Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Studyman said:

The "shepherds" that God had given the exclusive duty to administer God's Laws. They had corrupted them and were "teaching for the doctrines the commandments of men."

The Mainstream preachers of that time, (circumcision) and for centuries, had created their own religion, and by it, had led people astray. Where else could people go? They didn't have the Holy Scriptures in their house, they were required, by law, to learn about God from these shepherds.

It was the "Commandments of Men" that caused the partition. It was their ordinances that Jesus exposed and abolished in His Flesh. Not His Father's Words.

Great post Yeshua HaDerekh

Click to expand...

Bob S said:

Then who was it that wrote 2Cor 3: 6-11? Sorry brother but you have your head in the sand. Bone up.

6 who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. KJV
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant – not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 in comparison with the surpassing glory.
11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! NIVUK

Click to expand...

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Todah rabah Studyman!

Yeshua said to them:
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Ye blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

Click to expand...

Andre_b said:

Let's look at it in proper details.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 ...'Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.'

The first point to make here is this. By what did Moses 'minister' to the Israelites? It was the 'letter' of the law right? The Israelites were governed by the letter of the law. And what did the letter of the law do?

Exodus 31:14 ...'Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.'

Can you see here how the 'letter' of the law killeth? This is how the Israelites were governed in the Old Testament. We are told by John that 'sin is the transgression of the law' (1 John 3:4), and Ezekiel 18:20 says that the 'soul that sinneth, it shall die.' So what does the letter of the law do when we look at it? It shows that we are worthy of death, because we have all transgressed the law of God. Paul said himself in Romans 7:9-11 that when the commandment came, he 'died' and it 'slew him.' This is what that 'mirror', that 'schoolmaster' is supposed to do - to show us our sin and defects of character. But that is as far as the written

law in of itself can go. So if there was nothing else, only the written 'letter' of the law, what would it do to us? It would slay us! This is because the law is 'holy and good' (Romans 7:12), and we are not. But there is no provision within the written ten commandments itself to save us. It merely shows us what is right and what is sin.

Now please note the context of what Paul says in verses 3-6 above. He is talking of how the apostles are ministers of the new testament. So the context is about 'ministration.' This will help with the following verses of 2 Corinthians 3.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 ...'But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.'

It is amazing how many people look at those words ... 'written and engraven in stones' ... and 'done away' and apply this to meaning that the ten commandments are now 'done away with', without even looking at all the other words in these verses. Do you see why I mentioned to look at the context of what Paul was saying in verses 3 to 6? That he was talking about 'ministration'? And now look at verses 7 to 11 above. What is the context? 'MINISTRATION.' Look at what Paul is saying. He is NOT saying that the ten commandments were 'done away.' He is saying that the ministration of the ten commandments was done away. And what ministration was that? The ministration of Moses.

What was the 'glory' which was 'to be done away' according to the above verses? The glory of Moses' counternance, not the ten commandments. Moses had just been in the presence of God on the mount, and his counternance shone with the glory of God's righteousness, to which the written law is a transcript of. But instead of seeing the righteousness of God through the law and the work that Christ was to do for them, the Israelites simply looked to Moses and the written law. They couldn't see past Moses to Christ and what Christ was to do for them. They could not bear even the sight of Christ's glory through Moses' face, and this is why Moses had to put a veil over his face.

2 Corinthians 3:12-16 ...'Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.'

First of all, where was the veil placed? Was it placed over the tablets of stone with the ten commandments? No, it was placed over the face of Moses. And what did that veil cover? It covered the 'dimmed' glory of Christ's righteousness that shone through Moses' face. This is what the Israelites could not see and this is what was to be 'abolished' - the 'glory' of the ministration of Moses (man) on behalf of Jesus Christ and which pointed to the ministration of Christ Himself in the new testament covenant.

Paul is not saying the ten commandments were abolished in the new testament covenant. Because Paul even said himself in Romans 3:31 ...'Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.' How can you 'establish' something that is 'abolished'? No, Paul is clearly saying in 2 Corinthians 3 that it was the ministration of the law which was to be abolished - the ministration of MAN. This was replaced by the ministration of the Spirit - of Jesus Christ Himself.

Think about it! What could Moses and the priestly service of the Levites do for man? Could they write the law upon the hearts of men? No, they could do no more than what the written law itself can do for us? Show us our sin and point us to Christ. But what can Christ Himself, through the ministration of the Spirit do for us? Write the law upon our hearts and GIVE US LIFE! This is why the 'ministration' of man through the written letter had to be 'abolished' and replaced with the ministration of the Spirit. But what remains constant through all of this? THE LAW OF GOD.

Don't just skim the verse and highlight the area trying to make it say something it is NOT. You simply highlight the word glory at one place and engraved in stones and simply IGNORE the rest of the text. This is how Eve was deceived in the garden.

Click to expand...

