WICKED are not the GODLY (God's saints). Your ignoring the scripture context again.

The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

The verse speaks of the "unrighteous". Are they not the "unrepentant wicked"?

Is the "day of judgement" not "after the second coming"?

Notice the application and context of the very scripture your quoting here...

“The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

It is not talking about the ungodly or unrepentant wicked after the second coming dear Fine.

When do you think the "day of judgement" is? Before the "second coming"?

Are not the "unrighteous" the "ungodly" there it's talking about?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Obviously, but that wasn't any of the questions & doesn't answer any of them. Perhaps you need to get some prescription specs or something.

Do you see the word "UNRIGHTEOUS" in 2 Peter 2:9? Who are they, except the ungodly?



The verse speaks of the "unrighteous". Are they not the "unrepentant wicked"?

Is the "day of judgement" not "after the second coming"?



When do you think the "day of judgement" is? Before the "second coming"?

Are not the "unrighteous" the "ungodly" there it's talking about?

What has any of this got to do with what was written to you? Nothing.
I posted earlier... No the GODLY are not the UNRIGHTEOUS. They are the unrepentant wicked.

“The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

The "day of judgement" is the day that God's judgements are given to the ungodly (unrighteous). It is called "the second death" REVELATION 21:7-8. The Second death is when God's judgements are given to the ungodly or the unrepentant wicked after the second coming.

Hope this helps
 
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FineLinen

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Hope this helps

You poor dear busticated one, your limited must ultimately come to the God of UN!

This entire world is busted, (us & them), & are in need of deliverance.

The whole of created life shall be delivered !
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You poor dear busticated one, your limited must ultimately come to the God of UN!

This entire world is busted, (us & them), & are in need of deliverance.

The whole of created life shall be delivered !

The gambling lady of second chances is the God of Universalism dear Fine. It is not the God of the bible. The God of the bible does not teach that we can gamble our life away in second chances after the second coming. The unrepentant wicked sadly reject the free gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing dispite to the Spirit of God's grace and make a mockery of the cross of God's dear son. It is only those who believe in the gambling ladies lies of second chances and who turn away from God's Word back to sin that are deluded because they are drunk by drinking the polluted waters of her broken cisterns (teachings of men). Her lies will be exposed after the second coming and how sad will those be who turned away from God and trusted in her? There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. They will have found out only too late they have built their house on sifting sand. Then, when the storms came and blew their house over great was the fall thereof. JESUS (the Word) came knocking at the door but they would not let him in. They should have built their house on the living rock but did not listen. Time to leave the teachings of the gambling lady of second chances dear Fine. There is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked at the second coming but only a second death in the lake of fire according to the God of the bible.
 
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FineLinen

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The gambling lady of second chances is the God of universalism.

Her lies will be exposed.

How sad will those be who turned away from God and trusted in her.

Time to leave the teachings of the gambling lady of second chances.

We bid her & her gobbledygook adieu!
 
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FineLinen

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“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”

"Will have" = thelo

"He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,"

Potentate = Sovereign authority = exousia =

Ability & strength to do as He pleases.

Our God is not the ultimate gambler. He Is the One who does as He pleases with the ability & strength to do it.

He is not the God of good wishes.

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
 
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FineLinen

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"The first thing I want you to do is pray. Pray every way you know how, for everyone you know. Pray especially for rulers and their governments to rule well so we can be quietly about our business of living simply, in humble contemplation. This is the way our Savior God wants us to live.

He wants not only us but everyone saved, you know, everyone to get to know the truth we’ve learned: that there’s one God and only one, and one Priest-Mediator between God and us—Jesus, who offered himself in exchange for everyone held captive by sin, to set them all free." -MSG-
 
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ClementofA

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What has any of this got to do with what was written to you? Nothing.

You erroneously claimed 2 Pet.2:9 is not talking about the ungodly. But it is talking about the ungodly, because it speaks of the unrighteous who are the ungodly:

The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver the godly out of temptation and to reserve the UNRIGHTEOUS unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

No the GODLY are not the UNRIGHTEOUS.

Obviously, but that wasn't any of the questions & doesn't answer any of them. Perhaps you need to get some prescription specs or something.

