Do Two Jerusalems kill the Premill doctrine?

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DavidPT

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Can you separate the New Covenant from the Second Coming of Christ?

I think both of those texts from Zechariah are describing the future Second Coming of Christ.

.

Now that I think about it, I think you already made that clear, in the past, when you and I were discussing this then. Apparently it slipped my mind until you reminded me here.

Why do you believe that Zechariah 14:16-19 will continue like that forever and ever without end, since that would have to be the logical conclusion if there is no period of time post the 2nd coming that would prevent that from happening?

The following would have to be the way to understand this, assuming your version of Amil rather than Premil.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that for forever and ever, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that forever and ever, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; for forever and ever there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations, for forever and ever this punishment shall be in effect, that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


If you disagree with that, explain how you think I got any of that wrong?


Versus Premil---

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles during the thousand years.
17 And it shall be, that during the thousand years, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if during the thousand years the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations, during the thousand years, that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Now that I think about it, I think you already made that clear, in the past, when you and I were discussing this then. Apparently it slipped my mind until you reminded me here.

Why do you believe that Zechariah 14:16-19 will continue like that forever and ever without end, since that would have to be the logical conclusion if there is no period of time post the 2nd coming that would prevent that from happening?

The following would have to be the way to understand this, assuming your version of Amil rather than Premil.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that for forever and ever, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that forever and ever, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; for forever and ever there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations, for forever and ever this punishment shall be in effect, that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


If you disagree with that, explain how you think I got any of that wrong?


Versus Premil---

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles during the thousand years.
17 And it shall be, that during the thousand years, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if during the thousand years the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations, during the thousand years, that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

These things have new covenant realities and it does not mean a return to the law but rather they were described in familiar terms of the law when they were given.

The Old Testament prophets got visions as to what the new covenant arrangement was going to be like but obviously they had nothing to liken it to or enlighten their audience with. They normally couched it in Old Testament terms that could be easily understood. The Old Testament Jew saw the unfolding plan of God with Jerusalem as the epi-center, but they struggled to see the seismic change from the earthly to the heavenly in the New Testament. When the heavenly man came the heavenly took over from the earthly as the focus. This occurred in everything.
 
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mkgal1

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The EMpire fell, not the city. Peter wrote from Babylon when He fled Israel! James never mentioned Babylon!

Paul went to Jerusalem to present the gospel of the Gentiles He preached and to argue against teh Judiazers!
Cite your source for this, because I read this in many articles:

Quote: From this period to the fall of Assyria in the late 7th century BCE, there was a continual struggle between Aramaean or associated Chaldean tribesmen and the Assyrians for political control of the city.
Peaceful control of Babylon was impossible, and in 689 he ordered destruction of the city.
-https://www.britannica.com/place/Babylon-ancient-city-Mesopotamia-Asia

And pictures like this, saying the ruins are from around the 7th century BC

Ur-Nassiriyah.jpg


1 Peter 5:13 - The church in Babylon, chosen together with you, sends you greetings, as does my son Mark.

You think Peter was writing from Mesopotamia/Iraq region?

Google Image Result for https://www.bible-history.com/map_babylonian_captivity/map_captivity_of_judah_babylon_shg.jpg
 
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BABerean2

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Now that I think about it, I think you already made that clear, in the past, when you and I were discussing this then. Apparently it slipped my mind until you reminded me here.

Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The End...

How much clearer could it be?

How many "heathen" do you expect to survive His Second Coming?

.

 
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mkgal1

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Quoting Adam Maarschalk:
John wrote the book of Revelation in Jesus’ generation, and there we see a tragic picture of what had become of His former dwelling place, as John describes “Babylon the great”:

And [the angel] cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird!” (Revelation 18:2).

