The police are fed up.

Jonathan Walkerin · Jun 6, 2020

solid_core said:
Any average US job is paid better than its counterpart in an average EU or Asian country. Even when the cost of living is compared.

What they do not have is social security, paid vacations, socialized healthcare and similar.

Generalization at best. Want to compare wages in US and Switzerland?

Americans will have to use money for stuff people in Europe take for granted like paid maternity leave.

Being rich is is not about making lots of money. It is how much money you have left after you deal with your expenses.

10 K to give a birth for example.

How much it costs to have a baby in every state, whether you have health insurance or don't

solid_core said:
I am sure many black rioters in the US are richer than I am

Doubtful unless you are a very poor programmer.

Why would people with wealth riot, loot cheesecakes and then get their heads smashed in by the police ?

You seem to have bit of Hollywood image of USA.

solid_core · Jun 6, 2020

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Generalization at best. Want to compare wages in US and Switzerland?

Only if you want to compare the richest state of the US with Switzerland (which is not even the part of the EU)

Just think a little - the whole EU and the whole US have the more or less the same GDP. But there are 500 million Europeans while just 300 million Americans. So the Americans are in no way poorer.

People living in California should have no more problems to get a job and to live in peace than people in Poland, Czech republic, Austria and similar. No reason in money for the crime rate to be so much higher.

You live in Sweden. Sweden was one of the most safe countries in 90'. Now its the so called rape capital of Europe. Did Sweden got suddenly poor? We know the reason is somewhere else.

Jonathan Walkerin · Jun 6, 2020

solid_core said:
Just think a little - the whole EU and the whole US have the more or less the same GDP. But there are 500 million Europeans while just 300 million Americans. So the Americans are in no way poorer.

Without even checking that.....US has many more times the super rich and rich people Europe has so GDP just means that some people have obscene amounts of money and vastly larger group has very little.

How is this a difficult concept ?

solid_core · Jun 6, 2020

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Without even checking that.....US has many more times the super rich and rich people Europe has so GDP just means that some people have obscene amounts of money and vastly larger group has very little.

How is this a difficult concept ?

These money do not disappear in air, but are in the economy. For example in banks so that banks can give more loans to companies and people.

Or in buying luxury services, houses etc - which gives again employment to other people.

You should learn a little about how economy works.

The bigger problem than concentration of money in very rich people's hands is putting absurd amount of money into army, weapons and wars. These are truly money that simply flows out of the American economy. And Trump is right that EU should finally take more responsibility in NATO.

Jonathan Walkerin · Jun 6, 2020

solid_core said:
These money do not disappear in air, but are in the economy. For example in banks so that banks can give more loans to companies and people.

Ah yes the famous trickle down economics that Trump uses for his tax cuts for the wealthy.

News flash. It does not work. Maybe you should learn how the economy works.

Giving money to the less wealthy is much more likely to put that money in to circulation instead of being directed to Cayman Islands.

solid_core said:
The bigger problem than concentration of money in very rich people's hands is putting absurd amount of money into army, weapons and wars. These are truly money that simply flows out of the American economy.

Guess you have never heard of military industrial complex ?

Think stuff like manufacturing F35 among 46 states is just happenstance and no money is flowing in to US economy ?

https://www.f35.com/global/participation/united-states-who-we-are

Quartermaine · Jun 6, 2020

agapelove said:
No wonder they themselves are abusive? Let's blame the ineffective laws and programs?

Your arsenal of excuses for law enforcement is endless. Meanwhile you've been refusing to admit the systematic criminalization of black Americans, attempting to undermine their entire movement against police brutality because of their own crimes. Just pointing out the irony.

it's not race it's extreme poverty that is the problem.

Quartermaine · Jun 6, 2020

solid_core said:
Any average US job is paid better than its counterpart in an average EU or Asian country. Even when the cost of living is compared.

And realize that the lootings are in ones of the most richest cities, not in some poor towns in Alabama. They are in Washingon, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills etc.

Also realize that they loot electronics, TVs, gaming consoles, cigarettes and alcohol, cosmetics, luxury goods etc. Not food.

the poverty rate in Minneapolis is over 20%. For African American's in that city the poverty rate is more than double that. Far worse than Montgomery Alabama

archer75 · Jun 6, 2020

solid_core said:
USA have very high wages, compared to the rest of the world, but also very high crame rates compared to the rest of the world.