JLB777 said:

Yes shabath is rest.


That is the word found in Genesis.


It says God will rest on the seventh day.


JLB

Click to expand...

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

And yet ANY gentile could join themselves to Israel...a ger toshav...there was even a court of the gentiles at The temple...could this be the wall of separation...now through Yeshua, both Jew and gentile can come in! My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations. The gentile can now be grafted in! Also, in Pauls time, Rabbis (pharisees) were called "bonei hacheitz" (fence or wall builders) because they built fences (rabbinic ordinances) around the commandments

Click to expand...

fwGod said:

And on the seventh day God rested from all His works'."

Click to expand...

HARK! said:

...and it was the law that YHWH gave to Moses, the law that Yahshua preached us to follow him in, that separated Israel from Judaism and Paganism.

Click to expand...

JLB777 said:

If they become circumcised.

And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. Exodus 12:48

Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall remove leaven from your houses. For whoever eats leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. Exodus 12:15

Do you believe if a Christian eats Bread with yeast during the Passover Week, they will go to hell?
JLB

Click to expand...

JLB777 said:

Do you understand that Jesus is YHWH, the Lord?
JLB

Click to expand...

Andre_b said:

Let's look at it in proper details.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 ...'Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.'

The first point to make here is this. By what did Moses 'minister' to the Israelites? It was the 'letter' of the law right? The Israelites were governed by the letter of the law. And what did the letter of the law do?

Exodus 31:14 ...'Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.'

Can you see here how the 'letter' of the law killeth? This is how the Israelites were governed in the Old Testament. We are told by John that 'sin is the transgression of the law' (1 John 3:4), and Ezekiel 18:20 says that the 'soul that sinneth, it shall die.' So what does the letter of the law do when we look at it? It shows that we are worthy of death, because we have all transgressed the law of God. Paul said himself in Romans 7:9-11 that when the commandment came, he 'died' and it 'slew him.' This is what that 'mirror', that 'schoolmaster' is supposed to do - to show us our sin and defects of character. But that is as far as the written

law in of itself can go. So if there was nothing else, only the written 'letter' of the law, what would it do to us? It would slay us! This is because the law is 'holy and good' (Romans 7:12), and we are not. But there is no provision within the written ten commandments itself to save us. It merely shows us what is right and what is sin.

Now please note the context of what Paul says in verses 3-6 above. He is talking of how the apostles are ministers of the new testament. So the context is about 'ministration.' This will help with the following verses of 2 Corinthians 3.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 ...'But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.'

It is amazing how many people look at those words ... 'written and engraven in stones' ... and 'done away' and apply this to meaning that the ten commandments are now 'done away with', without even looking at all the other words in these verses. Do you see why I mentioned to look at the context of what Paul was saying in verses 3 to 6? That he was talking about 'ministration'? And now look at verses 7 to 11 above. What is the context? 'MINISTRATION.' Look at what Paul is saying. He is NOT saying that the ten commandments were 'done away.' He is saying that the ministration of the ten commandments was done away. And what ministration was that? The ministration of Moses.

What was the 'glory' which was 'to be done away' according to the above verses? The glory of Moses' counternance, not the ten commandments. Moses had just been in the presence of God on the mount, and his counternance shone with the glory of God's righteousness, to which the written law is a transcript of. But instead of seeing the righteousness of God through the law and the work that Christ was to do for them, the Israelites simply looked to Moses and the written law. They couldn't see past Moses to Christ and what Christ was to do for them. They could not bear even the sight of Christ's glory through Moses' face, and this is why Moses had to put a veil over his face.

2 Corinthians 3:12-16 ...'Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.'

First of all, where was the veil placed? Was it placed over the tablets of stone with the ten commandments? No, it was placed over the face of Moses. And what did that veil cover? It covered the 'dimmed' glory of Christ's righteousness that shone through Moses' face. This is what the Israelites could not see and this is what was to be 'abolished' - the 'glory' of the ministration of Moses (man) on behalf of Jesus Christ and which pointed to the ministration of Christ Himself in the new testament covenant.

Paul is not saying the ten commandments were abolished in the new testament covenant. Because Paul even said himself in Romans 3:31 ...'Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.' How can you 'establish' something that is 'abolished'? No, Paul is clearly saying in 2 Corinthians 3 that it was the ministration of the law which was to be abolished - the ministration of MAN. This was replaced by the ministration of the Spirit - of Jesus Christ Himself.

Think about it! What could Moses and the priestly service of the Levites do for man? Could they write the law upon the hearts of men? No, they could do no more than what the written law itself can do for us? Show us our sin and point us to Christ. But what can Christ Himself, through the ministration of the Spirit do for us? Write the law upon our hearts and GIVE US LIFE! This is why the 'ministration' of man through the written letter had to be 'abolished' and replaced with the ministration of the Spirit. But what remains constant through all of this? THE LAW OF GOD.

