Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!

Phil W

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“Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?”
Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart
and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
This is the first and greatest commandment."

How does that satisfy "obeying the gospel"?
 
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Phil W

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The Bible talks about “ the Obedience of the Gospel”
You are correct when you say that the Gospel “ doesn’t tell us to do anything”
That is how you “ Obey” it.......do nothing....do NOT add to it....REST in it for your Salvation....the Gospel Of Paul, found in 1Cor15:1-4.....All we have to do is Believe it....If you Believe , that means you Trust it.....If you Trust in something you will Rest in it.....thinking there must be something that YOU have to do in addition to Believing Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave will make you “ Fall from Grace”......Read all about it in Galatians...
If you "believe Jesus", you have to obey all His other commandments too..."And His commandments are not grievous."
Failure to obey illustrates unbelief.
 
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Phil W

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The Bible talks about “ the Obedience of the Gospel”
You are correct when you say that the Gospel “ doesn’t tell us to do anything”
That is how you “ Obey” it.......do nothing....do NOT add to it....REST in it for your Salvation....the Gospel Of Paul, found in 1Cor15:1-4.....All we have to do is Believe it....If you Believe , that means you Trust it.....If you Trust in something you will Rest in it.....thinking there must be something that YOU have to do in addition to Believing Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave will make you “ Fall from Grace”......Read all about it in Galatians...
I think "obedience to the gospel" is a bit of a misnomer.
The gospel is the good news that Jesus died for our sins and was raised from the dead on the third day.
How can one obey that "observation"?
I can tell from Rom 10 that believing the above is what real believers "do"...but I really don't see a command to believe anywhere.
It seems that there are some blanks to fill in...
 
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Phil W

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The Bible talks about “ the Obedience of the Gospel”
You are correct when you say that the Gospel “ doesn’t tell us to do anything”
That is how you “ Obey” it.......do nothing....do NOT add to it....REST in it for your Salvation....the Gospel Of Paul, found in 1Cor15:1-4.....All we have to do is Believe it....If you Believe , that means you Trust it.....If you Trust in something you will Rest in it.....thinking there must be something that YOU have to do in addition to Believing Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave will make you “ Fall from Grace”......Read all about it in Galatians...
Isn't "believing" something we must do?
We have our part to play in our own salvation.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Isn't "believing" something we must do?
We have our part to play in our own salvation.

“Believing” is something we must do — something we do that dies not require any “ work” on our part

The only “ part to play” In our Salvation is this: Receive a Free Gift.....Put any type of Label on that that makes you happy—- it’s how one gets saved....
 
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.....simply a new way of saying.....” Jesus Saves......B U T”
The division of Salvation into separate parts put on display here is simply UnBiblical......no matter HOW you dress it up.....

And a lifeguard can save a person from drowning, BUT.... that does not mean they cannot drown at another later time with nobody saving them. Anyways, I put forth verses for you to address. If you do not want to explain them, you can continue to keep offering your opinion instead of the Word of God.

Again, Paul says you can deny a person by a lack of works (See: Titus 1:16). Paul says if any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22). Jesus says for the way for us to love Him is to keep His commandments (John 14:15).
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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And a lifeguard can save a person from drowning, BUT.... that does not mean they cannot drown at another later time with nobody saving them. Anyways, I put forth verses for you to address. If you do not want to explain them, you can continue to keep offering your opinion instead of the Word of God.

Again, Paul says you can deny a person by a lack of works (See: Titus 1:16). Paul says if any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22). Jesus says for the way for us to love Him is to keep His commandments (John 14:15).

Sorry.....I am not trying to ignore the verses you put forth.....I just got so much stuff going on in different threads, I can’t keep up.....what are the top two or three things you want me to address.....I live to please....lol..
 
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And a lifeguard can save a person from drowning, BUT.... that does not mean they cannot drown at another later time with nobody saving them. Anyways, I put forth verses for you to address. If you do not want to explain them, you can continue to keep offering your opinion instead of the Word of God.

Again, Paul says you can deny a person by a lack of works (See: Titus 1:16). Paul says if any man does not love the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22). Jesus says for the way for us to love Him is to keep His commandments (John 14:15).



Jesus left us with only Two Commandments......Believe.....Love
1John 3:23
 
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Thank you for sharing. I agree with the majority of it.



