Matthew 24:31 is about the rapture

Sort of. It's the post-trib gathering of the gleanings, but it's not the main harvest gathered pre-trib.

If you believe in a post trib rapture that's what this is. Parallel passages are in Luke 21. I voted no in your survey assuming you were asking about pre trib. This is not about pre trib.

Alternative hypothesis: This is about the sending of the apostles and the preaching of the Gospel to the nations.

-CryptoLutheran

friend of said:

Gleanings? What does that mean? Could you elaborate please?

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The gathering of His people is patterned after the stages of the wheat harvest and is mentioned as so in 1 Corinthians 15:21-23. There Paul tells us that those of us in Christ will be made alive, but each in our own order. Of the three stages of harvest, the firstfruits, the main harvest, and the gleanings (the edges of the field left for the poor), he states Christ was the firstfruits. This was a wave offering of a sheaf of grain to the Lord, and once accepted by the Lord, the entire harvest was deemed acceptable and blessed. On first fruits, Christ and some saints were raised from the dead (Matthew 27:52-53) and they were the fulfillment of the sheaf in Leviticus 23:10.

The second part of the harvest is the main harvest, another wave offering is given and is tied directly to a Pentecost fulfillment in Leviticus 23:22. The last part Paul mentions is the gathering at the end, which is the one your verse references and would include the remaining OT saints, as they were promised to be raised on the last day, as well as the trib saints described in Revelation 20:4.

There are numerous in-depth studies on this pattern available online if you desire to look into the concept in more detail.

friend of said:

But it explicitly states that angels will do this work, not human evangelists and preachers...

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In Greek aggelos ("angel") simply means "messenger".

Look at the seven letters to the seven churches in the Apocalypse, each is addressed to the "angel" of the church. It's perhaps very likely that the "angels" of the seven churches are their bishops. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to send a letter to an angel, but it does make sense to write a letter to the church's bishop which would then be read out loud to the community.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

In Greek aggelos ("angel") simply means "messenger".

Look at the seven letters to the seven churches in the Apocalypse, each is addressed to the "angel" of the church. It's perhaps very likely that the "angels" of the seven churches are their bishops. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to send a letter to an angel, but it does make sense to write a letter to the church's bishop which would then be read out loud to the community.

-CryptoLutheran

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I agree that angel means messenger. But it is not to exclusively referring to the bishops - but to the church as a whole, everyone of that church.

You gotta put the whole thing in context and at that it's confirmed in Luke 21. But here are the surrounding verses in Matthew, it's not about apostles lol :
Matthew 24:25-32 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His a]">[a]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Parable of the Fig Tree
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.

friend of said:

Matthew 24:31
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Agree or disagree?

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Not the rapture.

elect from the four winds - the Jews gathered from the nations, Ezekiel 39:28.

elect from one end of the heavens to the other - the martyred great tribulation souls gathered from heaven, for the resurrection of their bodies in Revelation 20:4-6.

Douggg said:

I agree that angel means messenger. But it is not to exclusively referring to the bishops - but to the church as a whole, everyone of that church.

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The message was for the church; but the letters are addressed to "the angel". As the bishop was responsible, as a pastor, for the flock, it would have fell to them to then deliver the contents to the Faithful.

-CryptoLutheran

friend of said:

Matthew 24:31
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

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I would strongly advise you to also quote from Luke 21, and 2 Thessalonians 2.

Far too often, a viewpoint in eschatology is based on Matthew 24 and Luke 21 is ignored. The dead in Christ are raised in 2 Thessalonians 2 but people think they arrive with Jesus?

For some crazy reason, some people think the temple must be rebuilt in the modern era, mind boggling.

Strongly disagree with two raptures and two returns of Jesus Christ viewpoint.

ViaCrucis said:

The message was for the church; but the letters are addressed to "the angel". As the bishop was responsible, as a pastor, for the flock, it would have fell to them to then deliver the contents to the Faithful.

-CryptoLutheran

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I am not following your logic.