Don't just skim the verse and highlight the area trying to make it say something it is NOT. You simply highlight the word glory at one place and engraved in stones and simply IGNORE the rest of the text. This is how Eve was deceived in the garden.

Click to expand...

LoveGodsWord said:

Yep great post Andre_b! I would rate it as a winner but cannot rate anyones posts here. I have shared similar to @Bob S in the past. The above goes also well with the scriptures found in MATTHEW 9:12-13 which JESUS is saying the same things in relation to the purpose of the letter of the law as does MATTHEW 5 and Paul in GALATIANS 3:22-25 which is why we all need to be born again to love. This leads us to the new covenant's promise of HEBREWS 8:10-12 of a new heart to love and love is the fulfilling (establishing) of God's law through love *ROMANS 13:8-10. Faith does not do away with Gods' law (10 commandments), it establishes them in the life of those who believe and follow God's Word *ROMANS 3:31 and this includes Gods' 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments and our duty of love to God *JAMES 2:10-11.

God bless.

Click to expand...

Studyman said:

Just because religious men don't care enough about the God of the Bible to work to understand His Parables, doesn't mean HIS Word's don't have significant meanings.

I am always amazed at how easy it is for "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, to Mock HIS Father's Words. Truly there is no fear of God before them.

Circumcision is just as relevant as eating the Flesh of Jesus and Drinking His Blood. Unless you partake of both, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

The Hypocrites are Fine with Jesus and His Parables regarding eating His Flesh in order to enter heaven, but when it comes to the Father's Parables, they hold the "literal" line, and use it to discredit God Himself. Truly there is a spirit that mocks God, but it isn't the Spirit of Christ.

Duet. 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Heb. 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God (Not Mock Him) acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

You obviously believe religious men, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, can mock and ridicule HIS Father Word's without consequence? And what "voice" convinced you of this? Certainly not the Holy Spirit.

Click to expand...

Bob S said:

Hi Andre, question, did you compose your entire post or did you copy and paste it from some other source?

Either way it is "twisting" the words of the Holy writ. What verses 7-11 are telling us is that the ten commandments were glorious, not Moses head, and what is more glorious is the ministry of the Holy Spirit. What was glorious has faded away, done away. The ten commandments were temporary and replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which happened at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit gives us life, the ten commandments couldn't do this. All it was able to do is point out a few of the many sins that man could commit against God and man.

Click to expand...

Bob S said:

What verses 7-11 are telling us is that the ten commandments were glorious, not Moses head, and what is more glorious is the ministry of the Holy Spirit. What was glorious has faded away, done away.

Click to expand...

Studyman said:

God's Laws, Commandments and statutes are forever. The Priesthood given to Moses, that changed, was always transitory. It was "ADDED" to God's Laws because of transgression of them, "till the Seed should come".

Heb. 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


By the letter of the Law, the "soul that sins shall die". The Law, which was supposed to bring life, brought only death. In the First Covenant God made with Israel, He instituted a Priesthood which provided for the atonement of these Transgressions of God's Law. Paul said it was "ADDED" Till the Seed should come. "Transitory". It was a Priesthood which provided a "Shadow" of what the Promised Messiah would do for them. (Write His Laws on their hearts of His people, Atone for their Sins Himself.

You are trying to pit Jesus against His Father by preaching that somehow Jesus didn't agree with His Fathers instructions, and set about to change them. What you fail to accept is this Jesus WAS the Word of God who instituted the Laws in the first place. He didn't bring different Laws, just a different way of administering them, and a different way to atone for His Peoples transgressions of them.

Heb. 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, (Moses) much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: (Jesus)

The Christ is clear on this point from the very beginning.

Ex. 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

But the people sinned against God.

Ex. 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

But God gave Him a new set of Commandments.

Ex. 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

This is what Jesus taught.

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

And again;

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, (Like Zacharias and Simeon) ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

You are completely distorting Paul's words here to say something he is not, nor has ever said. That Jesus brought an end to His Father's teaching. He IS His Fathers teaching.

Click to expand...

Andre_b said:

Let's slow down a bit and do a few verses at a time instead of you constantly responding with a bunch of other verse that you don't understand in its context.

You just said here the following:



Are you saying it's the Ten Commandments that shone with glory? And not Moses face?

Click to expand...

Bob S said:

Israel brought an end to the teachings of the old covenant by not obeying them. Thus there was a need for a new and better covenant. Jesus is now high Priest and when there is a change in the priesthood.... well read it for yourself:
Hebrews 7:11
So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron?
Hebrews 7:12
And if the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it.
Hebrews 7:18
Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless.
Hebrews 7:24
But because Jesus lives forever, his priesthood lasts forever.

Your statement that the law is forever and will not change is refuted in those verses. I would be very slow to judge what others write until you know all the facts.

Click to expand...