Well, I believe the examples in Scripture you gave on prayer are those who are praying while still justifying sin in their life. This is not talking about the believer who is broken before God and falls to his knees grieving over his sin and calls upon the name of the Lord so as to be saved according to Romans 10:13 for the first time. These verses are also not referring to 1 John 1:9, or Psalms 51. There needs to be an acknowledgment that a person can be saved by God's grace. This can be a special prayer that saves. This of course leads to holiness or godliness. For God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live godly and righteously in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

You say a special prayer does not save. I disagree. It saved me. I was going in another direction. A path towards sin, and when I accepted Christ as my Savior, it was like a light had turned on in my life. I felt a joy, and peace I had never known before. I was changed, and God's Word became alive to me. This was not experience alone but it is a Scriptural one. To deny this is to deny Scripture such as Romans 10:13, Luke 15:18-21, Luke 18:9-14, Acts of the Apostles 8:22, 1 John 1:9, Psalms 51, Proverbs 28:13.



I believe repentance is the sinner's prayer.
Whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
But is that all we need to do? Surely not. There is more of course.
There are the fruits of repentance.
The tree (repentance) cannot be the same thing as the fruit (doing good works).

As for the gospel: That is defined for us in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
The gospel is believing that Christ died for us, He was buried, and He was risen again three days later for our salvation. This is a part of our initial and foundational salvation. But I agree that there is a way we can obey the gospel in a way that is similar to Sanctification or living holy (Which is alluded to at the beginning of Romans 6).

Anyways, may love, and peace be unto you the Lord.

Sincerely,

~ J.
Brother, I understand the point you are making, and what you have said thus far is true, however, it misses the point I'm making: the context of the tract illustrates what "special prayer" means, and it is not at all what you've described, for I too, by your definition, was also saved by 'special prayer', but that is not the case, because you have conflated 'special prayer' with repentance.

The prayer of repentance is not the magical incantation most preach, but the expression of someone who has believed the gospel, and has called on Christ to be their Lord: this is the commencement of a relationship, that requires faithfulness.

Most Mega-Churches treat the prayer of repentance, that calls on Christ to be your Lord, as a light thing, to be done after service by raising your hand; no, it is done after hearing the gospel, and it is done by calling on Christ to be your Lord, which is then immediately followed by obedience to Him in baptism, which is the first answer of a good conscience towards Him.

Christ commanded His ministers to preach His gospel, in His way, yet I don't see that anymore, but well meaning believers don't think it's a big deal, and Satan quickly agrees.

No, brother, special prayers cannot save, but calling out to Christ to be your Lord, and then getting baptized in His name, does.

The water is nothing, but the obedience is everything, the prayer is nothing, but the faith is everything.

It's just like a marriage vow, brother, except the your Husband has required that you trust Him in all that He says, and then He tells you to be baptized in His name. --It is truly that simple, it is truly how the gospel of Jesus Christ commences and ends.

Why not just obey Him, in all that He says?
 
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Brother, I understand the point you are making, and what you have said thus far is true, however, it misses the point I'm making: the context of the tract illustrates what "special prayer" means, and it is not at all what you've described, for I too, by your definition, was also saved by 'special prayer', but that is not the case, because you have conflated 'special prayer' with repentance.

Repentance is a special prayer, but the repentance proves itself true by the fruits of repentance (See post #654 for my biblical defense of repentance). If there is no fruit (putting away sin, good works, holy living, etc.) then the repentance (i.e. special prayer) was not genuine. This is what the Parable of the Two Sons is about (See: Matthew 21:28-32). One of several problems I had with the tract is that it condemns the sinner's prayer altogether. It does not condemn just doing the “sinner's prayer alone” (with no fruit or changed life). Please show me where in the tract it supports the “sinner's prayer” as long as it is coupled by a changed life with good works. Please give me the exact page number.

You said:
The prayer of repentance is not the magical incantation most preach, but the expression of someone who has believed the gospel, and has called on Christ to be their Lord: this is the commencement of a relationship, that requires faithfulness.

What do you mean by magical incantation?
I have never heard of any witchcraft involved in the altar call or inviting a person to accept Jesus and seek forgiveness with Him.
How is that like a magical incantation?
Yes, they do not preach Sanctification for salvation.
This is false. But the part about about accepting Jesus as one's Savior is not false. I have never heard Belief Alone churches preach to others that they must accept Jesus based on the condition that they trust in Christ alone for salvation and that they must live sinful and or not lift a finger for God. I have never seen any such conditions given in their call for people to do the Sinner's Prayer. Granted, they teach against Sanctification for salvation subtly elsewhere but that is at another time.

