LDS Brigham Young and His Blood Atonement

Jamesone5 · Jun 6, 2020

He is the way said:
So how are they one??? Will you tell us what the Bible states???

You do not pay attention but I will list it one last time

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith,one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all.

mmksparbud · Jun 6, 2020

He is the way said:
So how are they one??? Will you tell us what the Bible states???

It says they are one---is that not enough for you? We are not meant to know every single detail of the Godhead or He would have provided every detail. Jesus said God is spirit. That is enough!! The bible says we have the Holy Spirit, He leads everyone, He is everywhere at the same time, THAT IS ENOUGH!! The bible says THEY ARE ONE GOD!!! THAT IS ENOUGH!! God does not anwer every single question! The rest is called FAITH!!! Something not taught in the LDS faith apparently---FAITH!!

YeshuaFan · Jun 6, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
Around 25 years ago, my local County Library had a section devoted to Mormon Journal of Discourses--mainly from sermons of Brigham Young. Then, before resigning my membership in the Mormon Church, I felt I had to really delve deep into what my former Mormon church taught and them pit that information against the Bible and my new-found Faith in what I found to be God's Only Word.

I had heard about the Blood Atonement practice and although the Mormon Church mostly tries to minimize it---it was very much a practice in the late 1800's. And, it still is somewhat practiced today as Ted Bundy and Gary Gilmore, of course chose the firing squad for their methods of execution. It is the only State that gives one that option-btw.

As I had heard from my Mormon mother that if I had lived back in the 1860's, that I might have suffered the Blood Atonement for leaving. So, God led me to investigate as Mormons do not look kindly on someone who becomes, what they refer to as an "apostate Mormon".

What I found back then and what I researched lately is basically the same. There is a reference to spilling of the blood of an apostate in the link below.

www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech20.htm

Although the control factor of Mormons is a lot less now, and if you live in a predominantly Mormon area, like I do, you will suffer a lot of what is referred to as "shunning". That shunning has gotten way less over the years. I was blessedly asked to give the Eulogy at my Mormon mother's funeral after assuring the Bishop that I would not speak on anything that could be construed as doctrinally controversial. I spoke from the Bible, of course. Interesting twist on that, is that God allowed me to be a part on my own mother's finding the True Christ about a week before she passed on after 91 years of being a Mormon.

I no longer get Mormon missionaries at my house as they must have realized it would be futile to try to bring me back. Had a few encounters over the years where the missionaries left frustrated. A lot of Mormons locally that I call friends will talk to me on the street and I generally initiate a conversation. Sometimes that friendliness and love will do more than debating the Bible.

Interesting that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, but guess the "prophet" missed that in his bible!

BigDaddy4 · Jun 6, 2020

mmksparbud said:
LOL!! You guys have an incredible lust for power! Being with God forever is just not enough for you, you must be gods also. It's amazing how strong that need to be gods is in you guys.

Yeah, this is something I just don't get. "If" they became gods, and were in charge of their own worlds and all that goes with that, just how much of their time can they spend in God's presence? If their versions of God the Father and Jesus have physical bodies, and their version of the Holy Spirit can only be in one place at a time (according to their theology), then how do all these "exalted men" get to be with God? Tuesday night home visits??

Peter1000 · Jun 6, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
I have detected that you only want to argue as I already told you how they are one. Do I have to somehow force you to read also?

Here is your last response on this subject:
I do not have to think of the Trinity, but Jesus said simply

John 10:30
I and My Father are one.”

He backs up that with part of His prayer which is this:
John 17:22
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

Very distinct and plain without any sort of man's imaginings that they are ONE.

Why do you not believe Christ when He simply said what He did?

Explain to me, from what you said here (see post 483) how God and Jesus are one. It does say that they are one, but how is that done? All you have ever told me is that they are one. I believe that, but I would like to know how they are one.

I believe you cannot answer the question, I believe no Christian can answer that question

I will be in one Body of Believers---you know---- as it says here:

That is absolutely true. But will that Body of Believers be 1 rather large Person (not 3 in 1 as in the Trinity, but millions in 1 as in the Body of the Believers)?

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith,one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all.

Unfortunately for Christians is there is no such thing as one body, and one Spirit. There are thousands of Christian churches all teaching different doctrines. Most teach the Trinity, but many different versions of the Trinity, most teach different ways to be saved. It is all over the place, but is certainly one body, and one Spirit in name only.

So again, you have not shown me how God and Jesus are one.
For instance, if they are one,
1) were they both born of Mary?
2) were they both baptized by John?
3) were they both crusified?
4) were they both resurrected?

This is what I am asking, how were they one? However they are one, we can be one, however they are one, we can be one with them, so how are they one?

Peter1000 · Jun 6, 2020

BigDaddy4 said:
Yeah, this is something I just don't get. "If" they became gods, and were in charge of their own worlds and all that goes with that, just how much of their time can they spend in God's presence? If their versions of God the Father and Jesus have physical bodies, and their version of the Holy Spirit can only be in one place at a time (according to their theology), then how do all these "exalted men" get to be with God? Tuesday night home visits??

I believe that the Gods are extremely mobile and have communication devices that are beyond our technologies.

Just think of our airplane history. In 1903 the Wright brothers invented flight. In 1914, just 11 years later we had our first commercial domestic air flights. In 1939, just 36 years later we were taking peope in big airplanes accross the atlantic. By 1963 we had first manned flight around the world and today we have machines flying out of our solar system and we are communicatig with it. All done in 117 years. Think what we could do in 10,000 years. In 10,000,000 years.

You just have no vision of what we are capable of doing, now add the power of God to that equation and it is truly unkown what we are capable of being and doing.