Someone may object here and say that Babylon the great is not Jerusalem. However, if we pay attention, John does positively identify the great city, Babylon. In the previous chapter, John is shown “the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication” (Rev. 17:1-2). She is shown sitting on a great beast (verse 3), and on her forehead are written these words: “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” (verse 5). John sees her drunk with the blood of the saints and the martyrs (verse 6). The angel says to John, “The woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth” (verse 18). So the following is clear:

The harlot = Babylon the great = the great city
Jerusalem, a Dwelling Place of Demons
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Well done. This shows that the kingdom of God was taken from the apostate religious leaders and given to those that would bear much fruit - just as Jesus had prophesied:

Mark 12 BSB <------Parable of the wicked tenants
The prophecy of the coming of the kingdom that covers the earth and has not end is clearly at the 2nd coming. The kingdom of heaven is for all the saved. The 2nd coming fulfills hundreds of prophecies specific towards the Jews with clear distinctions between Jew and Gentile. in the day of vengeance of God it is a glorious day for Israel Read Isaiah 61. The day of Jacobs's trouble is the 2nd half of the 7 year tribulation. IN Dan 7 Jews are being persecuted for 3 1/2 years the same amount of time that the beast in Rev is also persecuting them. The return of the temple is a very real possibility in these days with Israel back as a nation again. Read Eze 36-40 and see what promises are made to those who have been gathered back to the mountains of Israel which had long been desolate. They are promised to have the reproach of nations removed, to get a new heart just like promised in Jer 31. In Luke 1 Jesus is supposed to keep the oaths to the fathers and grant that Israel from that time on will worship and serve the LORD in safety and in holiness all the days of their lives. This deliverance is exactly what happens at Armageddon and in Zech 14 and Dan 7 and Isaiah 61 and Hosea 1
9 Then God said:
“Call his name Lo-Ammi,[fn]
For you are not My people,
And I will not be your God.
“Yet the number of the children of Israel
Shall be as the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered.
And it shall come to pass
In the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’[fn]
There it shall be said to them,
You are sons of the living God.’
11 Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel
Shall be gathered together,
And appoint for themselves one head;
And they shall come up out of the land,
For great will be the day of Jezreel!

all these passages have the before and after picture...the 3rd temple is all prepared for when the world has never been so wicked since the flood and the odds of one world government are increasing daily. It seems obvious which way the momentum and direction events are heading...look up redemption draws near.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The End...

How much clearer could it be?

How many "heathen" do you expect to survive His Second Coming?

.

Amen! Let us see what the Saviour said on this important matter. The Gospel message is summed up in those infamous and immortal words of Christ in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

We see the whole essence, force and target-group of the Gospel message in this passage. It is a message from the heart of God to the heart of all mankind, in order to rescue him from his fallen state and deliver Him from the wrath to come

Jesus said in John 5:23b-24, “He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

The Bible makes clear that people are either saved or lost. Premil creates an imaginary group of half-saved humans that Scripture knows nothing about in order to sustain Premil. Who are they? Where do we find them in Scripture? They are nowhere to be found! This can only be found in the Premil writings.

John the Baptist said in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

If a man loves Christ He is saved and will escape the wrath of God, if he doesn't he is under the wrath of God. Simple!!!
 
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mkgal1

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Something else about the use of the name "Babylon " as Adam Maarschalk has written:

Duncan Mackenzie's article has helped me to understand that “Babylon the Great” here was more than just a physical city. It was also a religious system full of abominations, old covenant temple-based Judaism. In Revelation 18 God commands His people regarding Babylon, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues” (Rev. 18:4). We know from Revelation 1 that John’s immediate audience didn’t live in Jerusalem, but in Asia Minor. So this was not a command to flee from the city of Jerusalem. - The Harlot of Revelation 17 and its Relationship to Old Covenant Israel
 
