Phil W

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2019
3,187
675
69
Mesa, Az
✟67,340.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I’m sorry for you folks that have to live in fear of losing salvation. There can’t be much joy not knowing if you are doing enough.
The joy is in the knowing we will never turn our backs on the One who suffered and died for us.
I wish all the religious folks could know that joy.
 
Upvote 0

Blood Bought 1953

Ned Flander’s Buddy
Oct 21, 2017
2,278
1,471
71
Portsmouth
✟81,329.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Nope. Saying it is proves nothing. See: Bare Assertion Fallacy.



Argumentum ad populum. Nice touch.



So? It's not in the original manuscripts. All the kings horses and all the kings men don't trump scripture.



The law of Moses is the Law of YHWH, is the law of Yahshua. Nothing trumps YHWH's law.

I might suggest Daniel for study.


Grace Trumps Law.......” Where sin abounds , Grace abounds that much more...”
 
Upvote 0

Phil W

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2019
3,187
675
69
Mesa, Az
✟67,340.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Grace Trumps Law.......” Where sin abounds , Grace abounds that much more...”
Paul writes..."What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom 6:1-2)
Thanks be to God, the chapter goes on to tell us how to "die to sin".
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,680
8,037
US
✟1,060,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Paul writes..."What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom 6:1-2)
Thanks be to God, the chapter goes on to tell us how to "die to sin".

...And then there is this advisory:

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

Phil W

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2019
3,187
675
69
Mesa, Az
✟67,340.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
...And then there is this advisory:

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?
Yep, truly worth noting.
 
Upvote 0

Blood Bought 1953

Ned Flander’s Buddy
Oct 21, 2017
2,278
1,471
71
Portsmouth
✟81,329.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Paul writes..."What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom 6:1-2)
Thanks be to God, the chapter goes on to tell us how to "die to sin".

Only a fool would take Grace and turn it into “ a license to sin”...... no one here and especially not ME is promoting that Stupidity...
But there are many Foolish Christians out there who are Carnal Enough and Stupid Enough to think that they can Sin and “ get away with it”
I agree with Charles Stanley on this one—- “ So you think as a totally forgiven Child Of God you can go out and just Sin up a Storm and get away with it? Try it ...I dare you!
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
837
260
46
Netanya
✟13,908.00
Country
Israel
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

Hallelu YAH!

Yes , Hallelujah. !!

We the born again, are the "righteousness of God = IN CHRIST".
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,613
Utah
✟713,373.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
It is written..."For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren," (Heb 2:11)

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
(Heb 10:10)

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (Heb 10:14)

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Heb 10:29)

Not one of those verses imposes a gradual sanctification, knowing that which sanctifies us is the blood of Christ, which has already been applied to the repentant at our "immersion" into Jesus' death.
The unsanctified are not yet atoned for, and Jesus has yet to call them "brethren".
They are the ones who "walk away".

so .... once sanctified ... always sanctified???? Nope

We are to remain in Him daily .... we are continuously being sanctified by the Holy Spirit

Sanctification begins with justification. But, while justification is God’s act of forgiving our sins and counting us righteous through faith in Jesus Christ, sanctification is the continual work of the Holy Spirit in the believer ... that is ... us being conformed to the image of Christ, who is God’s son. And, while justification is a one-time act of God, sanctification is a continual process until we are taken to be with the Lord.

Sanctification is the continuous work of the Holy Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,116
618
65
Michigan
✟318,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You should keep reading....

Yes, the blood of Jesus is a finished Atonement.
But, is everyone born again?
No.
Why is that?
Because the universal offer of the Blood Atonement, is not APPLIED to anyone who has not by Faith receives Christ.
"all that call on the name of the Lord shall me saved".....BUT NOT ALL WILL CALL.
Yet, that offer of Salvation, is always there, for everyone in the entire world of humanity.
But its not applied to everyone, as its only applied to those who have been born again.

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This is Jesus Himself which says this. These folks who gave Jesus the Credit for everything they did were not saved. Even though they called Him, the Christ, "Lord, Lord." So these men obviously "believed" they were saved. They obviously "believed" in the Name of the Lord Jesus.

But Jesus Himself said HE didn't even know them, because they worked "Lawlessness".

Is the man seeking first the Kingdom of Heaven supposed to also "believe" these Word's of the Holy Christ?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
The joy is in the knowing we will never turn our backs on the One who suffered and died for us.
I wish all the religious folks could know that joy.
And there is your problem, and why you couldn’t possibly be sinless. Your first thought wasn’t to glorify God. It wasn’t about what He did. It’s about what you will do.

This is how sneaky sin is. It’s not always about right or wrong. Sometimes it’s about good and better. And you failed.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,116
618
65
Michigan
✟318,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
We are an entirely new creation in Christ and a spiritual creation, not of this world. Seated with Christ in the heavenly realms. The old has passed and the new has arrived.

Old things have passed away, and all things have become new.
The old man is gone, the New Creation is our heavenly ID.

We are not "saved sinners", we are God's family.

I understand that pretty much every person on the planet, that calls Jesus Lord, is completely convinced that they are God's Children.