Do you see the word "UNRIGHTEOUS" in 2 Peter 2:9? Who are they, except the ungodly?

The scripture is to the GODLY those who are saved and accepted the free gift of God's GRACE through faith. It is not talking about the UNGODLY or the unrepentant wicked who are not Godly and do not resist temptation and reject the gift of God's GRACE and do not have faith.

The UNGODLY AND THE UNREPENTANT WICKED are not the GODLY (God's saints). Your ignoring the scripture context again.

The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

The verse speaks of the "unrighteous". Are they not the "unrepentant wicked"?

Is the "day of judgement" not "after the second coming"?

Notice the application and context of the very scripture your quoting here...

“The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

It is not talking about the ungodly or unrepentant wicked after the second coming dear Fine.

When do you think the "day of judgement" is? Before the "second coming"?

Are not the "unrighteous" the "ungodly" there it's talking about?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You erroneously claimed 2 Pet.2:9 is not talking about the ungodly. But it is talking about the ungodly, because it speaks of the unrighteous who are the ungodly
Nonsense. Please stop twisting what I posted earlier. I highligted what I was posting and discussing in regards to the scripture shared. You part quoting me and pretending to say things I am not does not help your cause. I posted earlier... No the GODLY are not the UNRIGHTEOUS. They are the unrepentant wicked (the UNGODLY).

The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished” -2 Peter 2:9-

"Who shall be punished with everlasting DESTRUCTION from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." -2 Thessalonians 1:9-

The "day of judgement" is the day that God's punishments are given to the ungodly (unrighteous). It is called "the second death" Revelation 21:7-8. The Second death is when God's judgements (punishment) is given to the ungodly or the unrepentant wicked after the second coming.

Obviously, but that wasn't any of the questions & doesn't answer any of them. Perhaps you need to get some prescription specs or something. Do you see the word "UNRIGHTEOUS" in 2 Peter 2:9? Who are they, except the ungodly? The verse speaks of the "unrighteous". Are they not the "unrepentant wicked"? Is the "day of judgement" not "after the second coming"? When do you think the "day of judgement" is? Before the "second coming"?Are not the "unrighteous" the "ungodly" there it's talking about?
This is more false repititious cut and paste already addressed in previous posts and the previous section in this post. If you disagree then show why. All your doing here is repeating yourself.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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“The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver the godly out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

Punishment=Kolasis

Kolasis=

Correction.

Punishment.

Penalty.

Kolasis Rooted In Kolazo

Kolazo=

  1. To lop or prune, as trees and wings.

  2. To curb, check, restrain.

  3. To chastise. To correct. Punishment .

  4. To cause to be punished.
Correction=

Alteration that improves: An alteration that removes an error.

Punishment meant to improve: Punishment, especially meant to improve or reform the person punished.

Law treatment of offenders: The system of dealing with criminals by improvement, rehabilitation, parole, probation.

Treatment of a specific defect.

The act of offering an improvement to replace a mistake. Something substituted for an error.

A rebuke for making a mistake.

The act of punishing.

Removing of errors: The removing of errors from something or the indicating of errors in something.

The act or process of correcting.

Something that is substituted or proposed for what is wrong or inaccurate.

Rectification/ modification/ adjustment/ amending.

Amendation.

Rectification.

Rectification=

To set right. To correct.

To purify.

To correct by removing errors.

To adjust.

A quantity applied by way of correcting.

The act or process of correcting.

Something that is substituted or proposed for what is wrong or inaccurate.

Amendation.

To correct something or make something right.

The act of rectifying or the fact of being rectified.

To correct by calculation or adjustment.

To adjust.

To fix/ repair/ remedy/ amend/ correct/ redress/ put to right/ to straighten/ to reform/ to adjust something.

The act of amending, correcting or setting right that which is wrong or erroneous.

“Vessels of wrath fitted to destruction”

Fitted= Katartizo=

To mend what has been broken or rent.

To repair.

To complete/ put in order/ to arrange/ to adjust.

To make one what he aught to be.

“In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him.” -C.S. Lewis

Hmmm Destruction is not correction it is Destruction...also called the second death to the unrepentant wicked after the second coming.