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sovereigngrace

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The prophecy of the coming of the kingdom that covers the earth and has not end is clearly at the 2nd coming. The kingdom of heaven is for all the saved. The 2nd coming fulfills hundreds of prophecies specific towards the Jews with clear distinctions between Jew and Gentile. in the day of vengeance of God it is a glorious day for Israel Read Isaiah 61. The day of Jacobs's trouble is the 2nd half of the 7 year tribulation. IN Dan 7 Jews are being persecuted for 3 1/2 years the same amount of time that the beast in Rev is also persecuting them. The return of the temple is a very real possibility in these days with Israel back as a nation again. Read Eze 36-40 and see what promises are made to those who have been gathered back to the mountains of Israel which had long been desolate. They are promised to have the reproach of nations removed, to get a new heart just like promised in Jer 31. In Luke 1 Jesus is supposed to keep the oaths to the fathers and grant that Israel from that time on will worship and serve the LORD in safety and in holiness all the days of their lives. This deliverance is exactly what happens at Armageddon and in Zech 14 and Dan 7 and Isaiah 61 and Hosea 1
9 Then God said:
“Call his name Lo-Ammi,[fn]
For you are not My people,
And I will not be your God.
“Yet the number of the children of Israel
Shall be as the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered.
And it shall come to pass
In the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’[fn]
There it shall be said to them,
You are sons of the living God.’
11 Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel
Shall be gathered together,
And appoint for themselves one head;
And they shall come up out of the land,
For great will be the day of Jezreel!

all these passages have the before and after picture...the 3rd temple is all prepared for when the world has never been so wicked since the flood and the odds of one world government are increasing daily. It seems obvious which way the momentum and direction events are heading...look up redemption draws near.

Pretribbers rip Jacob's troubles from its historic old covenant setting in the book of Jeremiah, and its clear description of the Babylonian exile, and translate it to some imaginary seven-year period at the end, to support their end-time beliefs.

A careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the end of time. It rather describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.

Jacob's trouble is shown to relate to Babylonian captivity which occurred back in Nebuchadrezzar’s day. Let us let the Bible speak for itself.

Jeremiah 1:3 “It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.”

Jeremiah 2:27-28: “they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us. But where are thy gods that thou hast made thee? let them arise, if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble: for according to the number of thy cities are thy gods, O Judah.”

Jeremiah 8:14-15: “assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD. We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble! "

Jeremiah 11:10-12: They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them. Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble.”

Jeremiah 14:7: “O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou it for thy name's sake: for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against thee. O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble.

Jeremiah 15:2: “And it shall come to pass, if they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them, Thus saith the LORD; Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.”

Jeremiah 20:4: “For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will make thee a terror to thyself, and to all thy friends: and they shall fall by the sword of their enemies, and thine eyes shall behold it: and I will give all Judah into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall carry them captive into Babylon, and shall slay them with the sword.”

Jeremiah 25:9-11: Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”

Jeremiah 29:1: “Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon."

Jeremiah 30:3-7: “For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it. And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. "

Jeremiah 30:10-11: “Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.”

This was speaking of Babylon at the time. It reveals a consistent scriptural truth, the vessels God uses to chasten His people, He then casts away. It was only the last few books that were post-exile. As promised, Israel after chastisement was delivered. Babylon was utterly destroyed. They were only one of many nations over the centuries. Today in this New Testament era, those who oppose God's only nation the Church face the same outcome.

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 32:44: “Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.”

Jeremiah 51:1: Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind; And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about. Against him that bendeth let the archer bend his bow, and against him that lifteth himself up in his brigandine: and spare ye not her young men; destroy ye utterly all her host. Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and they that are thrust through in her streets. For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.”

If this was a legal case it would be a closed case. I believe it is absolutely water-tight. The lawyer would simply say: “I rest my case.” I don’t believe there is any question that an objective analyze of this book would come to any other conclusion than the fact that Jeremiah is describing Israel’s captivity in Babylon in his day. There is no mention (or context) of end-times in the prophet’s writings on this matter. Quite the opposite.

The day of trouble that is being highlighted happened long ago in the old covenant period. It does not relate to some supposed future period after Christ returns and saves Israel. Whoever is not saved when Jesus comes is immediately and eternally destroyed.

Many have all been infected with the Scofield interpretation of Scripture instead of the Holy Spirit’s interpretation of the same. I can only conclude that the future location of Jacob’s trouble is a Pretrib invention, misconception and/or misinterpretation.
 
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DavidPT

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Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The End...

How much clearer could it be?

How many "heathen" do you expect to survive His Second Coming?

.



What you propose is highly unlikely, or better yet, not even possible, in light of the following, though.

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

This verse says---And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.