But if this is true, then why did the Holy Christ inspire so many warnings about being deceived? Just look at all of them.

Matt. 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Rom. 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

1 Cor. 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Gal. 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Eph. 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

I have only posted just a few of these warnings in the New Testament. There are many more, and the OT is also full of such examples of religious men deceiving the masses.

How does a man know if he is being deceived by religions who Come in Christ's Name?

Well John, inspired by the same Spirit of Christ who wrote all these warnings, tells us.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him,

OK, here it is. Here is how the common man, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, can know if we are truly "IN HIM".

"if we keep his commandments."

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

How did Jesus walk? Was He Lawless? Or Faithful to God?

He once told me "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God". Shall we not also consider His Many Word's of warning?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,116
618
65
Michigan
✟318,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That definition of righteous is from a human perspective. We have the righteousness of Christ as a gift.

Give me divine righteousness.

Romans 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Yes, it was Jesus walking "in accord with divine or moral law" that made Him Righteous. We are told to "walk even as He walked". As it is written.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,116
618
65
Michigan
✟318,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Amen. Therefore we are without excuse if we do not take this upon us. Who can say, "it was too hard".
For He gives more grace. And never forget, we have each other.
Galatians 6:2. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Yes, and how do we bear one another's burdens?

Do we tell lies to him? No, the Word of God which became Flesh said "Thou shall not bear false witness" Do we steal from him? No, the Word of God which became Flesh says "though shall not steal". Do we kill him? No, The Word of God which became Flesh says "thou shall not hate thy brother in thy heart". shall we covet what is his? No, the Word of God which became Flesh says "Thou shall not Covet".

Do we cheat him? No, the Word of God which became Flesh, the Rock, the Christ of the Bible says, "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure. Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt."

We have all we need to know how to bear one another's burdens, as Jesus loved us, and so fulfill the Law of Christ. There is no excuse.

Great post :)
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,116
618
65
Michigan
✟318,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
What else would they fear?
Let me give an example. I love my kids. I have three biological kids and two adopted. There has always been a fear of me, but not in a cowering, scared way. But they all understand that even though I love them and would die for them, I still have authority over them and dole out discipline for bad behavior.

But not a single one of them is ever afraid that I will disown them, not even the adopted two. I’m dad. Period.

So if I, bring a much imperfect dad can have this sort of love and influence on my children, how much more so does our Heavenly Father have? He has adopted us and given us to His Son to care for us.
 
Upvote 0

Studyman

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,116
618
65
Michigan
✟318,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Let me give an example. I love my kids. I have three biological kids and two adopted. There has always been a fear of me, but not in a cowering, scared way. But they all understand that even though I love them and would die for them, I still have authority over them and dole out discipline for bad behavior.

But not a single one of them is ever afraid that I will disown them, not even the adopted two. I’m dad. Period.

So if I, bring a much imperfect dad can have this sort of love and influence on my children, how much more so does our Heavenly Father have? He has adopted us and given us to His Son to care for us.

"But they all understand that even though I love them and would die for them, I still have authority over them and dole out discipline for bad behavior."

Yes, they are your children. Not because they say so, but because you say so. Jesus, on the other hand, has "many" who calls Him their Father, that HE Himself says HE doesn't even know.

So to your analogy, your kids can see you. They can touch you. But for the Children of Jesus, they need to have Hope and Faith. Because Jesus is not seen or touched.

Rom. 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

1 Thes. 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Therefore, HIS WORD that he left us, tells us to "fear" and "take Heed" that we are not tricked by the spirit of this world, into being one of the "Many" who call Him Lord, Lord, that He doesn't even know.. As it is written.

Rom. 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith (HOPE). Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Heb. 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

I don't feel sorry for men who are fearful, diligent, and cautious. These men are being faithful to the Lord's Christ by trusting what HE is telling them.

2 Pet. 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

I appreciate your analogy, but I was just surprised by your comment. It seemed like you were advising people not to follow the instructions of the Spirit of Christ.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,556.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
"But they all understand that even though I love them and would die for them, I still have authority over them and dole out discipline for bad behavior."

Yes, they are your children. Not because they say so, but because you say so. Jesus, on the other hand, has "many" who calls Him their Father, that HE Himself says HE doesn't even know.

So to your analogy, your kids can see you. They can touch you. But for the Children of Jesus, they need to have Hope and Faith. Because Jesus is not seen or touched.

Rom. 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

1 Thes. 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Therefore, HIS WORD that he left us, tells us to "fear" and "take Heed" that we are not tricked by the spirit of this world, into being one of the "Many" who call Him Lord, Lord, that He doesn't even know.. As it is written.

Rom. 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith (HOPE). Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Heb. 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

I don't feel sorry for men who are fearful, diligent, and cautious. These men are being faithful to the Lord's Christ by trusting what HE is telling them.

2 Pet. 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

I appreciate your analogy, but I was just surprised by your comment. It seemed like you were advising people not to follow the instructions of the Spirit of Christ.
How did you come to that conclusion?

“I still have authority over them and dole out discipline for bad behavior.”

Just because I will never abandon them for bad behavior doesn’t give them license for bad behavior. As Paul says


What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
— Romans 6:1-2
 
Upvote 0