John is the one who was instructed to write - "to the angel of of....." When John completed writing down everything in Revelation, there is nothing given of how it was actually disseminated. The angel of each church is the body of the church, all of the members as a whole who are the messenger in spreading the gospel. That is who Jesus is addressing.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

I am not depending upon a bishop, nor pastor, nor any church official to read it to me - because that is not what the text says.

Douggg said:

I am not following your logic.

John is the one who was instructed to write - "to the angel of of....." When John completed writing down everything in Revelation, there is nothing given of how it was actually disseminated. The angel of each church is the body of the church, all of the members as a whole who are the messenger in spreading the gospel. That is who Jesus is addressing.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

I am not depending upon a bishop, nor pastor, nor any church official to read it to me - because that is not what the text says.

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You know how St. Paul writes a letter to the Galatians? Well Galatia was a region in ancient Anatolia, i.e. modern-day Turkey. As such what would have happened is that Paul's letter would have been sent to a church, and it would have been read out loud, and then it would have been sent to another church, and read out loud, and so on and so on.

This is known as an encyclical letter, a letter intended to be circulated by a group.

Just because you have the luxury of living five hundred years after the invention of the moveable-type printing press, and thus to read the Bible all you need to do is buy a Bible at a book store, or even just go online or open an app on your phone--that's simply not how it worked for the first 1,500 years of Christian history.

If you were a Christian living in 100 AD the only way you would have been able to encounter the contents of what St. John wrote on the isle of Patmos was to hear it read out loud by your bishop when you gathered together for worship.

-CryptoLutheran

klutedavid said:

Strongly disagree with two raptures and two returns of Jesus Christ viewpoint.

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If you choose to package 1Thesslonians4:15 the coming of the Lord, in that manner of it being the return of Jesus, the Second Coming.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

...and not

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

the place is in heaven, not here on earth.

Matthew 24:31 is about the gathering of those who remain alive, as per 2 Thess 4:17, when Jesus Returns. It is not a 'rapture to heaven, but a horizontal transportation of those Christians who have stood strong in their faith thru all that will happen before His Return. they will meet Jesus initially in the clouds, then be with Him in Jerusalem for His reign as King of the world.
Those people are not the Jews as Dougg and others wrongly assume, but will be mostly the Christians who were taken to a place of safety during the GT. Revelation 12:14

ViaCrucis said:

You know how St. Paul writes a letter to the Galatians? Well Galatia was a region in ancient Anatolia, i.e. modern-day Turkey. As such what would have happened is that Paul's letter would have been sent to a church, and it would have been read out loud, and then it would have been sent to another church, and read out loud, and so on and so on.

This is known as an encyclical letter, a letter intended to be circulated by a group.

Just because you have the luxury of living five hundred years after the invention of the moveable-type printing press, and thus to read the Bible all you need to do is buy a Bible at a book store, or even just go online or open an app on your phone--that's simply not how it worked for the first 1,500 years of Christian history.

If you were a Christian living in 100 AD the only way you would have been able to encounter the contents of what St. John wrote on the isle of Patmos was to hear it read out loud by your bishop when you gathered together for worship.

-CryptoLutheran

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The problem with that particular interpretation (of the bishops being the angels) and application, is that some church officials, whether they be the Pope, the bishops, the pastors - use it to empower themselves, and to think higher of themselves than they should.

In Revelation, it doesn't instruct any church official to act as go between. Nor to be the only messengers (angels) of Jesus.

The church's are the light of the world - the seven golden candlesticks. And the seven stars - the seven angels - the individuals of the church's as a whole, who spread the gospel of Jesus.

___________________________________________________

To the angel of the church of Philadelphia....

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

.... that is end times, the rapture, which the rationale of needing a literate person to disseminate the message argument goes out the window, in this day and age.

keras said:

Those people are not the Jews as Dougg and others wrongly assume, but will be mostly the Christians who were taken to a place of safety during the GT. Revelation 12:14

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I never spoke of anyone's ethnicity. 1Thessalonians4:15-18 applies to Christians. Their ethnicity may be Jewish, Scottish, Russian, Chinese, mixed, etc.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.