A person can accept Jesus as their Savior and be saved by hearing a prosperity preacher on TV. This does not mean they should follow their teachings, though. This does not mean that their prayer was not genuine, either.

You said:
Most Mega-Churches treat the prayer of repentance, that calls on Christ to be your Lord, as a light thing, to be done after service by raising your hand; no, it is done after hearing the gospel, and it is done by calling on Christ to be your Lord, which is then immediately followed by obedience to Him in baptism, which is the first answer of a good conscience towards Him.

“What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.” (Philippians 1:18) (KJV).

The word “pretence” in Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary.

PRETENSE, noun pretens'. [Latin proetensus, proetendo.]

1. A holding out or offering to others something false or feigned; a presenting to others, either in words or actions, a false or hypocritical appearance, usually with a view to conceal what is real, and thus to deceive. Under pretense of giving liberty to nations, the prince conquered and enslaved them. Under pretense of patriotism, ambitious men serve their own selfish purposes.​

The NIV in this particular instance agrees with our beloved King James (that is our final Word of authority).

“But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,” (Philippians 1:18) (NIV).

You include the “prayer of repentance” in salvation (within your discussion here), but the tract does not agree with you.

It is true that most do not preach Sanctification as a part of salvation; But that should not undermine being saved by the “Sinner's Prayer” (Which is biblical).

I have heard preachers preach against the Sinner's Prayer. This is wrong. The Bible teaches it. I believe it is one of the most important ways a person can receive God's grace.

Christ commanded His ministers to preach His gospel, in His way, yet I don't see that anymore, but well meaning believers don't think it's a big deal, and Satan quickly agrees.

What is the gospel according to the Bible?

1 “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

The gospel according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is:

#1. Believing (vs. 2) Christ died for our sins
according to the Scriptures (vs. 3).
#2. Believing (vs. 2) He (Christ) was buried (vs. 4).
#3. Believing (vs. 2) He (Christ) rose again the third day
according to the Scriptures (vs. 4).​

That's it! That's the gospel, my friend.
Any other kind of gospel is another gospel.

You said:
No, brother, special prayers cannot save, but calling out to Christ to be your Lord, and then getting baptized in His name, does.

Special prayers can save. We see this truth in Luke 15:18-21, and Luke 18:9-14. Yes, it is true, that we also need to declare “Jesus is Lord” (if it is possible). This is generally done when we seek forgiveness with the Lord. We do need to declare that Jesus is Lord at some point early on in our Christian walk (if such a truth is within our grasp or capabilities). The man who is on his deathbed who does not have a lot of time before he dies can just believe in the name of Jesus for salvation and be a son of God according to John 1:12. Either that, or they can receive Him (via by a special prayer, i.e. the “Sinner's Prayer.”). The thief on the cross was not baptized and yet he was saved. Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before being water baptized (Acts of the Apostles 10:44-48). Obviously only a saved person can receive the Spirit. Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism does not save us in putting away the filth of the flesh. The words “filth of the flesh” is in reference to sin because similar words were used in 2 Corinthians 7:1. Granted, a believer will want to be water baptized so as to obey the Lord, but finding those right believers to be baptized by is extremely difficult. I believe we are living in the last days as per 2 Timothy 3:1-9.

You said:
...the prayer is nothing, but the faith is everything.

I disagree. The prayer is something special because it leads to connecting with receiving forgiveness with the Lord. This is one of the problems I have with my experience with the “Church of Christ.” There are many services I have attended where there is no call to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. There is no gospel of my salvation in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that is mentioned. No prayer or dedication is made. It's all about work, work, and no grace.

I believe we are saved by living holy unto the Lord, but this is done only after we are saved by God's grace. If there is no grace, there is no salvation.

You said:
It's just like a marriage vow, brother, except the your Husband has required that you trust Him in all that He says, and then He tells you to be baptized in His name. --It is truly that simple, it is truly how the gospel of Jesus Christ commences and ends.

