klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
A Good and Faithful Servant. Luke 12:
42
And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has.
45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk,
46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few.
For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

2 Peter 3:18.
Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
Matthew 11:30
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mr. M
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,687
8,039
US
✟1,060,823.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
— Romans 4:3

Yes indeed.

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Studyman
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Yes indeed.

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.
 
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,129
3,211
Prescott, Az
✟37,027.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Matthew 11:30
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.
Amen. Therefore we are without excuse if we do not take this upon us. Who can say, "it was too hard".
For He gives more grace. And never forget, we have each other.
Galatians 6:2. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Amen. Therefore we are without excuse if we do not take this upon us. Who can say, "it was too hard".
For He gives more grace. And never forget, we have each other.
Galatians 6:2. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Excellent post my friend.
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I had just pointed this out.
Yes, hark. But James is actually talking about the perfection of faith in the end.

Seek out the old widows after the service ends, to make sure there needs are met. Have a chat, listen to their complaints about how they struggle with health problems. Make them laugh and enjoy their company.

That is perfect faith in action, perfect religion.

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

The burden is light and the yoke is easy.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,687
8,039
US
✟1,060,823.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Yes, hark. But James is actually talking about the perfection of faith in the end.

That's not what the scripture says.

That is perfect faith in action, perfect religion.

The word religion is mentioned nowhere in scripture.

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Oh! I see... Your translation decided to just add to scripture. I don't believe that we are supposed to add or subtract from scripture.

The burden is light and the yoke is easy.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

Hallelu YAH!
 
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
That's not what the scripture says.]
Yes it is.
The word religion is mentioned nowhere in scripture.
Nearly every translation uses the word 'religion' in James 1:27
Oh! I see... Your translation decided to just add to scripture. I don't believe that we are supposed to add or subtract from scripture.
Even the KJV uses the word 'religion'.

James 1:27 (KJV)
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I use the NASB but even the KJV uses 'religion', which means every other translation will.
(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy, Hallelu YAH!
If you quote from 1 John, then also quote the precepts from 1 John. Watch how I quote in context.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

1 John 4:21
And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

The law of liberty trumps the law of Moses, any day of the week!
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
I’m sorry for you folks that have to live in fear of losing salvation. There can’t be much joy not knowing if you are doing enough.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,687
8,039
US
✟1,060,823.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Yes it is.

Nope. Saying it is proves nothing. See: Bare Assertion Fallacy.

Nearly every translation uses the word 'religion' in James 1:27

Argumentum ad populum. Nice touch.

Even the KJV uses the word 'religion'.

James 1:27 (KJV)
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I use the NASB but even the KJV uses 'religion', which means every other translation will.

So? It's not in the original manuscripts. All the kings horses and all the kings men don't trump scripture.

If you quote from 1 John, then also quote the precepts from 1 John. Watch how I quote in context.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

1 John 4:21
And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

The law of liberty trumps the law of Moses, any day of the week!

The law of Moses is the Law of YHWH, is the law of Yahshua. Nothing trumps YHWH's law.

I might suggest Daniel for study.
 
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,129
3,211
Prescott, Az
✟37,027.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I’m sorry for you folks that have to live in fear of losing salvation. There can’t be much joy not knowing if you are doing enough.

Amen. The only fear that can drive a saint is the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1.
Not about 'earning' salvation, but receiving a 'full reward':

2 John 1:8. Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for,
but that we may receive a full reward.

Matthew 6:
1
Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men.
Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret
will Himself reward you openly.
5
And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men.
Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
6
But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
Lagniappe:
1 John 4:18. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment.
But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,687
8,039
US
✟1,060,823.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
I’m sorry for you folks that have to live in fear of losing salvation. There can’t be much joy not knowing if you are doing enough.


(CLV) 1Jn 4:18
Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love.

When I was a little boy, my dad was outside raking leaves while my sister and I were playing. One of my sister's friends showed up, just as my dad asked us if we would like to help him rake leaves. My sister immediately asked "do we have to?" My dad said, "no, it's just that I'm out here doing this by myself; and I would like help." My sister said, "well then I'm going of to go play with my friends." I immediately said, "Ill help you dad." My sister was still standing there when my dad said, "thank you; here's a quarter." (That was quite a bit of money back then; and we didn't have much.) My sister's eyes lit up. She was driven by money. She said, " I didn't know that there was money involved; I'll help!" He handed her a rake. She asked, "aren't you going to give me a quarter?" My dad said, "No, I didn't give your brother a quarter for raking leaves. I gave him a quarter because he loves me; and he wants to help me."

My dad was an Atheist; and he wasn't even my blood father. He was my stepdad; but he still understood how a father wants to be loved. This is how I love people who I see stranded on the side of the road. I don't help them for a reward. I help them because my heart tells me to.

I'm obedient to YHWH's perfect law, not for what I think I might get out of him. That seems like a burden to me. It also seems insincere. I'm obedient out of love for him. It's easy.

