Racism and other forms of hatred. Silence is not an option.

Jesus4Madrid said:

Here’s a great organisation that is actually making a difference in the black community:Our Mission | National Fatherhood Initiative

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Are you part of it?

Also this police impunity problem goes far beyond excess killings.

lovelife34 said:

OK, my bad because your profile pic looked like another guy's I was talking to.

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That's cool. Just be mindful that this thread is in the Eastern congregational sub forum. Non Orthodox are welcome to post in fellowship and some of your posts have not really been in keeping with that restriction.

prodromos said:

That's cool. Just be mindful that this thread is in the Eastern congregational sub forum. Non Orthodox are welcome to post in fellowship and some of your posts have not really been in keeping with that restriction.

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Can you explain what you mean by 'post in fellowship?'

lovelife34 said:

Can you explain what you mean by 'post in fellowship?'

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Being friendly, not rude and argumentative.

lovelife34 said:

You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine. If you don't believe there is a widespread issue, that's your prerogative.
What single digits? LOL. The last time I checked, it wasn't up to you to tell me what my priorities should be. Furthermore, what do you suggest I do? Go up to random people who I assume are going to have children out of wedlock and tell them not to? LOL. If I could get black fathers to stick around..... um it's actually impossible. I unfortunately don't have that power. I could maybe try that if systemic racism ended, and things like the school-to-prison pipeline were taken care of. And things like racial disparities in prison sentencing were taken care of. But yes, I agree, my job is to get black fathers to stick around....not.

Key Findings:

• Police killed at least 104 unarmed black people in 2015, nearly twice each week. (See which police departments were responsible for these deaths)
• Nearly 1 in 3 black people killed by police in 2015 were identified as unarmed, though the actual number is likely higher due to underreporting
• 36% of unarmed people killed by police were black in 2015 despite black people being only 13% of the U.S. population
• Unarmed black people were killed at 5x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015
• Only 13 of the 104 cases in 2015 where an unarmed black person was killed by police resulted in officer(s) being charged with a crime. 4 of these cases have ended in a mistrial or charges against the officer(s) being dropped and 4 cases are still awaiting trial or have a trial underway. Only 4 cases (Matthew Ajibade, Eric Harris, Paterson Brown Jr., and William Chapman) have resulted in convictions of officers involved, with a fifth case (Walter Scott) resulting in the officer pleading guilty.
• Of the 4 cases where the officer(s) involved have been convicted and sentenced, none were sentenced to serve more than 4 years in prison. Only 1 of 2 officers convicted for their involvement in Matthew Ajibade's death received jail time. He was sentenced to 1 year in jail and allowed to serve this time exclusively on weekends. The officer who killed Paterson Brown was sentenced to only 3 months in jail. Deputy Bates, who killed Eric Harris, was sentenced to 4 years in prison and Officer Cobb, who killed William Chapman, was sentenced to 2.5 years in prison. Officer Slager, who killed Walter Scott and pled guilty, has yet to be sentenced.

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Cutting and pasting misleading statistics is not an argument.

Blacks are 4x more likely than whites to commit murder but only 3x more likely to be shot by police.

Control all your statistics for the racial makeup of violent crime and then we can talk. Please don’t just repeat bad arguments.

prodromos said:

Being friendly, not rude and argumentative.

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Oh, um I understand, but I'm not trying to be rude or argumentative. I felt like rus and Jesus4Madrid were talking to me in the same way I was talking to them...do you agree?

Jesus4Madrid said:

Cutting and pasting misleading statistics is not an argument.

Blacks are 4x more likely than whites to commit murder but only 3x more likely to be shot by police.

Control all your statistics for the racial makeup of violent crime and then we can talk. Please don’t just repeat bad arguments.

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How are they misleading? But did I say whites commit more murder than blacks? Not once. What do you want to talk about, exactly?

lovelife34 said:

Chill out, lol. Quote me where I said you don't understand police brutality. I'll wait.
LOL, I don't need you to listen. There are a bunch of people on this forum who haven't been arrested on false charges and you're still talking with them, so your point is moot. I've been racially profiled, I don't need to be arrested to be able to talk to you.

LOL. I never have and never will push racial division. You're reaching.

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Hi again!
Prodromos is right. We DO have a special sub-forum (St Justin's) for legal disagreement with us, and any Orthodox member who posts there understands that he needs to be prepared to deal with disagreement. In the main forum, we prefer a more relaxed approach, one where people DON'T challenge our ideas, but are free to ask, "Why do you believe (teaching X)? It seems strange..." or to laugh or joke with us. We have "honorary members" (non-Orthodox) who understand this well and are always welcome. This thread really ought to be in St Justin's. The fact that it's here means you are more likely to get responses that are less welcoming, because it does violate our rules. Unfortunately, I can't move the thread. It takes a mod...

I do NOT think that you intend to promote racial division. I say that if you say OR IMPLY that the problem is white people for being white, that racism is an actual system, an organized and planned thing, that black,people are primarily victims and are usually profiled because of their skin color and that white people in general (rather than specific people of any color) are guilty, then, intended or not, in effect, you are attacking white people for something they can’t help, to,wit, their skin color. That’s guaranteed to make them defensive. If you try to lift up one race above another race, and say or imply that evil is primarily on the side of that other race, then you are putting down the other race. It winds up being a blanket accusation of all, even if you didn't intend that.

My words were a response to yours; you asked me to quote you:

The FACT is, there is a widespread problem in America with regards to police brutality. You can talk about what is 'true' all you want. If YOU would be okay with your father/brother being knelt on for 9 minutes by a police officer, then just say that, and move on. Or just say the truth, that you don't really care about all this stuff because it 'doesn't affect you.'

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So yes, you were implying that I don't understand police brutality. That's why I said what I said. Maybe we'll even reach a little bit of mutual understanding some day...

AMM said:

You were the first one to bring up the protests, the SJWs, abortion, and people feeling "holier than thou". All I did was share this video; you made it about these other things, when I shared it to discuss the video and to discuss the atrocities of racism.

I didn't realize that I needed to tell the world what I was doing to examine my own conscience in this matter, and that I needed to give signs of personal self-examination.

I don't think I'm not guilty, regardless of how "woke" I may or may not be. (And I'd like to point out, you're the one that brought up that worldview and terminology, not me.)

Yeah, these topics are related, but everything is related. Everything is related to Christ. Abortion and racism and fornication and hatred and theft are all related, because they all divide us from our neighbor and from Christ.

Please explain how abortion is "fatal" to the arguments that black lives matter.

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Because black babies are the largest demographic killed by abortion, and they are killed LEGALLY, and anyone who claims that “black lives matter” ought to be protesting that much more strongly than they protest what corrupt cops did ILLEGALLY to one adult man, especially the organization that prides itself on the name “Black Lives Matter”. But they don’t, and BLM doesn’t. Maintaining abortion is a large part of the true aims of most of them. It winds up being hypocrisy that tens and hundreds of thousands of black babies have paid the ultimate price for.

lovelife34 said:

Can you explain what you mean by 'post in fellowship?'

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Generally it means not disputing Orthodox doctrine. Which you aren't doing.

lovelife34 said:

How are they misleading? But did I say whites commit more murder than blacks? Not once. What do you want to talk about, exactly?

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Your statistics aren't misleading, the pro-police interpretation of them is.