I agree that declaring Jesus as Lord of your life and dedicating or vowing your life to follow everything He said is important and missing in today's churches. This is Romans 10:9. It is a truth that is missing today. The church needs to get to this truth. But I do not think that the lack of this being preached prevents others from being saved in other ways. If this was not the case, then nobody would be saved and have a true change of life by their acceptance of Christ genuinely. I think many start off correctly believing in one part of Scripture that is true, but then they can potentially fall away later due to a church's teaching on promoting how they can sin and still be saved. Take for example Chick Publications. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and was saved via by the tract “This Was Your Life” back in 1992. It was until recently I discovered that they appear to be for Belief Alone-ism. When I recently read David W. Daniel's book in defense on the King James being the Word of God, I had learned he preached that we are saved by “Believing in Christ alone + nothing mantra” (Which is a false misunderstanding on Ephesians 2:8-9). I believe Paul was talking about being saved by the 1st process of salvation (i.e. God's grace) in Ephesians 2:8-9 (cf. Ephesians 2:1). Paul was talking about how we are not saved by “Works Alone” without God's grace. This does not mean Paul did not teach salvation by Sanctifiation after being saved by God's grace (2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, Titus 1:16, 1 Corinthians 16:22).

You said:
Why not just obey Him, in all that He says?

Really? Have you not read any of my posts in this thread?
Did I not initially praise the tract you provided because it defended the 2nd process of salvation (i.e. Sanctification or living holy unto the Lord)?
I am for obeying in everything that the Lord tells us to do. I believe we are saved by two processes or works of God (under our free will cooperation). I believe we are saved by:

#1. God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ (which is an aspect of salvation that is without the deeds of the Law) (This is 1st work of God or the 1st step of salvation. This is “Initial Salvation“ or “Foundational Salvation.”) (Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, calling upon the name of the Lord, i.e. the Sinner's Prayer) (Romans 10:13), and confessing that “Jesus is Lord” (Romans 10:9) (Which can be done in the “Sinner's Prayer” or publicly before others) (Note: It can also include an invitation of receiving Christ, too - John 1:12).

#2. Sanctification (i.e. Holy living by God's power, which is putting away sin, doing good works, and obeying the commands that come from Jesus and His followers) (This is the 2nd Process of Salvation or the 2nd work of God done in our life after we are saved by God's grace).​

I reject “Belief Alone-ism” or “Sola Fide.”
James makes it clear that we are justified by works and not by faith alone according to James 2:24.

Side Note 1:

I just re-read the tract more carefully. I actually think the tract now is preaching another gospel because there is no gospel as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. I believe the tract promotes “Works Alone Salvationism” (without God's grace) because it denies calling upon the name of the Lord in prayer for salvation and the true gospel. If there was a place that it admits in calling upon the Lord by way of a special prayer for salvation, and the true gospel (according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), then please show me the page number in the tract.

A person needs to first be forgiven of their sin before they can obey.

Again, according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is defined as believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later according to the Scriptures. This is the gospel and it usually goes hand in hand with calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. the Sinner's Prayer) (See: Romans 10:13). The tract quotes Romans 10:13 about calling upon the name of the Lord, but it ignores this truth. How do you see calling upon the name of the Lord? Is that not the Sinner's Prayer? What do you do with 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? Do you ignore this gospel? This gospel is not present in the tract you provided. Without this gospel, a person cannot be saved. This is a serious error in the tract you presented.

I have no clue as to why Jesus died on the cross and was risen from the grave with the tract you gave. Obeying without the gospel of my salvation is not obedience. We need to first know about the gospel of our salvation in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. We need to know why Jesus died, and was risen. This truth is gone from your tract. Hence, the tract (you endorse) is preaching another gospel.

Side Note 2:

I also noticed that the tract subtly pushes “soul sleep.” While I believe the Lake of Fire will annihilate or erase the wicked after a certain amount of time, I do not think the story of the rich-man and Lazarus was metaphorical. There is no indication in the text that this is so. I believe Ecclesiastes 9:5 is possibly referring to how the wicked will go through long periods of sleep in hell, but this does not mean they are not conscious at other times. We have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word to piece together the truth on hell. Note: I do not believe the Bible teaches that the rich-man was screaming in pain within the flames. This means that Hollywood and or preachers who teach otherwise are not teaching something that is biblical. No verse or passage in the Bible teaches that hell is a place where people scream in the flames of hell. Although, the Bible teaches that hell is a real literal place that is extremely uncomfortable (i.e. it is a place of torment).
 
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Jesus left us with only Two Commandments......Believe.....Love
1John 3:23

Is that the correct answer?

No.

Jesus says,

“Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen” (‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19-20‬).​

Teaching others “all things” commanded to His disciples does not sound like just two commands.