And this verse says---And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14:16 indicates there are survivors from all the nations that came against Jerusalem in verse 2, and then some are destroyed in verse 16, where that obviously has to be meaning Revelation 19:21, for one. So why aren't these survivors destroyed during Zechariah 14:12 with the rest of them, IOW, why weren't they destroyed during Revelation 19:21? Because if they are, how can verse 16 even come to pass concerning them if there is not even one single survivor remaining of the nations that came against Jerusalem in verse 2?

How can anyone logically be expected to come up from year to year, if everyone on the planet besides the saints that put on immortality at the last trump, are all destroyed in a single day, meaning Revelation 19:21, thus nowhere to even fit---shall even go up from year to year to? Yet Zechariah 14:16-19 undeniably tells us that after Zechariah 14:12 is fulfilled, there are survivors that are required to go up from year to year, or else. It's impossible to fit from year to year in a single day, assuming Revelation 19:21 is fulfilled within a single 24 hour day or less.

You're not even remotely being logical here. And here's another reason why. What precedes the 2nd coming? The 42 month reign of the beast, thus no one that remains of the nations that surround Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:2, would be going up from year to year, in any sense, in order to fulfill Zechariah 14:16-21 during the 42 month reign of the beast, assuming that were to precede the 42 month reign of the beast.
 
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sovereigngrace

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What you propose is highly unlikely, or better yet, not even possible, in light of the following, though.

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

This verse says---And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.


And this verse says---And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14:16 indicates there are survivors from all the nations that came against Jerusalem in verse 2, and then some are destroyed in verse 16, where that obviously has to be meaning Revelation 19:21, for one. So why aren't these survivors destroyed during Zechariah 14:16 with the rest of them, IOW, why weren't they destroyed during Revelation 19:21? Because if they are, how can verse 16 even come to pass concerning them if there is not even one single survivor remaining of the nations that came against Jerusalem in verse 2? How can anyone logically be expected to come up from year to year, if everyone on the planet besides the saints that put on immortality at the last trump, are all destroyed in a single day, meaning Revelation 19:21, thus nowhere to even fit---shall even go up from year to year to?

You're not even remotely being logical here. And here's another reason why. What precedes the 2nd coming? The 42 month reign of the beast, thus no one that remains of the nations that surround Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:2, would be going up from year to year, in any sense, in order to fulfill Zechariah 14:16-21 during the 42 month reign of the beast, assuming that were to precede the 42 month reign of the beast.

Your doctrine rewards "the nations that have come against Jerusalem" by letting them inherit your alleged future millennium for their evil. This is just a fallacy.

How can this millennium Premils imagine have “every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16-17) yet at the same time because Jerusalem is "holy" place a prohibition that "there shall no strangers pass through her any more" (Joel 3:17) and “No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel” (Ezekiel 44:9)? This doesn't make sense.

According to repeated Scripture, no one survives the second coming. Corruption cannot inherit incorruption. The Premil theory will never happen.
 
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sovereigngrace

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What you propose is highly unlikely, or better yet, not even possible, in light of the following, though.

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

This verse says---And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.


And this verse says---And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14:16 indicates there are survivors from all the nations that came against Jerusalem in verse 2, and then some are destroyed in verse 16, where that obviously has to be meaning Revelation 19:21, for one. So why aren't these survivors destroyed during Zechariah 14:16 with the rest of them, IOW, why weren't they destroyed during Revelation 19:21? Because if they are, how can verse 16 even come to pass concerning them if there is not even one single survivor remaining of the nations that came against Jerusalem in verse 2? How can anyone logically be expected to come up from year to year, if everyone on the planet besides the saints that put on immortality at the last trump, are all destroyed in a single day, meaning Revelation 19:21, thus nowhere to even fit---shall even go up from year to year to?

You're not even remotely being logical here. And here's another reason why. What precedes the 2nd coming? The 42 month reign of the beast, thus no one that remains of the nations that surround Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:2, would be going up from year to year, in any sense, in order to fulfill Zechariah 14:16-21 during the 42 month reign of the beast, assuming that were to precede the 42 month reign of the beast.

Christ is the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles, as Jesus delivered us from spiritual bondage, which Egypt symbolizes. There is no lapse back to abolished OT rituals, i.e. animal sacrifices. When people submit their lives to Him then blessing ensues. When they reject Christ then judgement ensues. That is all Zechariah 14 is saying. Simple!

