Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!

Religiot said:

No, genez, believing Christ, and obeying Him, those two combined, are the only way that the faith that God commands can be rendered, period. That is what the Spirit expressly teaches through the scriptures.

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Like the Scriptures which I gave you. Your computer must have a virus? You did not see them?

Also, how do you propose anyone distinguish between false and true doctrine?

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1.) By discerning the spirit of the person. What's in his heart.

2.) By what he lacks in his heart in regards to knowing Scripture with a correct interpretation.

3.) By what he willfully wants to reject.

Religiot said:

No, genez, my question was not 'how do you distinguish from true and false believers', no; it was specifically, 'how do you propose anyone distinguish between false and true doctrine'.

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If you have to ask? It proves you do not know how.

Do birds who fly south for the winter need to be trained in doing so?

Likewise, those who know the Spirit is guiding them have 'spiritual instincts' that kick in when false doctrine is thrown into the arena. The only hard part is not about knowing its false. Its about seeing a wasted life trying hard to have one.

Jesus said his yoke is easy....

Why would anyone want to be a false believer? You are either a believer who follows what is true. Or, a believer who follows what is false. Believers that end up accepting false doctrines have been duped by demons who inspire their thinking. For these believers resent faithful believers, just like demons do.

Yet? There are false believers who pretend to be a believer. Those ones are not simply sympathetic to demonic resentment and thinking. The one pretending to be a believer (pretentious belief) is demon possessed. Those are very easy to detect, unless some weak believer has a naturally strong religious streak in their natural nature.

Religiot said:

Yes, brother, I understand, because that post was not a direct response to your question, however, that post does illustrate that there is only one doctrine, which is that belief and obedience, the two, together, render faith.

--James and Paul do not teach two separate doctrines, but merely focus on particular elements of the same doctrine: Paul, for example, focuses on the requirement of belief in obedience for the rendering of what he calls the obedience of faith: James, on the other hand, focuses on the requirement of obedience in belief, for the rendering of what he deems living faith: both James and Paul presuppose the unity of belief and obedience. Paul illustrates this in Hebrews chapter 11, in a way that cannot leave any doubt as to what he means; while James, very concisely, makes the point in a way that leaves no wriggle room, even for the most slippery of snakes.

So you see, my brother, there is only one doctrine: the unity of belief and obedience, they, together, are both required, to render the faith through which God, by His grace, has chosen us to save.

Any belief in God, that precludes obedience, is a false belief.

Any obedience to God, that precludes belief, is worthless.

Godspeed.

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--James and Paul do not teach two separate doctrines, but merely focus on particular elements of the same doctrine: Paul, for example, focuses on the requirement of belief in obedience for the rendering of what he calls the obedience of faith: James, on the other hand, focuses on the requirement of obedience in belief, for the rendering of what he deems living faith: both James and Paul presuppose the unity of belief and obedience. Paul illustrates this in Hebrews chapter 11, in a way that cannot leave any doubt as to what he means; while James, very concisely, makes the point in a way that leaves no wriggle room, even for the most slippery of snakes.

I am having difficulty deciphering your post here in this part.....sounds like you May Be onto something here.....I have heard 50 explanations by those trying to reconcile James and Paul— some better than others—but they all end up being unsatisfying.
I firmly believe the Bible contains no errors and any “ contradictions” seem to be that way because of our limited understanding of things .....some day we will have all of the answers.....until that day however , it would be nice to hear a good explanation of these two “ seemingly” opposite -thinking views of Paul and James.....
Please try to simplify your thoughts so this half- senile old man get on the same page with you.....lol....

Religiot said:

Where did you hear this?

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In the Bible ......somewhere in the back, I think....

Blood Bought 1953 said:

In the Bible ......somewhere in the back, I think....

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Sorry....I can never resist using Homer Simpson’s line that showed his utter ignorance of the Bible.....lol

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Sorry....I can never resist using Homer Simpson’s line that showed his utter ignorance of the Bible.....lol

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Donuts are found in some Aramaic translations, but not in the Greek, nor Latin.

Religiot said:

The actual account of Paul's conversion contradicts what you've imagined, directly:

"And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, and desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: and he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, and hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: and here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: for I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests? But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ." --Acts 9:1-22

And what you've called a "stroke of magic," the Lord calls being born again.