2 THESSALONIANS 1:9 [9], Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

ὄλεθρος, ου, ὁ (ὄλλυμι ‘destroy’; Hom.+; SIG 527, 82 [c. 220 B.C.]; BGU 1027 XXVI, 11; LXX; PsSol 8:1; TestReub 4:6; 6:3; Philo; Jos., Ant. 17, 38, Vi. 264; SibOr 3, 327; 348)
a state of destruction, destruction, ruin, death in our lit. always w. some kind of transcendent coloring (hostile spirits work ἐπʼ ὀλέθρῳ τοῦ γένους τῶν ἀνθρώπων Orig., C. Cels. 8, 54, 32): ἔρχεταί τινι ὄλ. ruin comes upon someone 1 Cl 57:4 (Pr 1:26). αἰφνίδιος αὐτοῖς ἐφίσταται ὄλ. sudden destruction will come upon them 1 Th 5:3. βυθίζειν τινὰ εἰς ὄλ. plunge someone headlong into ruin 1 Ti 6:9. ὄλ. αἰώνιος eternal death (TestReub 6:3) 2 Th 1:9 (s. ὀλέθριος).

Nope not what your trying to say.

Hope this helps.
 
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FineLinen

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Hmmm Destruction is not correction it is Destruction...also called the second death to the unrepentant wicked after the second coming.

Hope this helps.

Good grief, after bidding you adieu, here you come trotting back with your insight which does not help at all.

Kolasis aionion -Matthew 25:46-

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

Scarlett’s New Testament written in 1792 has “aeonian punishment” in place to “everlasting punishment.”

“And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.”

The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:

“And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.”

Young’s Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:

“And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.”

Professor Young also compiled Young’s Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:

“And these last will go away ‘into aeonian punishment,’ but the righteous ‘into aeonian life.’”

The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:

"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:

“And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages.”

Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as “life of the ages,” “fire of the ages;” and in Rev. 14:6, “The good news of the ages.”

It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth’s version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:

“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word “forever” which is the same word for “eternal” which says: "Literally, for the age.”

Clementson’s The New Testament (1938) shows,

“And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”

Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,

“And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.”

It should be noted that the “cutting-off” refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit.

The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word “timoria.”

The Concordant Version (1930):

“And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:

“And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”

Joseph B. Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,

“and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.”

The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976

has “age-abiding correction” instead of “everlasting punishment.”

Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has

"And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King’s translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.”

The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”
 
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Good grief, after bidding you adieu, here you come trotting back with your insight which does not help at all.

Kolasis aionion -Matthew 25:46-

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

Scarlett’s New Testament written in 1792 has “aeonian punishment” in place to “everlasting punishment.”

“And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.”

The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:

“And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.”

Young’s Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:

“And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.”

Professor Young also compiled Young’s Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:

“And these last will go away ‘into aeonian punishment,’ but the righteous ‘into aeonian life.’”

The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:

"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:

“And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages.”

Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as “life of the ages,” “fire of the ages;” and in Rev. 14:6, “The good news of the ages.”

It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth’s version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:

“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word “forever” which is the same word for “eternal” which says: "Literally, for the age.”

Clementson’s The New Testament (1938) shows,

“And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”

Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,

“And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.”

It should be noted that the “cutting-off” refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit.

The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word “timoria.”

The Concordant Version (1930):

“And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:

“And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”

Joseph B. Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,

“and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.”

The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976

has “age-abiding correction” instead of “everlasting punishment.”

Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has

"And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King’s translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.”

The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”

Hmm and what exactly dear Fine in anything you have written above says that the "PUNISHMENT" received by the unrepentant wicked after the second coming is not DESTRUCTION and the SECOND DEATH?

2 THESSALONIANS 1:9 [9], Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

Yep nothing. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. Time to leave the gambling lady of second chances dear friend.
 