But also higher prices. We need wages high enough and a social suppoet system strong enough that people can exist without living in terror

A_Thinker · Jun 6, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
The way I see it the police are fed up with never seeing positive results from their work, and the abuse they suffer at the hands of the people they are sworn to protect. No wonder they themselves are often abusive. If anyone is to blame for the current crisis it is those who write the ineffective laws and programs that do little to reduce crime.

Crime is down. What are you talking about ???

OldWiseGuy · Jun 6, 2020

agapelove said:
No wonder they themselves are abusive? Let's blame the ineffective laws and programs?

Your arsenal of excuses for law enforcement is endless. Meanwhile you've been refusing to admit the systematic criminalization of black Americans, attempting to undermine their entire movement against police brutality because of their own crimes. Just pointing out the irony.

Then you missed my main point which is that the black community must reform itself from within. When this happens the police problem will diminish. The police aren't likely to change, so they must. The attitude that black problems "Ain't none of yo' d--n business!" isn't helpful, especially when they affect everyone.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 6, 2020

Occams Barber said:
I pulled this table out of a Victorian Government website. The figures are for 2019.

I was aware that the US had a high incarceration rate but didn't realise how high. At 655 people in prison for every 100,000 of population the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

View attachment 278397

Are Americans that much more criminal or is something else going on here?

OB

You gotta look at who is in prison and why.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 6, 2020

A_Thinker said:
Crime is down. What are you talking about ???

Crime rates spiked in the early nineties. They have since returned to pre-nineties levels, which is still too high.

A_Thinker · Jun 6, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Crime rates spiked in the early nineties. They have since returned to pre-nineties levels, which is still too high.

I guess that I should have left in this graph ...

OldWiseGuy · Jun 6, 2020

Tom 1 said:
The aggressive approach to dealing with civilians in the US seems guaranteed to make it a miserable business for everyone involved. If you push people, they push back. In the several countries I’ve lived in the police have obviously been trained how to evaluate, de-escalate tense situations, not make hasty judgements, exercise caution and restraint etc. Looking at the various vids that have been circulating over the past few years, the cops there seem to have more in common with mafia enforcers than people hired to ‘protect and serve’. Who is training them to behave like thugs? If you push people , they push back. That’s just a basic reality, but whoever devises police training over there doesn’t seem to get that. The one time I visited the US even the airport cops were pointlessly aggressive.

Perhaps it's because we have a more serious crime problem than other countries. We also are a very rebellious people.

Tone · Jun 6, 2020

solid_core said:
I am sure many black rioters in the US are richer than I am or than many people in Asia or Eastern Europe. What they do not have is functional comunity, discipline, inner peace and mental stability.

"It's understood that Hollywood sells Californication..."

OldWiseGuy · Jun 6, 2020

A_Thinker said:
I guess that I should have left in this graph ...

Doesn't the sharp decline beginning in the mid nineties result from a higher incarceration rate of drug offenders, especially young black men?

Tone · Jun 6, 2020

solid_core said:
There is still also a lot of tribal mentality in US minorities

Can you expound on this? Thanks.

A_Thinker · Jun 6, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Doesn't the sharp decline beginning in the mid nineties result from a higher incarceration rate of drug offenders, especially young black men?

I never heard anyone explain it that way. There would have to be incarceration of quite a number of persons, to make that kind of difference in the trend-line.

While we're speculating, I think that it might have to do with the advent of cell-phones, ... which essentially makes idle hands ... less idle.

I've often thought that that may be the reason why the government gives out free phones ...

OldWiseGuy · Jun 6, 2020

solid_core said:
These money do not disappear in air, but are in the economy. For example in banks so that banks can give more loans to companies and people.

Or in buying luxury services, houses etc - which gives again employment to other people.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 6, 2020

A_Thinker said:
I never heard anyone explain it that way. There would have to be incarceration of quite a number of persons, to make that kind of difference in the trend-line.

While we're speculating, I think that it might have to do with the advent of cell-phones, ... which essentially makes idle hands ... less idle.

I've often thought that that may be the reason why the government gives out free phones ...

There is a large number of black men (and women) in prison due to violation of drug laws. While in prison they aren't killing anyone (not very many anyway). This would be reflected in the violent crime rates.

The police are fed up.

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