The book of Acts says,

Acts of the Apostles 17:30 says,

“God… now commands all men everywhere to repent”​

Acts of the Apostles 10:42-43 says,

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”​

Pauls says,

“If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37).

“Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; ) That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.” (Ephesians 6:2-3).

“Tell the women to keep silent in the churches. For it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law; And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for women to speak in the church” (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).

“Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks disorderly” (2 Thessalonians 3:6).

vs. 14 “Keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ:
vs. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, and lay hold on eternal life, whereby you are called, and have professed a good profession before many witnesses” (1 Timothy 6:14, 1 Timothy 6:12).​

Also see 1 Timothy 4:6-16.

Jesus told us the 1st greatest commandment is this:

“Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength: this is the first commandment.” (Mark 12:29-30).​

Jesus gave us a NEW commandment, and it is more than just loving in general. We are to love the brethren in the same way that Christ loved the disciples.

A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if you have love one to another” (John 13:34-35).​

Meaning: We are to follow Christ's example in loving the brethren, but praying for them, and washing their feet, instructing them, cooking them meals, etc.

Peter commanded others to be baptized in the name of the Lord (Acts of the Apostles 10:42). Jesus said, “He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Matthew 10:40). Meaning, if they received the command of baptism from Peter, they were receiving not only Peter, but the Lord.
 
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Brother, I understand the point you are making, and what you have said thus far is true, however, it misses the point I'm making: the context of the tract illustrates what "special prayer" means, and it is not at all what you've described, for I too, by your definition, was also saved by 'special prayer', but that is not the case, because you have conflated 'special prayer' with repentance.

The prayer of repentance is not the magical incantation most preach, but the expression of someone who has believed the gospel, and has called on Christ to be their Lord: this is the commencement of a relationship, that requires faithfulness.

Most Mega-Churches treat the prayer of repentance, that calls on Christ to be your Lord, as a light thing, to be done after service by raising your hand; no, it is done after hearing the gospel, and it is done by calling on Christ to be your Lord, which is then immediately followed by obedience to Him in baptism, which is the first answer of a good conscience towards Him.

Christ commanded His ministers to preach His gospel, in His way, yet I don't see that anymore, but well meaning believers don't think it's a big deal, and Satan quickly agrees.

No, brother, special prayers cannot save, but calling out to Christ to be your Lord, and then getting baptized in His name, does.

The water is nothing, but the obedience is everything, the prayer is nothing, but the faith is everything.

It's just like a marriage vow, brother, except the your Husband has required that you trust Him in all that He says, and then He tells you to be baptized in His name. --It is truly that simple, it is truly how the gospel of Jesus Christ commences and ends.

Why not just obey Him, in all that He says?

A Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that "Repentance" means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

"Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can either refer to: The "Sinner's Prayer" (Initial Salvation) (Romans 10:13), and or the seasoned believer "Confessing one's sin" (Continued Salvation) (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1).

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin.”

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).​

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.
 
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Brother, I understand the point you are making, and what you have said thus far is true, however, it misses the point I'm making: the context of the tract illustrates what "special prayer" means, and it is not at all what you've described, for I too, by your definition, was also saved by 'special prayer', but that is not the case, because you have conflated 'special prayer' with repentance.

The prayer of repentance is not the magical incantation most preach, but the expression of someone who has believed the gospel, and has called on Christ to be their Lord: this is the commencement of a relationship, that requires faithfulness.

Most Mega-Churches treat the prayer of repentance, that calls on Christ to be your Lord, as a light thing, to be done after service by raising your hand; no, it is done after hearing the gospel, and it is done by calling on Christ to be your Lord, which is then immediately followed by obedience to Him in baptism, which is the first answer of a good conscience towards Him.

Christ commanded His ministers to preach His gospel, in His way, yet I don't see that anymore, but well meaning believers don't think it's a big deal, and Satan quickly agrees.

No, brother, special prayers cannot save, but calling out to Christ to be your Lord, and then getting baptized in His name, does.

The water is nothing, but the obedience is everything, the prayer is nothing, but the faith is everything.

It's just like a marriage vow, brother, except the your Husband has required that you trust Him in all that He says, and then He tells you to be baptized in His name. --It is truly that simple, it is truly how the gospel of Jesus Christ commences and ends.

Why not just obey Him, in all that He says?

