LDS Heavenly Father

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Ran77

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Welcome back, first of all.

Thanks.


I’m not seeing why this is an issue. Yes, we are being called to worship in spirit. How does that not make the Father a spirit?

Because the items within the same verse are comparative. Meaning, the language is designed to use concepts in parallel to prove a point. Concepts in the first half of the verse are used to explain the concepts in the second half and vice versa. Therefore a literal translation of spirit in the first half of the verse means that a literal translation of spirit is necessary in the second half. That's the way the language works.

It's also an issue because the logic is flawed. Since humans are not beings of spirit only, the only way we can worship is through our spiritual nature as beings of flesh and spirit. Since that's the case, a comparison to God is a Spirit would require God to be a being of flesh and spirit as well . . . or to discard the comparison entirely since it is logically flawed.
 
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Peter1000

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Lol. Okay. Except there’s nothing to disagree on. It’s like me saying that peanuts aren’t nuts, and you saying that we will have to agree to disagree.
No, it would be like you saying you have the original peanut, and I would kindly agree to disagree.
 
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Peter1000

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Anything doctrinal? Am I getting a different gospel?
Yes, these 2 scripture get to the very heart of who Jesus is, see how it changes:
Colossians 1:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

Colossians 1:15 Amplified Bible (AMP)
15 He is the exact living image [the essential manifestation] of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible], the firstborn [the preeminent one, the sovereign, and the originator] of all creation.

Colossians 1:15 The Message (MSG)
Christ Holds It All Together
15 We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God’s original purpose in everything created.

Colossians 1:15 New Life Version (NLV)
15 Christ is as God is. God cannot be seen. Christ lived before anything was made.

At least 2 different doctrines.

One more:

Revelation 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Revelation 3:14 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Message to Laodicea
14 “To the angel (divine messenger) of the church in Laodicea write:

“These are the words of the Amen, the trusted and faithful and true Witness, the Beginning and Origin of God’s creation:

Revelation 3:14 New Life Version (NLV)
Words to the Church in Laodicea
14 “Write this to the angel of the church in the city of Laodicea: ‘The One Who says, Let it be so, the One Who is faithful, the One Who tells what is true, the One Who made everything in God’s world, says this:

Revelation 3:14 International Children’s Bible (ICB)
To the Church in Laodicea
14 “Write this to the angel of the church in Laodicea:
“The Amen is the One who is the faithful and true witness. He is the ruler of all that God has made. He says this to you.

Again, very different and can see 2 doctrines.

I'm sure if I had time, I could write a 1000 page book on errors and copy mistakes and translation liberty that would affect the gospel in many ways.
 
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Hammster

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Yes, these 2 scripture get to the very heart of who Jesus is, see how it changes:
Colossians 1:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

Colossians 1:15 Amplified Bible (AMP)
15 He is the exact living image [the essential manifestation] of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible], the firstborn [the preeminent one, the sovereign, and the originator] of all creation.

Colossians 1:15 The Message (MSG)
Christ Holds It All Together
15 We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God’s original purpose in everything created.

Colossians 1:15 New Life Version (NLV)
15 Christ is as God is. God cannot be seen. Christ lived before anything was made.

At least 2 different doctrines.

One more:

Revelation 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Revelation 3:14 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Message to Laodicea
14 “To the angel (divine messenger) of the church in Laodicea write:

“These are the words of the Amen, the trusted and faithful and true Witness, the Beginning and Origin of God’s creation:

Revelation 3:14 New Life Version (NLV)
Words to the Church in Laodicea
14 “Write this to the angel of the church in the city of Laodicea: ‘The One Who says, Let it be so, the One Who is faithful, the One Who tells what is true, the One Who made everything in God’s world, says this:

Revelation 3:14 International Children’s Bible (ICB)
To the Church in Laodicea
14 “Write this to the angel of the church in Laodicea:
“The Amen is the One who is the faithful and true witness. He is the ruler of all that God has made. He says this to you.

