eschatology

lambofgod43985889 · Jun 1, 2020

i believe in the rapture of the church before the suffering

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) · Jun 1, 2020

I don't believe in a rapture at all.

Jonaitis · Jun 1, 2020

lambofgod43985889 said:
i believe in the rapture of the church before the suffering

I see the second-coming and the rapture as a single event, and that we are going through the great tribulation since the ascension of Christ. We've been persecuted and martyred since then.

charsan · Jun 1, 2020

lambofgod43985889 said:
i believe in the rapture of the church before the suffering

I don't believe in the rapture that was made up in the 1800's.

lambofgod43985889 · Jun 1, 2020

nobody believes me here

klutedavid · Jun 1, 2020

lambofgod43985889 said:
i believe in the rapture of the church before the suffering

I believe that the dead are raised and join the living on that great day. When Jesus returns with His mighty angels.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The dead are not with Christ yet, they are raised when He returns.

We who are alive when He returns join the resurrected dead. Together we meet Him in the clouds.

Nothing about a rapture of the church in that passage.

klutedavid · Jun 1, 2020

lambofgod43985889 said:
nobody believes me here

There are a number of alternative interpretations in eschatology. Don't take it too hard. Look forward with us to that great and terrifying day when He does return.

Richard T · Jun 1, 2020

Most likely you have it right. God is looking to complete His work with the Jews during the tribulation. Christians need to be taken out of the way for this. Besides, Christians have too much authority in Christ, such as the ability to cast out devils etc.

ViaCrucis · Jun 2, 2020

Richard T said:
Most likely you have it right. God is looking to complete His work with the Jews during the tribulation. Christians need to be taken out of the way for this. Besides, Christians have too much authority in Christ, such as the ability to cast out devils etc.

Jewish believers in Jesus Christ are Christians. Because the Church of Jesus Christ is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles. The Apostle says, "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Greek" (Romans 1:16).

God's work "with the Jews" is the same work as with all other people. It is the Gospel of God's kingdom and our salvation which is in Christ for the whole world.

Dispensationalism is not only unbiblical, it is contemptable in its denial and rejection of the Holy Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

JulieB67 · Jun 3, 2020

lambofgod43985889 said:
i believe in the rapture of the church before the suffering

I used to believe in a (pretrib) rapture until I read Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, as well as 1st and 2nd Thessalonians (Paul had to write a second letter because of the confusion his first one caused about the timing of Christ's return) and Revelation.

lambofgod43985889 · Jun 4, 2020

JulieB67 said:
I used to believe in a (pretrib) rapture until I read Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, as well as 1st and 2nd Thessalonians (Paul had to write a second letter because of the confusion his first one caused about the timing of Christ's return) and Revelation.

it's matter of interpretation

Broken Fence · Jun 4, 2020

lambofgod43985889 said:
i believe in the rapture of the church before the suffering

That is my mom's blessed hope and mine too. Just be prepared.

Broken Fence · Jun 4, 2020

klutedavid said:
I believe that the dead are raised and join the living on that great day. When Jesus returns with His mighty angels.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The dead are not with Christ yet, they are raised when He returns.

We who are alive when He returns join the resurrected dead. Together we meet Him in the clouds.

Nothing about a rapture of the church in that passage.

Absent from the body is present with The Lord, remember they thought Peter was an angel, why is that again?

klutedavid · Jun 5, 2020

Broken Fence said:
Absent from the body is present with The Lord, remember they thought Peter was an angel, why is that again?

Depends on the way you interpret the scripture.

I read that a bit different to you. Absent from that fixation with your own flesh is present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:6
Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord...

I am talking about the day when we are changed, not when some soul is under an altar.

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

klutedavid · Jun 5, 2020

JulieB67 said:
I used to believe in a (pretrib) rapture until I read Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, as well as 1st and 2nd Thessalonians (Paul had to write a second letter because of the confusion his first one caused about the timing of Christ's return) and Revelation.

Yes, when you really read Luke 21 carefully and 2 Thessalonians 2 carefully also. The pre-tribulation rapture vanishes in a puff of smoke.

JulieB67 · Jun 5, 2020

klutedavid said:
The pre-tribulation rapture vanishes in a puff of smoke.

Yes, it really does. 2nd Thessalonians really nailed it for me. And when you put it all together...

I was taught the pretrib rapture growing up church and never thought to doubt it, etc. I was fed scriptures, etc. and never once thought to really dive into it for myself. So what an eye opener (Praise God that he opened my eyes) years later when I read the bible for myself and saw that it was not biblical.

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