Let his will be done regarding any reward he might have for me. His will is out of my control; and his will, will be done. Worrying about it will change nothing. If I lay down my life in love for him, with no care of what he will give me in return; then there is nothing to fear. He has already given me everything I have. Anything more is already more than I deserve.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Mr. M
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Nope. Saying it is proves nothing. See: Bare Assertion Fallacy.
Argumentum ad populum. Nice touch.So? It's not in the original manuscripts. All the kings horses and all the kings men don't trump scripture.
Oh yes it is Hark.

Maclaren's Exposition

James 1:27
And so if you take the true meaning, not only of the original Greek, but also of the word ‘religion’ at the beginning of the seventeenth century, then you will understand the passage a little better than some of the people that are so often quoting it do. For the writer is not talking about religion, but about its expression, ‘worship.’ And he says that ‘ true worship', pure and undefiled... is to visit the widows and the fatherless in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.’

Which is even better and thanks for that Hark.
The law of Moses is the Law of YHWH, is the law of Yahshua. Nothing trumps YHWH's law.
Still using a name that is not found in ancient semitic literature, 'Yahshua'? The name is Yehshua.

The law of Moses is the written law and was intended for the unrighteous. The law of Christ is the royal law and is intended for the redeemed, the chosen, the elect in Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
(CLV) 1Jn 4:18
Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love.

When I was a little boy, my dad was outside raking leaves while my sister and I were playing. One of my sister's friends showed up, just as my dad asked us if we would like to help him rake leaves. My sister immediately asked "do we have to?" My dad said, "no, it's just that I'm out here doing this by myself; and I would like help." My sister said, "well then I'm going of to go play with my friends." I immediately said, "Ill help you dad." My sister was still standing there when my dad said, "thank you; here's a quarter." (That was quite a bit of money back then; and we didn't have much.) My sister's eyes lit up. She was driven by money. She said, " I didn't know that there was money involved; I'll help!" He handed her a rake. She asked, "aren't you going to give me a quarter?" My dad said, "No, I didn't give your brother a quarter for raking leaves. I gave him a quarter because he loves me; and he wants to help me."

My dad was an Atheist; and he wasn't even my blood father. He was my stepdad; but he still understood how a father wants to be loved. This is how I love people who I see stranded on the side of the road. I don't help them for a reward. I help them because my heart tells me to.

I'm obedient to YHWH's perfect law, not for what I think I might get out of him. That seems like a burden to me. It also seems insincere. I'm obedient out of love for him. It's easy.

Let his will be done regarding any reward he might have for me. His will is out of my control; and his will, will be done. Worrying about it will change nothing. If I lay down my life in love for him, with no care of what he will give me in return; then there is nothing to fear. He has already given me everything I have. Anything more is already more than I deserve.
How can you be certain you are doing enough? You post here telling folks that they are doing enough. How do you know you aren’t missing something?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
54,687
8,039
US
✟1,060,823.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
How can you be certain you are doing enough?

I know I'm not doing enough. It would never be enough. All that I can do is what I can do.

I don't claim to be certain of anything.

You post here telling folks that they are doing enough.

Come now! If you have me quoted as saying, "You are (or aren't) doing enough" to anyone, buried in your secret dossier on me somewhere; you're welcomed to post it here. I deny the accusation. Perhaps my posts stir something in your heart. if so, I won't take the credit.

:: Points to sky ::

How do you know you aren’t missing something?

I probably am. I seek out his truth with a passion; so that I may serve him better. I find new shortcomings on a regular basis. Reaching maturity is a process.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,129
3,211
Prescott, Az
✟37,027.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
How can you be certain you are doing enough?
Your conscience must convict you, to do or not to do, that is the question...
The Holy Spirit provides the answer.

Romans 9:1. I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit.
1 Timothy 1:5. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
2 Corinthians 4:2. But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

1 John 3:
18
My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
19 And by this we know that we are of the Truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.
20
For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.
22
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Your conscience must convict you, to do or not to do, that is the question...
The Holy Spirit provides the answer.

Romans 9:1. I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit.
1 Timothy 1:5. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
2 Corinthians 4:2. But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

1 John 3:
18
My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
19 And by this we know that we are of the Truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.
20
For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.
22
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
My conscience tells me to believe God’s word and trust in Christ’s finished work.
 
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,129
3,211
Prescott, Az
✟37,027.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
My conscience tells me to believe God’s word and trust in Christ’s finished work.
Amen. That is a general statement of faith.
Our life situations are more specific, for example:

Galatians 6:1.
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
The sure first action of course is to pray for them.
1 John 5:16. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Only the Holy Spirit can then direct our conscience to actions,
in accordance with the Lord's instructions:

Matthew 18:
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church,
let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HARK!
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Phil W

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2019
3,187
675
69
Mesa, Az
✟67,340.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Sanctification is an on-going process ... throughout our lifetime.

Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
At any time one can choose to walk away from the Lord ... and some do.
It is written..."For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren," (Heb 2:11)

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
(Heb 10:10)

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (Heb 10:14)

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Heb 10:29)

Not one of those verses imposes a gradual sanctification, knowing that which sanctifies us is the blood of Christ, which has already been applied to the repentant at our "immersion" into Jesus' death.
The unsanctified are not yet atoned for, and Jesus has yet to call them "brethren".
They are the ones who "walk away".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0