Christ’s appearance at His First Advent was the fulfilment of the Feast of Tabernacles. Christ has become our permanent resting place and covering (Hebrews 4). There is no need to introduce and old impotent system that Christ abolished in His person and ministry. Zechariah basically described spiritual truths pertaining to the new covenant period in terms he was familiar with. He was not blessed with a full revelation of atoning work of Christ. Whilst the OT saints had a veil over them in regard to the new covenant we today have the benefit of looking back and seeing that fulfillment in Christ. There is therefore no return to OT rituals or temple sacrifices in Zechariah 14 but rather a veiled prediction of what Christ accomplished at the cross.

Zechariah 14 describes the global worship of God and identifies it specifically with one of the Jewish feasts the feast of tabernacles. Because Zechariah’s audience was exclusively Old Testament Jews, he tries to depict the impending New Testament era/economy in terms that would be easily understood by the listener/reader. Whilst the detail described in Zechariah 14 was presented in terms of the law (which his reader could fully relate to), it does not in any way suggest a return to the law; rather, the detail has new covenant realities today.

The prophecy was not intended to be a scrupulous literal account of the new economy but rather a general overview of this new arrangement. When the Old Testament prophets described an improved economy, they described it in terms that made sense to the old covenant Israelites to whom they were writing. Thus, it is logical that a future state would be described in old covenant terms, even though these terms would not be an exact outline of the approaching condition.
 
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BABerean2

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What you propose is highly unlikely, or better yet, not even possible, in light of the following, though.

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

This verse says---And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.


And this verse says---And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14:16 indicates there are survivors from all the nations that came against Jerusalem in verse 2, and then some are destroyed in verse 16, where that obviously has to be meaning Revelation 19:21, for one. So why aren't these survivors destroyed during Zechariah 14:12 with the rest of them, IOW, why weren't they destroyed during Revelation 19:21? Because if they are, how can verse 16 even come to pass concerning them if there is not even one single survivor remaining of the nations that came against Jerusalem in verse 2?

How can anyone logically be expected to come up from year to year, if everyone on the planet besides the saints that put on immortality at the last trump, are all destroyed in a single day, meaning Revelation 19:21, thus nowhere to even fit---shall even go up from year to year to? Yet Zechariah 14:16-19 undeniably tells us that after Zechariah 14:12 is fulfilled, there are survivors that are required to go up from year to year, or else. It's impossible to fit from year to year in a single day, assuming Revelation 19:21 is fulfilled within a single 24 hour day or less.

You're not even remotely being logical here. And here's another reason why. What precedes the 2nd coming? The 42 month reign of the beast, thus no one that remains of the nations that surround Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:2, would be going up from year to year, in any sense, in order to fulfill Zechariah 14:16-21 during the 42 month reign of the beast, assuming that were to precede the 42 month reign of the beast.


Keep ignoring the New Covenant tabernacle, who is Jesus Christ, and the New Covenant feast, which was instituted at the Last Supper, and you will probably be able to make your doctrine work.

.

.
 
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jgr

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IN Dan 7 Jews are being persecuted for 3 1/2 years the same amount of time that the beast in Rev is also persecuting them.

There are no persecuted Jews in either Daniel 7 or Revelation. There are no Jews at all in Daniel 7 (the word does not appear in the chapter), and the only references to Jews in Revelation associate them with the synagogue of Satan (Revelation 2:9; 3:9).

The persecutions appearing in Daniel and Revelation refer exclusively to those against the saints, i.e. the true Church of God.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Christ is the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles, as Jesus delivered us from spiritual bondage, which Egypt symbolizes. There is no lapse back to abolished OT rituals, i.e. animal sacrifices. When people submit their lives to Him then blessing ensues. When they reject Christ then judgement ensues. That is all Zechariah 14 is saying. Simple!

Christ’s appearance at His First Advent was the fulfilment of the Feast of Tabernacles. Christ has become our permanent resting place and covering (Hebrews 4). There is no need to introduce and old impotent system that Christ abolished in His person and ministry. Zechariah basically described spiritual truths pertaining to the new covenant period in terms he was familiar with. He was not blessed with a full revelation of atoning work of Christ. Whilst the OT saints had a veil over them in regard to the new covenant we today have the benefit of looking back and seeing that fulfillment in Christ. There is therefore no return to OT rituals or temple sacrifices in Zechariah 14 but rather a veiled prediction of what Christ accomplished at the cross.

Zechariah 14 describes the global worship of God and identifies it specifically with one of the Jewish feasts the feast of tabernacles. Because Zechariah’s audience was exclusively Old Testament Jews, he tries to depict the impending New Testament era/economy in terms that would be easily understood by the listener/reader. Whilst the detail described in Zechariah 14 was presented in terms of the law (which his reader could fully relate to), it does not in any way suggest a return to the law; rather, the detail has new covenant realities today.

The prophecy was not intended to be a scrupulous literal account of the new economy but rather a general overview of this new arrangement. When the Old Testament prophets described an improved economy, they described it in terms that made sense to the old covenant Israelites to whom they were writing. Thus, it is logical that a future state would be described in old covenant terms, even though these terms would not be an exact outline of the approaching condition.
if Zechariah is not supposed to be literal it is odd that it presents so much specific detail that makes no sense if it is an allegory. The description of how the slain that day are killed is not a metaphor, the specific that on this day Jerusalem is overrun and the women ravished and half the city is taken is not an allegory but very specific details. The LORD comes with his saints and the mount of Olives does not just split but it splits creating a river with two directions that flows year round. It forms valleys with specific boundaries. This river is said to flow east in one on its paths. This would take the new river into the dead sea. The dead sea is prophsied in Eze 47 to be healed and become a great fishing economy with a specific number of the kinds of fish that are in it. The Lord died on passover, was put in the grave on the feast of unleavened bread and raised on the feast of 1st fruits. The feast of tabernacles, atonement and trumpets are the feast to still be fulfilled.
 
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sovereigngrace

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if Zechariah is not supposed to be literal it is odd that it presents so much specific detail that makes no sense if it is an allegory. The description of how the slain that day are killed is not a metaphor, the specific that on this day Jerusalem is overrun and the women ravished and half the city is taken is not an allegory but very specific details. The LORD comes with his saints and the mount of Olives does not just split but it splits creating a river with two directions that flows year round. It forms valleys with specific boundaries. This river is said to flow east in one on its paths. This would take the new river into the dead sea. The dead sea is prophsied in Eze 47 to be healed and become a great fishing economy with a specific number of the kinds of fish that are in it. The Lord died on passover, was put in the grave on the feast of unleavened bread and raised on the feast of 1st fruits. The feast of tabernacles, atonement and trumpets are the feast to still be fulfilled.

I think there are aspects of literal and symbolic in most passages in Scripture. Zechariah 14 is not unique. God spoke to Israel in Numbers12:6, explaining: “Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

The English Standard Version finishes: “With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

As John Gill explained: “it was not under figures and allegories, and parables and dark representations of things, that the law of the decalogue, and other laws, statutes, and ordinances, and the proclamation the Lord made of himself, as the Lord gracious, merciful, &c. were delivered unto Moses, but in plain words and clear expressions; not in such enigmatical, parabolical, and allegorical terms as many of the visions and prophecies of Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Amos, and Zechariah, were exhibited to them.”

John Gill teaches: “under the Old Testament dispensation, these things were not so clearly revealed as now; they were the fellowship of the mystery hid in God, the treasure of Gospel truths hid in the field of the Scriptures; they were wrapped up in the dark figures and shadows of the ceremonial law, and expressed in obscure prophecies; they were kept secret since the beginning of the world, from ages and generations past, and, not so made known, as now, to the holy apostles and prophets; a more full and clear knowledge of them was reserved to Gospel times.”

God spoke to the prophets of Israel in visions, dreams, parables and riddles. For example, we often come across have the phrase “in the visions” in the Old Testament describing God revealing Himself and His truth to the prophets (Genesis 46:2, 2 Chronicles 9:29, 26:5, Job 4:13, Ezekiel 1:1, 8:3, 40:2, Daniel 2:28, 4:9–10, 13, 7:1, 7, 13 and 15). The Prophet Ezekiel put it like this and Ezekiel 20:49: “Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?”

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.


The New Testament authors saw Jesus as the ultimate realization of the Old Testament revelation of God, given to Moses and the prophets, regarding Israel’s deliverer. All this was said in regard to different key aspects of Christ’s earthly mission, including His life, death and resurrection. He realized every type. He accomplished every promise. He was salvation. He was Israel’s redeemer. He was their anticipated Messiah. He was the decisive goal.

Dan 12:8 I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.


We do know that the old covenant prophets were looking forward through a glazed glass to a new arrangement that they couldn't fully comprehend. They did not have the full revelation we have.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
 
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jgr

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The return of the temple is a very real possibility in these days with Israel back as a nation again.

Bring it on. I'm stocked up on popcorn.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII


Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and opressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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I think there are aspects of literal and symbolic in most passages in Scripture. Zechariah 14 is not unique. God spoke to Israel in Numbers12:6, explaining: “Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

The English Standard Version finishes: “With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

As John Gill explained: “it was not under figures and allegories, and parables and dark representations of things, that the law of the decalogue, and other laws, statutes, and ordinances, and the proclamation the Lord made of himself, as the Lord gracious, merciful, &c. were delivered unto Moses, but in plain words and clear expressions; not in such enigmatical, parabolical, and allegorical terms as many of the visions and prophecies of Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Amos, and Zechariah, were exhibited to them.”

John Gill teaches: “under the Old Testament dispensation, these things were not so clearly revealed as now; they were the fellowship of the mystery hid in God, the treasure of Gospel truths hid in the field of the Scriptures; they were wrapped up in the dark figures and shadows of the ceremonial law, and expressed in obscure prophecies; they were kept secret since the beginning of the world, from ages and generations past, and, not so made known, as now, to the holy apostles and prophets; a more full and clear knowledge of them was reserved to Gospel times.”

God spoke to the prophets of Israel in visions, dreams, parables and riddles. For example, we often come across have the phrase “in the visions” in the Old Testament describing God revealing Himself and His truth to the prophets (Genesis 46:2, 2 Chronicles 9:29, 26:5, Job 4:13, Ezekiel 1:1, 8:3, 40:2, Daniel 2:28, 4:9–10, 13, 7:1, 7, 13 and 15). The Prophet Ezekiel put it like this and Ezekiel 20:49: “Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?”

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.


The New Testament authors saw Jesus as the ultimate realization of the Old Testament revelation of God, given to Moses and the prophets, regarding Israel’s deliverer. All this was said in regard to different key aspects of Christ’s earthly mission, including His life, death and resurrection. He realized every type. He accomplished every promise. He was salvation. He was Israel’s redeemer. He was their anticipated Messiah. He was the decisive goal.

Dan 12:8 I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.