My advice to you, brother, is that you cease promoting what you've imagined about the scriptures, and only promote what you know they say--which, of course, would require that you study and obey.

--For without obedience, no one can know what is made up, or what is of God:

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." --John 7:17

I hope this helps you.

Godspeed.

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And what you've called a "stroke of magic," the Lord calls being born again.

My advice to you, brother, is that you cease promoting what you've imagined about the scriptures, and only promote what you know they say--which, of course, would require that you study and obey.

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Paul was Saved on the Road to Damascus and he definitely got the most important things squared away immediately ....the Jesus he had been persecuting was the Son Of God.To preach that was not going much farther than the Disciples went...
As time went by , I believe more and more was revealed to Paul— I did not have near as much knowledge about the Things Of God the day I was Saved as I did 40 years down the road.
Paul said he did not receive the Gospel “ by men”.....that means he got it from Jesus Himself...... Paul was always catching flack that he was not equal to the Apostles, because they spent three years with Jesus and Paul spent None with Him during His Earthly Ministry to the Jews. It was no coincidence that Paul was in the desert for three years being taught by Jesus — when Paul was accused of not having the Authority Of The Disciples, he had something to point at— HE had spent three years with Jesus also !
God gave us brains to think and reason with.....do you really think Bible Discussions should begin and end with nothing but 100% Scripture and that only ? God has gifted His Children with Holy Spirit guided Teachers that know how to add interest and life to Scripture that put flesh and blood on Biblical events —- most of the time it makes us appreciate the men and women of the Bible ......sometimes we forget that they were a lot like us— human beings....
Do the Bible Teachers you listen to never stray from verbatim , “ every word I say must come straight from Scripture “ Sermons or I must keep my mouth shut?”
I share interesting thoughts that I have heard mainly from other teachers over the years.....things that are Biblical and make sense and NEVER violate God’s Word or even the “ spirit” of the Word.Any conjecture that I or those that I listen to may be 100% mistaken, but I would not bet on it.....

This is not in the Bible , but I believe it to be True......what about you?

God did not place His salvation in the complex but in the simple-> come to Jesus with nothing and ask for Him alone and receive everything

Using your Logic, such statements would be forbidden.....

Religiot said:

genez, just because I've asked how, doesn't mean that I don't know how, c'mon; I've asked you to see if you knew, and now I see that you don't, because you keep going back to the people, to decipher whether or not they are true believers... genez, you cannot determine truth by the messenger:

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." --Deuteronomy 13:1-5

Truth can only be determined by those who obey God:

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." --John 7:17

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False teachers will quote the same Scriptures.

Religiot said:

Yes, different topics, in some cases, but the same doctrine in all cases.

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Isn't it two doctrines?
Paul's countered Judaizers' attempts to incorporate the necessity of the "works" of the Mosaic Law into Christianity/salvation, and James' was to keep the repentant loving their neighbors as themselves with their deeds (works), and that as their testimony of the truth of God..

Religiot said:

You see, faith is comprised of two elements, belief and obedience, respectively; therefore, a man must first believe, before he can obey, and his obedience, of course, will then follow from belief; wherefore his works will then be living, and his faith will then be living.

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Faith will not be living if the person is simply disciplined and attempts to perform what he believes in the energy of his flesh. Muslims do not have great faith, but religiously will commit suicide in the name of what they believe.

Obedience to what one is told to believe means nothing unless the person has confessed all known sins (1 John 1:9) and is being filled with the Spirit who should guide that believer into having the spiritual power do it

Blood Bought 1953 said:

You said “ Believers don’t have dead Faith”
One of the things James was addressing in his Letter was that very thing— DEAD FAITH.....he was talking to “ BRETHREN” ,that would be Believers.In his letter he is accusing them of having a faith that was Dead......This would prove you wrong.....Believers CAN have Dead Faith....

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"Dead faith" is a differentiator between believers and unbelievers.
If they believed, they will manifest that faith.
If they don't believe, they won't manifest a faith in God or in Christ.

James addressed the church ABOUT unbelievers, warning them not to go down the same dark path.