Jamesone5 · Jun 6, 2020

Peter1000 said:
Here is your last response on this subject:
I do not have to think of the Trinity, but Jesus said simply

John 10:30
I and My Father are one.”

He backs up that with part of His prayer which is this:
John 17:22
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

Very distinct and plain without any sort of man's imaginings that they are ONE.

Why do you not believe Christ when He simply said what He did?

Explain to me, from what you said here (see post 483) how God and Jesus are one. It does say that they are one, but how is that done? All you have ever told me is that they are one. I believe that, but I would like to know how they are one.

I believe you cannot answer the question, I believe no Christian can answer that question

That is absolutely true. But will that Body of Believers be 1 rather large Person (not 3 in 1 as in the Trinity, but millions in 1 as in the Body of the Believers)?

Unfortunately for Christians is there is no such thing as one body, and one Spirit. There are thousands of Christian churches all teaching different doctrines. Most teach the Trinity, but many different versions of the Trinity, most teach different ways to be saved. It is all over the place, but is certainly one body, and one Spirit in name only.

So again, you have not shown me how God and Jesus are one.
For instance, if they are one,
1) were they both born of Mary?
2) were they both baptized by John?
3) were they both crusified?
4) were they both resurrected?

This is what I am asking, how were they one? However they are one, we can be one, however they are one, we can be one with them, so how are they one?

Jesus has already perfected me and I am saved and nobody can take me out of the hand of Jesus. I am already perfected, so I need not read such foolishness from the bible or any other good books.----Peter1000

Anyone who makes this utterly foolish claims which you did in another thread---I have no time to debate with.

Foolishness from the Bible and Jesus has already perfected you----those assertions make me laugh. :ahah:

He is the way · Jun 6, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
You do not pay attention but I will list it one last time

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith,one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all.

So one God and Father of all, and one Lord Jesus Christ. Got it.

Jamesone5 · Jun 6, 2020

He is the way said:
So one God and Father of all, and one Lord Jesus Christ. Got it.

Where does these verses say one Lord Jesus Christ?

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith,one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all.

More Mormon assumptions?

He is the way · Jun 6, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
Where does these verses say one Lord Jesus Christ?

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith,one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all.

More Mormon assumptions?

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith,one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is NOT Lord? Perhaps you don't believe this scripture either:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 6, 2020

Peter1000 said:
I believe that the Gods are extremely mobile and have communication devices that are beyond our technologies.

Just think of our airplane history. In 1903 the Wright brothers invented flight. In 1914, just 11 years later we had our first commercial domestic air flights. In 1939, just 36 years later we were taking peope in big airplanes accross the atlantic. By 1963 we had first manned flight around the world and today we have machines flying out of our solar system and we are communicatig with it. All done in 117 years. Think what we could do in 10,000 years. In 10,000,000 years.

You just have no vision of what we are capable of doing, now add the power of God to that equation and it is truly unkown what we are capable of being and doing.

God needs communication devices??? Like in Sci-fi movies where they can communicate across the universe instantly?

Your gods truly are a work of fiction...

Jamesone5 · Jun 6, 2020

He is the way said:
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith,one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is NOT Lord? Perhaps you don't believe this scripture either:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

You Mormons play a shell game with you Lords and Gods

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Who is a God separately and who is Lord separately----, when?

He is the way · Jun 6, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
You Mormons play a shell game with you Lords and Gods

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Who is a God separately and who is Lord separately----, when?

The Father is the God of Christ:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jamesone5 · Jun 7, 2020

He is the way said:
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;one Lord, one faith,one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is NOT Lord? Perhaps you don't believe this scripture either:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

And Jesus changed His designation?

Same one God, designated also as Lord in this verse.

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Which of your two Gods or Lords are designated such in what place in the Bible?

He is the way · Jun 7, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
And Jesus changed His designation?

Same one God, designated also as Lord in this verse.

Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Which of your two Gods or Lords are designated such in what place in the Bible?

You still have not fingered it out?

Ironhold · Jun 7, 2020

mmksparbud said:
It says they are one---is that not enough for you?

What we're looking at is a contradiction.

Three-in-one is only plausible if one takes the intercessory prayer as being metaphorical when it comes to talking about the shared unity.

We're asking about what it means for three-in-one when it comes to a literal reading of the intercessory prayer.

In response, we're being told that we should just shut up and stop asking questions.

This is being taken as people being angry at themselves for not having an answer and taking that anger out on us.

We are not meant to know every single detail of the Godhead or He would have provided every detail.

...And yet somehow we are expected to have details of everything down to the last punctuation mark?

The difference is what now?

Something not taught in the LDS faith apparently---FAITH!!

To the contrary... when we've talked about faith, we've been mocked for it.

Jamesone5 · Jun 7, 2020

He is the way said:
You still have not fingered it out?

What? My mind is my finger?

Bizarre suggestions by Mormons.

He is the way · Jun 7, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
What? My mind is my finger?

Bizarre suggestions by Mormons.

Where is your mind?

Jamesone5 · Jun 7, 2020

He is the way said:
Where is your mind?

FIGURING out that Mormons want to drive people further away from their false Religion

Classic Mormon confusion:

He is the way said: ↑
You still have not fingered it out?

Peter1000 · Jun 7, 2020

Jamesone5 said:
FIGURING out that Mormons want to drive people further away from their false Religion

Classic Mormon confusion:

He is the way said: ↑
You still have not fingered it out?

So this easy mistake has thrown you completely into orbit and is a classical case for Mormon confusion.

You need to go to bed and wake up on the other side of the bed.

LDS Brigham Young and His Blood Atonement

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

It's a new season...

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

It's a new season...

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads