Eight steps to murder

Paidiske

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tall73

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A few stats to go along with the article, from 2017 FBI crime data in the USA.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 10

The full data breaks down the crimes by type that resulted in homicide (robbery, rape, etc.)

Homicide Victims:


Husband 110
Wife 549
Mother 169
Father 186
Son 253
Daughter 179
Brother 98
Sister 27
Other family 296
Acquaintance 2,999
Friend 431
Boyfriend 181
Girlfriend 488
Neighbor 114
Employee 17
Employer 6
Stranger 1,496
Unknown 7,557


@Paidiske
Any idea how much overlap there is with signs for women killing men in a relationship?
 
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Cimorene

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A very practical article, outlining the eight steps common in situations where men murder their partners, allowing people to recognise the warning signs:

https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle...might-save-women-s-lives-20190911-p52qfs.html

The key take home point: "women are not to blame for their murders. It’s men who want control."

I think being oppressively controlling, controlling just for the sake of having that control are the major warning flags. Not necessarily that he's going to murder but that it's a toxic relationship.
 
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Paidiske

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@Paidiske
Any idea how much overlap there is with signs for women killing men in a relationship?

Short answer is I don't know. I have some hunches, but I am not aware of similar research.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Any idea how much overlap there is with signs for women killing men in a relationship?

I'm glad you posted that. On many of these threads especially on abuse etc. they are written from a point of view that would be considered "Sexist" if the position was reversed (the idea that woman can be abusers etc. doesn't enter the minds of these folks).

Looking at abuse in Narcissistic heterosexual relationships roughly 3/4 are men abusing women, but there is that 1/4 of the time when it is the other way around! And well, I know a friend who is in the process of divorcing his abusive narcissistic wife and all I can say is practically all the sympathy etc. is geared for women and if you are a man in these situations it is good luck! It is double whammy where the culture does not expect that, maybe even mocks or laughs at you, and on top of that you are figuratively emasculated.
 
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Paidiske

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Abuse is terrible whether it is committed by men or women (and women definitely are a proportion of abusers).

However, even a quick glance at the stats that tall73 posted will show you that the problem is not an equal one. Women are being killed by their partners at a far higher rate. And we do know that the underlying causes tend to be different; so if we want to tackle the issues, we do need to deal with the abuse committed by men somewhat separately from that committed by women (also noting that in same-sex relationships the issues/dynamics are different, as well).
 
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Dave-W

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On many of these threads especially on abuse etc. they are written from a point of view that would be considered "Sexist" if the position was reversed (the idea that woman can be abusers etc. doesn't enter the minds of these folks).
There are some that believe giving any credence to men being abused or worse by women obscures the REAL issue of women being abused by men. (which definitely is the much bigger problem)
 
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Dave-W

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A few stats to go along with the article, from 2017 FBI crime data in the USA.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 10

The full data breaks down the crimes by type that resulted in homicide (robbery, rape, etc.)

Homicide Victims:


Husband 110
Wife 549
Mother 169
Father 186
Son 253
Daughter 179
Brother 98
Sister 27
Other family 296
Acquaintance 2,999
Friend 431
Boyfriend 181
Girlfriend 488
Neighbor 114
Employee 17
Employer 6
Stranger 1,496
Unknown 7,557
However, even a quick glance at the stats that tall73 posted will show you that the problem is not an equal one. Women are being killed by their partners at a far higher rate.
I took that data and sorted it by number so you could see the breakdown from most common to least.

Homicide Victims:

Unknown 7,557
Acquaintance 2,999
Stranger 1,496

Wife 549
Girlfriend 488
Friend 431
Other family 296
Son 253
Father 186
Boyfriend 181
Daughter 179
Mother 169
Neighbor 114
Husband 110
Brother 98
Sister 27
Employee 17
Employer 6


I found it interesting that "wife" was almost exactly 5 times as frequent as "husband," and "girlfriend" was 2.7 times as frequent as "boyfriend."
 
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bèlla

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Anger is my no-fly zone. I haven’t been a victim of domestic violence. But in every instance I’ve known of; anger and the absence of self-control (when upset) were always present. Sometimes the person was known to have a temper and others they weren’t. They only revealed that to their partner.

As a rule, a person will do (and say) things to a companion they would never utter to others (family, friend, co-workers). I am less inclined to believe glowing opinions if they juxtapose my experiences with that person.
 
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Dave-W

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A very practical article, outlining the eight steps common in situations where men murder their partners, allowing people to recognise the warning signs:
Interesting article.

I have known 2 serial killers back when I was in college, and one "mass murderer" who killed his wife and kids back in 2009.

Man Gets 3 Life Sentences in Triangle Murders - Potomac Local

In looking over that list, I do not believe most of those steps were visible at all; but he still killed his wife and 2 teen age children.
 
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archer75

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That we live in a world where people murder their partners (very often, their wives) even this often is crushing to me.

It seems that, despite all the problems and pain in marriages, murder should be something that is almost unheard of.

By way of armchair explanation that I feel obligated to make for my own "peace of mind," it seems to me that we (as a society, but also many Christians I've known, and I don't exclude myself) are grossly abusing the idea of marriage.

If it's a convenience and a holdover, a kind of legal arrangement that just makes inheritance easier, then I don't see why it's celebrated with such pomp, or can be.

If it's for the procreation of children, as is often said in certain contexts...well, then it's pointless, because children can and do appear without any marriage contract or legal arrangement or blessing at all.

If it's the "only way" to get "sexual activity" "blessed," then at least in my own communion, I'm not sure what's going on, because the marriage rite is so late, and for normal people, even later. Then we hear that the Church recognized civil marriages before that...so, why not now, if everything is so unchanging? Or, in our case, we recognize civil marriages that predate someone's conversion, but then discourage people already in the Church from marrying outside it, or even forbid them? Completely unclear to me.

It seems that there is a mix of things in play: a desire for intimacy and pair-bonding, a desire for sex that doesn't get you yelled at, and then various desires by forces outside the relationship to make sure that the energies of that relationship are appropriately channelled.

And then you have various holdover notions, no longer closely related to reality, such as that the man is responsible for grabbing gobs of money and hurling them into the woman's pockets so she can choose the right wallpaper for the upbringing of children.

Or that the woman is responsible for caring for (and qualified to care for) the emotionally eggshell-like man who is so destroyed by X Y and Z that he's all but crippled and needs to be carried by his wife.

Or the relatively new notion that your partner is supposed to be "everything" to you and that you should both be too embarrassed by your kitchen ever to have anyone over, so you just go into a cocoon and suffer together, taking everything out on each other. Any opposite-sex relationship outside the marriage is "cheating" or "dangerous" and any same-sex relationship is somehow suspicious because your partner is probably talking about you!

This isn't the best post.
 
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Paidiske

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I laughed at "the right wallpaper for the upbringing of children," though. ^_^

I think you're right, though, archer. Marriage has (dare I say it) evolved, and what we have now is the end result of a bunch of different influences and contingencies over a very, very long time; some of which sit uneasily together.

It takes a certain amount of work to be intentional about how we live within it, in our own context, in ways which are God-honouring and life-giving; work and intentionality which, frankly, I do not generally see in the couples who come to me for marriage.
 
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bekkilyn

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There are some that believe giving any credence to men being abused or worse by women obscures the REAL issue of women being abused by men. (which definitely is the much bigger problem)

From what little I understand, I think much of what causes this point of view is that oftentimes when women bring up the problem of men abusing women, it's only an extremely short period of time before someone comes in with, "Well what about the men? Men get abused too!" And the conversation is then derailed into discussion about men who are abused and/or arguing over the whole thing, and so the original point of women being abused yet again falls by the wayside.

Then add to it the male culture of pride that simply wouldn't allow for the idea of men being abused by women, and who would certainly not admit to it if it did, then we have a problem on top of a problem.

I suspect the dynamics of each type of abuse situation are a bit different simply because of the social conditioning influencing the behaviors of men and women in general.
 
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Dave-W

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I suspect the dynamics of each type of abuse situation are a bit different simply because of the social conditioning influencing the behaviors of men and women in general.
I agree.
Then add to it the male culture of pride that simply wouldn't allow for the idea of men being abused by women, and who would certainly not admit to it if it did, then we have a problem on top of a problem.
There was a guy who posted in the mens folders about the abuse he was experiencing at the hands of his wife. He posted a few times, usually like at 3 am his time and what he described was pretty bad. Then he stopped.

IF what he said was true, my heart goes out to him.
 
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I am single...not because I wanted to be, but because the cancer took no prisoners and took my husband. I'm warily dipping my toes in the dating pool again after over 20 years and man...the men I've met are a bunch of entitled, fragile, whiny, immature little boys (these are men over 50). They talk about "my woman must be willing to protect me". It's "my woman", "my house" "my bed" when talking about past relationships.

Umm...if you're grown, what do you need another mama for? I've actually walked out on a couple of guys because of this rubbish (I always drive my own vehicle). One date and I find out they're a bunch of little boys. What is WRONG with this picture?
 
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solid_core

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A few stats to go along with the article, from 2017 FBI crime data in the USA.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 10

The full data breaks down the crimes by type that resulted in homicide (robbery, rape, etc.)

Homicide Victims:


Husband 110
Wife 549
Mother 169
Father 186
Son 253
Daughter 179
Brother 98
Sister 27
Other family 296
Acquaintance 2,999
Friend 431
Boyfriend 181
Girlfriend 488
Neighbor 114
Employee 17
Employer 6
Stranger 1,496
Unknown 7,557


@Paidiske
Any idea how much overlap there is with signs for women killing men in a relationship?

But:

"Men are not to blame for their murders. It’s women who want control."
Paraphrase of Paidiske article conclusion.
 
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