Again, very different and can see 2 doctrines.

I'm sure if I had time, I could write a 1000 page book on errors and copy mistakes and translation liberty that would affect the gospel in many ways.
Really? I meant actual translations. You must really be desperate.
 
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Peter1000

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You’re not saved, so you must repent and believe the gospel.
So my coming to believe in Jesus as my Savior, and having the Holy Spirit come to me and testify that my belief is true, is no good. And so I am not saved.

But your belief in Jesus Christ and your visit by the Holy Spirit to testify to you that your belief is true, is good? And you are saved.

Do you take a lot upon yourself to declare that someone is not saved because they do not believe all things as you do? Maybe even a little haughty, and prideful.
 
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Hammster

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So my coming to believe in Jesus as my Savior, and having the Holy Spirit come to me and testify that my belief is true, is no good.

But your belief in Jesus Christ and your visit by the Holy Spirit to testify to you that your belief is true, is good?

Do you take a lot upon yourself to declare that someone is not saved because they do not believe all things as you do? Maybe even a little prideful.
You have the wrong Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 
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Peter1000

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You have the wrong Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Can we say this:

Lets suppose that I have some of the details about the eternal journey of Jesus Christ wrong.

Lets suppose you too, have some of the details about the eteranl journey of Jesus Christ wrong.

But, we both have one thing right! We both believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior. We both believe this to our core, so that if someone said deny that Jesus Christ is your Savior, or die, we would both choose death.

In this case, I believe the Holy Spirit would come to both of us, and testify to us that our core belief is true, we are both saved, and then when we get to heaven, how long would it take Jesus to get us both updated on the details?

Obviously to us being saved is not that simple, but for our purposes here, we will use your process of being saved. Believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and be baptized of the Holy Spirit and you are saved.
 
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Hammster

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Can we say this:

Lets suppose that I have some of the details about the eternal journey of Jesus Christ wrong.

Lets suppose you too, have some of the details about the eteranl journey of Jesus Christ wrong.

But, we both have one thing right! We both believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior. We both believe this to our core, so that if someone said deny that Jesus Christ is your Savior, or die, we would both choose death.

In this case, I believe the Holy Spirit would come to both of us, and testify to us that our core belief is true, we are both saved, and then when we get to heaven, how long would it take Jesus to get us both updated on the details?

Obviously to us being saved is not that simple, but for our purposes here, we will use your process of being saved. Believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and be baptized of the Holy Spirit and you are saved.
You don’t have details about Jesus wrong. You have the wrong Jesus.
 
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Peter1000

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You don’t have details about Jesus wrong. You have the wrong Jesus.
OK, for the sake of argument, you have everything correct, you know everything there is to know about Jesus from the beginning to the end in perfect knowledge.

I on the other hand have a few things wrong.

But we are both right about the core belief, that Jesus is the Savior of all mankind, and we would die rather than deny this truth.

We both believe in Jesus, and we have both been baptized of the Spirit, and are saved. How long in heaven will it take for Jesus to set me straight on all the details?
 
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Hammster

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OK, for the sake of argument, you have everything correct, you know everything there is to know about Jesus from the beginning to the end in perfect knowledge.

I on the other hand have a few things wrong.

But we are both right about the core belief, that Jesus is the Savior of all mankind, and we would die rather than deny this truth.

We both believe in Jesus, and we have both been baptized of the Spirit, and are saved. How long in heaven will it take for Jesus to set me straight on all the details?
You are still missing the point. You don’t have details wrong concerning Jesus. You have the wrong Jesus.
 
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Hammster

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No, there is only one Jesus, and one of us has some of the details wrong, but we both believe in the one and only Jesus.
No. No we don’t. I don’t believe in your false Jesus.
 
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Peter1000

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Really? I meant actual translations. You must really be desperate.
Really, these are not actual translations??????? The KJV is not one of hundreds of translations of the bible?????

Looks like there is one that is even more desparate than I. Explain yourself?
 
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