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ClementofA

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2 THESSALONIANS 1:9 [9], Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

ὄλεθρος, ου, ὁ (ὄλλυμι ‘destroy’; Hom.+; SIG 527, 82 [c. 220 B.C.]; BGU 1027 XXVI, 11; LXX; PsSol 8:1; TestReub 4:6; 6:3; Philo; Jos., Ant. 17, 38, Vi. 264; SibOr 3, 327; 348)
a state of destruction, destruction, ruin, death in our lit. always w. some kind of transcendent coloring (hostile spirits work ἐπʼ ὀλέθρῳ τοῦ γένους τῶν ἀνθρώπων Orig., C. Cels. 8, 54, 32): ἔρχεταί τινι ὄλ. ruin comes upon someone 1 Cl 57:4 (Pr 1:26). αἰφνίδιος αὐτοῖς ἐφίσταται ὄλ. sudden destruction will come upon them 1 Th 5:3. βυθίζειν τινὰ εἰς ὄλ. plunge someone headlong into ruin 1 Ti 6:9. ὄλ. αἰώνιος eternal death (TestReub 6:3) 2 Th 1:9 (s. ὀλέθριος).

Nope not what your trying to say.

Hope this helps.



Cut and paste repitition again dear friend without addressing the content of posts and scriptures shared with you again.

New material was added. Did you not see it here:

2 Thess.1:9 is not a difficult text to reconcile with the Scriptural teaching of universal reconciliation(UR). Simply put it speaks of an indefinite duration (=aionias, often deceptively rendered eternal/everlasting) of destruction.

Therefore, whatever you understand by the word "destruction" - whether death, annihilation or ruin - the text is perfectly harmonious with UR passages of the Bible. Problem solved. Now you can rejoice in the Good News!

2Thess.1:9 Who, indeed, a penalty, shall pay—age-abiding destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might— (Rotherham)

9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength" (CLNT)

who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength, (2 Thess 1:9, YLT)

A recent new translation by EO scholar David Bentley Hart reads: "Who shall pay the just reparation of ruin in the Age, coming from the face of the Lord and the glory of his might" (A Translation: The New Testament, 2017, Yale University Press).

Regarding the mistranslation "everlasting" or "eternal" in 2 Thess.1:9: "166 aiṓnios (an adjective, derived from 165 /aiṓn ("an age, having a particular character and quality") –properly, "age-like" ("like-an-age"), i.e. an "age-characteristic" (the quality describing a particular age);..."
Strong's Greek: 166. αἰώνιος (aiónios) -- agelong, eternal

A drunkard can be destroyed by alcohol and later recover. So what if the wicked are "destroyed". What Love Omnipotent destroys He can restore. Jesus said, Destroy this temple and in 3 days i will raise it up (Jn.2:19, paraphrase). King Neb's soul was so destroyed by the Saviour of all mankind that he ate grass like an animal for 7 years until God restored him by destroying his destruction. So can you not see that the destruction of which you speak is no - proof - for the endless annihilation Hitler job on anyone. And why would Love Crucified want to sadistically torment (Rev.14:11; 20:10) anyone He intended to blot out of existence for eternity? Your theology makes - no - sense!



Further re 2 Thess.1:9, Jason Pratt said:

"Which definitely refers to hopeful punishment (and expected salvation in the same day of the Lord to come), not annihilation, when Paul uses it to talk about handing the Stepmom-Sleeping Guy over to Satan for the whole-destruction of the flesh in 1 Cor 5:5.

"Paul compares it to a birth-pang, which is dangerous but hardly hopeless annihilation (and is generally regarded as very hopeful) at 1 Thess 5:3 (talking about the same day to come).

"Paul uses the term to describe people killed by God in the past at 1 Cor 10:10, which can hardly be annihilation unless the resurrection of the evil as well as the good is denied.

"2 Thess 1:9 uses phrases similar to those found in Isaiah 2, talking about the same coming event, which is part of a block of prophecy where those wholly ruined aren't annihilated, but eventually repent of their sins and go to the "survivors" of God's wrath to be reconciled to God, which God accepts washing them clean with spirit and with fire. (Isaiah 4.) Again, far from a result of hopeless annihilation.

"2 Thess 1 is actually one of my scriptural testimonies 'for' universal salvation."


Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."


(1) 2 THESSALONIANS 1:9 - you post here you have not addressed in
post # 1363; post # 1364; post # 1365; post # 1366; post # 1367.