The Gospel According to the Bible:

1 “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
 
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Is that the correct answer?

full


Jesus says,

“Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen” (‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19-20‬).​

Teaching others “all things” commanded to His disciples does not sound like just two commands.

The book of Acts says,

Acts of the Apostles 17:30 says,

“God… now commands all men everywhere to repent”​

Acts of the Apostles 10:42-43 says,

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”​

Pauls says,

“If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37).

“Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; ) That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.” (Ephesians 6:2-3).

“Tell the women to keep silent in the churches. For it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law; And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for women to speak in the church” (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).

“Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks disorderly” (2 Thessalonians 3:6).

vs. 14 “Keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ:
vs. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, and lay hold on eternal life, whereby you are called, and have professed a good profession before many witnesses” (1 Timothy 6:14, 1 Timothy 6:12).​

Also see 1 Timothy 4:6-16.

Jesus told us the 1st greatest commandment is this:

“Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength: this is the first commandment.” (Mark 12:29-30).​

Jesus gave us a NEW commandment, and it is more than just loving in general. We are to love the brethren in the same way that Christ loved the disciples.

A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if you have love one to another” (John 13:34-35).​

Meaning: We are to follow Christ's example in loving the brethren, but praying for them, and washing their feet, instructing them, cooking them meals, etc.

Peter commanded others to be baptized in the name of the Lord (Acts of the Apostles 10:42). Jesus said, “He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Matthew 10:40). Meaning, if they received the command of baptism from Peter, they were receiving not only Peter, but the Lord.

“And this is His Commandment, that we should Believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and Love one another, as He gave us Commandment”.........1John3:23
Do these two things and everything else will take care of itself....Jesus knew that when He said it....
 
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A Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that "Repentance" means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

"Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can either refer to: The "Sinner's Prayer" (Initial Salvation) (Romans 10:13), and or the seasoned believer "Confessing one's sin" (Continued Salvation) (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1).

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin.”

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).​

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

Repentance is a good thing- no doubt about it. It just does not save......unless you mean by “ repentance”, changing your mind from an Unbeliever in Jesus to a Believer in Jesus.....that is the Repentance That Saves ....
Faith in Jesus , manifested in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace is what Saves.....
 
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GenemZ

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The prayer of repentance is not the magical incantation most preach, but the expression of someone who has believed the gospel, and has called on Christ to be their Lord: this is the commencement of a relationship, that requires faithfulness.

Repent of what? Not everyone given the Gospel was told to repent. Are you aware of that? Peter preaching to the Gentiles did not mention the word "repent." Just to believe.

But, with Jews who had their religious resistance to the Gospel? They needed first to change their minds before being able to believe. These religious Jews were told to "change their minds" and believe.

You don't know how the word repentance was used and meant at the time the Bible was written. You need to learn that, and then *repent* of how you push the word "repentance" to mean. You are off base. Preaching what you do not understand, while demanding that others to follow.

You need to repent. For you need to repent about what you think repentance means!


7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’
for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. 10 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."​

See that? The religious Jews thought they had salvation by default, simply by being sons of Abraham. That was wrong thinking. They need to change their thinking (repent) before they could believe in Jesus to become saved for the first time. That was why they were told to repent.

Do you get it? That was how "repent" was used! Only when needed. Peter preached to the Gentiles who had no pretense of being favored by God, and Peter simply told them to believe and be saved! No need for repentance there!

Ironically.. Some need to repent of what they think repentance means. When used wrongly the Holy Spirit will not be in their words when they preach that kind of message.

So... repent!
 
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GenemZ

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Repentance is a good thing- no doubt about it. It just does not save......unless you mean by “ repentance”, changing your mind from an Unbeliever in Jesus to a Believer in Jesus.....that is the Repentance That Saves ....
Faith in Jesus , manifested in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace is what Saves.....
Repentance is needed to remove a barricade of some false notion that makes one feel they do not need to believe in Jesus to be saved.

Religious people are the most likely in need to repent (change their thinking that they think they are already accepted by God, or being taught there is more than one way to God)
 
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Repentance is a good thing- no doubt about it. It just does not save......unless you mean by “ repentance”, changing your mind from an Unbeliever in Jesus to a Believer in Jesus.....that is the Repentance That Saves ....
Faith in Jesus , manifested in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace is what Saves.....

Does repentance not save according to the Bible?

Is that the correct answer?

No. Most surely not.

Jesus said,

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
(Luke 13:3).​

Jesus said we will perish if we do not repent.
 
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