We do know that the old covenant prophets were looking forward through a glazed glass to a new arrangement that they couldn't fully comprehend. They did not have the full revelation we have.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
lets see you invented a way for the prophecies given that make perfect sense taken literally that interlock and tell exactly the same story as all the other prophets and dovetail exactly with what a literal interpretation of the new testament to arrive at the same place the LORD coming with His saints and slaying the armies of antichrist and then setting up a kingdom that covers the earth and has no end. This case you presented does not hold the smell test with how accurate zechariah was in aspects regarding the 1st advent of Jesus. Jesus came on a literal foal of donkey and was betrayed for a literal 30 pieces of silver with the money going to the house of the potter. Now you want to dismiss the literal interpretation when the events described are lining up exactly as predicted and ready to fall like dominoes in sequential order as taken in a literal fashion.
Do you see the world moving towards global government? The UN has created a thing called the UN earth charter which is a new age ark of the covenant that is actually carried around on poles and has set this in the UN building. Symbolically this is replacing the 10 commandments as a world ideal. The UN also boast the verse of Isaiah promising men shall beast their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks and they shall learn war no more. This verse is going to be used by antichrist promising peace and security. The US has been targeted as necessary to fall to bring in a one world government. The US is falling as we speak and we are now in the early stages of hyperinflation. The global financial system when taken down will bring in exactly what rev 6 says about a days wage for a quart of wheat and peace being taken from the earth so that men will kill one another and 1/4 shall die by this including the beasts which would include micro organisms like bacterium.
We see how Bill Gates is working towards a mandatory vaccine for the globe and also that the ID 20202 project is going to roll out a global mandatory tatoo type ID so you can be tracked and scanned everywhere. This is coinciding with a global movement to replace cash and the IMF and rest of the world have plans and a structure for the Ne World post dollar era. This is run by the same banking elite that ran the central banks around the world and this is a consolidation of power and organization. So with AI the beast will have artificial omniscience and omnipresence. When the LORD comes in power and authority He will leave no trace of man's government and the binding of Satan and reign of righteousness over the whole earth will not look anything like the last 2000 years. Jesus will rule with a rod of iron and no abortion, inappropriate content, corruption in government, drug use, wars or any other abomination will be tolerated.
The 2nd coming new and old testament have the LORD coming to Israel when armies are there and the dead will be many. This is when Satan is bound. the 1000 years in between show that when he is released Jerusalem will be surrounded and then that is it game over... great white throne time and the New Jerusalem. All this makes sense from a literal belief that the passages are future. Now if you think about the mathematical of compound probabilities which some math guys did for Jesus fulfilling a series of literal prophecies you get very quickly to a number so large that your mind cannot comprehend the size of it.
So if you take the odds of the nation of Israel being scattered into all the world and then being regathered as nation that is a good one to start with. Then they have to come back with a heart of stone. They would have survive against many threats and eventually have the return of the daily sacrifice. Dan 9 spoke of the Messiah coming and noted the city Jerusalem would be destroyed and also the sanctuary (temple). So when Daniels 70th week is speaking about the prince to come putting and end to the sacrifice in the middle of the week it is talking about the 3rd temple.

If the futurist are right the 3rd temple and the return of the sacrifice are the key things to watch as it will be necessary for the abomination of desolation to occur in which is where and when the man of sin are revealed. This is why the current situation in Israel is so important to consider as Israel is all prepared with everything necessary to begin the temple sacrifices again. This to me is like Noah's day and the ark being nearly finished yet the people did not understand what was coming. There is no reason to hold to the historical idea as it is being nullified by current events which are screaming this is it.
 
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DavidPT

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Keep ignoring the New Covenant tabernacle, who is Jesus Christ, and the New Covenant feast, which was instituted at the Last Supper, and you will probably be able to make your doctrine work.

How does your argument possibly solve my argument? Seriously! My argument is, that in order to even fulfill Zechariah 14:16-19, it at least requires a period of time consisting of years and years, if according to the texts, that after those that came against Jerusalem, that there are then survivors remaining who then must go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles, or face consequences if they don't?

Aren't you arguing some of the very same things that I'm arguing, that some of these events in Zechariah 14 are meaning in the end of this age and involves the 2nd coming? That obviously means you then have to allow for a period of time following all of that, in order for Zechariah 14:16-19 to even come to pass. Why is that Amils, when they make arguments, and then when someone examines the arguments they are making, 9 times out of 10 it turns out that the arguments being made are not even making logical sense?
 
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BABerean2

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How does your argument possibly solve my argument? Seriously! My argument is, that in order to even fulfill Zechariah 14:16-19, it at least requires a period of time consisting of years and years, if according to the texts, that after those that came against Jerusalem, that there are then survivors remaining who then must go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles, or face consequences if they don't?

Aren't you arguing some of the very same things that I'm arguing, that some of these events in Zechariah 14 are meaning in the end of this age and involves the 2nd coming? That obviously means you then have to allow for a period of time following all of that, in order for Zechariah 14:16-19 to even come to pass. Why is that Amils, when they make arguments, and then when someone examines the arguments they are making, 9 times out of 10 it turns out that the arguments being made are not even making logical sense?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


If your argument centers around an OT text involving the "tabernacle", and the "feast of tabernacles", and you cannot identify who is the "tabernacle", and what is the "feast of tabernacles" revealed in the New Testament, why should we proceed with your arguments?


.
 
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