I did address the first 3 of those. You have yet to deal with the points in my replies.


All you provided above is a cut and paste repitition of your earlier post without addressing any or my other posts from which you provide a few different translation which do not effect the meaning of the Greek to which the above posts prove in detail.

It takes 4 huge cut/paste posts from somewhere to explain that?

The word you posted is "eternal" but i posted translations saying "eonian", etc. So how can you say i "provide a few different translation which do not effect the meaning of the Greek"? If the punishment is only eonian and not eternal, then it can be finite as universalsm says it is.

I have already agreed that the process of destruction to aionias is not everlsating as the greek rendering of the scanned script already provided is...

Then why do you use the translation "eternal" at 2 Thess.1:9?

What is this supposed to mean: "the process of destruction to aionias is not everlsating".

"Who the penalty shall suffer (context to the wicked and God's vengence) destruction eternal from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength" (see below scanned image)



It is the destruction that is eternal not the act of destruction that many of the eternal burning hell people believe. So no you have not provided any harmony to what UNIVERSALISM teaches at all to what I have been sharing with you.


That's your opinion. OTOH my view is that there is nothing "eternal" in 2 Thess.1:9, for "eternal" is not the meaning of the word aionios there. So, as i said, the passage is perfectly harmonious with universalism.

A drunkard can be destroyed by alcohol and later recover. So what if the wicked are "destroyed". What Love Omnipotent destroys He can restore. Jesus said, Destroy this temple and in 3 days i will raise it up (Jn.2:19, paraphrase). King Neb's soul was so destroyed by the Saviour of all mankind that he ate grass like an animal for 7 years until God restored him by destroying his destruction. So can you not see that the destruction of which you speak is no - proof - for the endless annihilation Hitler job on anyone. And why would Love Crucified want to sadistically torment (Rev.14:11; 20:10) anyone He intended to blot out of existence for eternity? Your theology makes - no - sense!



**********************************************


I destroyed all your "proof texts" against universalism showing they failed as such "proof texts". That's why your quoted verses are so lame. If Scripture actually taught the endless tortures or endless annihilation doctrine, why isn't it being shouted in the most clear language repeatedly from Genesis to Revelation. Such doctrines are a joke.

Yet another lame, feeble, failing attempt to support your theology. Nothing there states there are no more chances after the second coming. Nothing there states the Love of Love Crucified the Omnipotent has expired like a carton of milk & the Almighty is powerless to save. Nothing states Love unending will hold grudges, bitterness and hate against anyone for all eternity, as your theology would have us believe.

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

75 UR verses + 100 proofs + 150 reasons etc:
Web Online Help

213 Questions Without Answers:
Questions Without Answers

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

"You are fully, completely, and thoroughly adored by God."
"You are fully, completely, and thoroughly adored by God."

May the Lord keep, bless & heal you.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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New material was added. Did you not see it here:

2 Thess.1:9 is not a difficult text to reconcile with the Scriptural teaching of universal reconciliation(UR). Simply put it speaks of an indefinite duration (=aionias, often deceptively rendered eternal/everlasting) of destruction.

Therefore, whatever you understand by the word "destruction" - whether death, annihilation or ruin - the text is perfectly harmonious with UR passages of the Bible. Problem solved. Now you can rejoice in the Good News!

2Thess.1:9 Who, indeed, a penalty, shall pay—age-abiding destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might— (Rotherham)

9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength" (CLNT)

who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength, (2 Thess 1:9, YLT)

A recent new translation by EO scholar David Bentley Hart reads: "Who shall pay the just reparation of ruin in the Age, coming from the face of the Lord and the glory of his might" (A Translation: The New Testament, 2017, Yale University Press).

Regarding the mistranslation "everlasting" or "eternal" in 2 Thess.1:9: "166 aiṓnios (an adjective, derived from 165 /aiṓn ("an age, having a particular character and quality") –properly, "age-like" ("like-an-age"), i.e. an "age-characteristic" (the quality describing a particular age);..."
Strong's Greek: 166. αἰώνιος (aiónios) -- agelong, eternal

A drunkard can be destroyed by alcohol and later recover. So what if the wicked are "destroyed". What Love Omnipotent destroys He can restore. Jesus said, Destroy this temple and in 3 days i will raise it up (Jn.2:19, paraphrase). King Neb's soul was so destroyed by the Saviour of all mankind that he ate grass like an animal for 7 years until God restored him by destroying his destruction. So can you not see that the destruction of which you speak is no - proof - for the endless annihilation Hitler job on anyone. And why would Love Crucified want to sadistically torment (Rev.14:11; 20:10) anyone He intended to blot out of existence for eternity? Your theology makes - no - sense!



Further re 2 Thess.1:9, Jason Pratt said:

"Which definitely refers to hopeful punishment (and expected salvation in the same day of the Lord to come), not annihilation, when Paul uses it to talk about handing the Stepmom-Sleeping Guy over to Satan for the whole-destruction of the flesh in 1 Cor 5:5.

"Paul compares it to a birth-pang, which is dangerous but hardly hopeless annihilation (and is generally regarded as very hopeful) at 1 Thess 5:3 (talking about the same day to come).

"Paul uses the term to describe people killed by God in the past at 1 Cor 10:10, which can hardly be annihilation unless the resurrection of the evil as well as the good is denied.

"2 Thess 1:9 uses phrases similar to those found in Isaiah 2, talking about the same coming event, which is part of a block of prophecy where those wholly ruined aren't annihilated, but eventually repent of their sins and go to the "survivors" of God's wrath to be reconciled to God, which God accepts washing them clean with spirit and with fire. (Isaiah 4.) Again, far from a result of hopeless annihilation.

"2 Thess 1 is actually one of my scriptural testimonies 'for' universal salvation."


Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."




I did address the first 3 of those. You have yet to deal with the points in my replies.




It takes 4 huge cut/paste posts from somewhere to explain that?

The word you posted is "eternal" but i posted translations saying "eonian", etc. So how can you say i "provide a few different translation which do not effect the meaning of the Greek"? If the punishment is only eonian and not eternal, then it can be finite as universalsm says it is.



Then why do you use the translation "eternal" at 2 Thess.1:9?

What is this supposed to mean: "the process of destruction to aionias is not everlsating".




That's your opinion. OTOH my view is that there is nothing "eternal" in 2 Thess.1:9, for "eternal" is not the meaning of the word aionios there. So, as i said, the passage is perfectly harmonious with universalism.

A drunkard can be destroyed by alcohol and later recover. So what if the wicked are "destroyed". What Love Omnipotent destroys He can restore. Jesus said, Destroy this temple and in 3 days i will raise it up (Jn.2:19, paraphrase). King Neb's soul was so destroyed by the Saviour of all mankind that he ate grass like an animal for 7 years until God restored him by destroying his destruction. So can you not see that the destruction of which you speak is no - proof - for the endless annihilation Hitler job on anyone. And why would Love Crucified want to sadistically torment (Rev.14:11; 20:10) anyone He intended to blot out of existence for eternity? Your theology makes - no - sense!

Nonsense. All of this is old material that does not address earlier posts to you. That you simply choose to ignore. Please address the contents of these posts and prove why you disagree with them in regards to 2 THESSALONIANS 1:9 - you post here has been addressed and further content added to show why your claims are in error in post # 1363; post # 1364; post # 1365; post # 1366; post # 1367; post # 1657 linked; posts # 1658 linked; posts # 1659 linked; post # 1761 linked; posts # 1771 linked post # 1782 linked; post 1783 linked; post # 1790 linked; post # 1791 linked.

Sorry dear friend it seems Gods Word disagrees with you and your claims. Something to pray about I guess.

Hope this helps.
 
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ClementofA

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Nonsense. Please stop twisting what I posted earlier.

Huh? Here's what you said:

Notice the application and context of the very scripture your quoting here...

“The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver THE GODLY out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished…” -2 Peter 2:9-

It is not talking about the ungodly or unrepentant wicked after the second coming dear Fine.

How can you say 2 Pet.2:9 is "not talking about the ungodly or unrepentant wicked after the second coming"? Please explain.
 
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