Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Bob S · Jun 3, 2020

Andre_b said:
Galatians 3:15 says a Covenant cannot be changed after the death of the testator.

Jesus confirms the New Covenant:
Luke 22:20 "Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you."

After the new covenant is confirmed
Luke 23:55-56 "…they rested the Sabbath day according to the Commandment.”

The apostles did this just approximately a day after confirming the new covenant. They even wrote about it decades later and never said anything about this being according to the old commandment or old covenant, etc. This was their opportunity to denounce this if it would have been wrong, and could have clarified immediately after this verse to say we no longer have to keep this commandment, or anything really.

Somehow those that want to ignore the 4th commandment have to do major changes and twisting to purely DENY these plain verses that follow in sequence. Let alone Mark 2:27 "SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN"

Ever read the following from Jesus ambassador the apostle Paul:
2 Corinthians 3:6-11 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Why would Paul write that the ten commandments were done away if the old covenant was still in effect? Israel broke the covenant that had the ten commandment law within it. A broken covenant is never binding after one party does not live up to the words of the covenant. Thus when Jesus said He came to fulfil the laws of the soon to be defunct covenant, he meant just as the dictionary relates Fulfil = bring to an end the law.

You people who are trying to put the rest of us under any part of the old covenant are beating a dead horse. Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh—who are called “uncircumcision” by the so-called “circumcision” that is performed on the body by human hands— 12 that you were at that time without the Messiah, alienated from the citizenship of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who used to be far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, the one who made both groups into one and who destroyed the middle wall of partition, the hostility, 15 when he nullified in his flesh the law of commandments in decrees. He did this to create in himself one new man out of two, thus making peace, 16 and to reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by which the hostility has been killed. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near, 18 so that through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer foreigners and noncitizens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of God’s household, 20 because you have been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. What you are doing is like what the Jews were doing to the Gentile Galatians in Gal 3. Paul used the word foolish to describe those who had fallen for the tactics of the Jews that had convinced the Galatians to go under the dictates of the Law.

Andre_b · Jun 3, 2020

Bob S said:
Ever read the following from Jesus ambassador the apostle Paul:
2 Corinthians 3:6-11 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Why would Paul write that the ten commandments were done away if the old covenant was still in effect? Israel broke the covenant that had the ten commandment law within it. A broken covenant is never binding after one party does not live up to the words of the covenant. Thus when Jesus said He came to fulfil the laws of the soon to be defunct covenant, he meant just as the dictionary relates Fulfil = bring to an end the law.

You people who are trying to put the rest of us under any part of the old covenant are beating a dead horse. Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh—who are called “uncircumcision” by the so-called “circumcision” that is performed on the body by human hands— 12 that you were at that time without the Messiah, alienated from the citizenship of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who used to be far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, the one who made both groups into one and who destroyed the middle wall of partition, the hostility, 15 when he nullified in his flesh the law of commandments in decrees. He did this to create in himself one new man out of two, thus making peace, 16 and to reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by which the hostility has been killed. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near, 18 so that through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer foreigners and noncitizens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of God’s household, 20 because you have been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. What you are doing is like what the Jews were doing to the Gentile Galatians in Gal 3. Paul used the word foolish to describe those who had fallen for the tactics of the Jews that had convinced the Galatians to go under the dictates of the Law.

So if the law is abolished according to you twisting the scripture. Explain to me why the apostles did this? Luke 23:55-56 "…they rested the Sabbath day according to the Commandment.”

Explain to me this verse instead of adding twisting scripture. If it was no longer needed why didn't Luke rebuke this when writing this decades later? Why did they even keep the Sabbath after the new covenant was confirmed?

Please stop quoting verses that you do not understand.

pasifika · Jun 3, 2020

Studyman said:
I don't even know what you are rambling about here.

I said "Therefore, it seems according to the Holy Scriptures, God created both Evil and Good, and "set them before us". So then didn't God place the serpent He created, into the Garden? I can find no other reasonable conclusion."

To which you replied "So, the evil serpent or devil was not created by God on the earth with the other animals in the garden with Adam and Eve in creation as how you interpreted scriptures..

Who knows what you are trying to say now.

But if I listen to the God of the Bible, here is what HE says;

Gen. 1:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

I thought maybe you might pick up on the talking snake thing, but alas, you didn't.

Is. 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

And again:

Col. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And Again:

Duet 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

I'm not sure what "voice" taught you that it goes against God's Nature to create right and Good and wrong and Evil, and then set them before us to choose. Just as HE did for Eve. I'm not sure how many more scriptures you need before you will believe His Word's in Genesis. Religious tradition is a powerful deceptive force we are warned about over and over and over.

I hope you might consider these warnings.

God created both evil and good then He created an evil serpent in creation? Is that what youre saying?
So if God created good and evil then man already chose to do evil rather then good... Romans 3:10-12..there is No one righteous, not even one, there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away.... there is no one who does good Not even One...

My understanding was that evil was found within a righteous or blameless annointed guardian cherub Ezekiel 28:15...
But according to Isaiah 45:7 you quoted is saying something else..

Andre_b · Jun 3, 2020

Bob S said:
Ever read the following from Jesus ambassador the apostle Paul:
2 Corinthians 3:6-11 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

Why would Paul write that the ten commandments were done away if the old covenant was still in effect? Israel broke the covenant that had the ten commandment law within it. A broken covenant is never binding after one party does not live up to the words of the covenant. Thus when Jesus said He came to fulfil the laws of the soon to be defunct covenant, he meant just as the dictionary relates Fulfil = bring to an end the law.

According to you fufill mins bring to an end. Let's use your logic one again.

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

Using your definition "I did not come to destroy but to bring to an end". Destroy means bring it to an end. According to your definition it would contract itself right here.

He came to fill up what was lacking, to develop hints and germs of truth, to turn rules into principles. Interpreted on a wider scale, He came to "fulfil the Law and prophets," as He came "to fulfil all righteousness"

Yet fufill in the king James Old English means:
Fill up also accomplish. Accomplish something we couldn't, but he didn't destroy them hence they are still there to be obeyed. Or else you live in lawlessness it's simple.

Your interpretation is not logical in the verse context.

Studyman · Jun 3, 2020

pasifika said:
God created both evil and good then He created an evil serpent in creation? Is that what youre saying?

If you are convinced that God didn’t exist before He created the earth, then I don’t know what to say.

pasifika · Jun 3, 2020

Studyman said:
If you are convinced that God didn’t exist before He created the earth, then I don’t know what to say.

I didn't say that..Rev 12:7-12 state that the ancient serpent was Satan hurled down from heaven to earth...and appeared to Eve through the created eathly serpent...and as you pointed out He spoke to Eve...

Bob S · Jun 3, 2020

Andre_b said:
According to you fufill mins bring to an end. Let's use your logic one again.

Fulfil =
to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise. Jesus did that
to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands. Jesus did that
to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.) Jesus did that
to bring to an end; finish or complete, Jesus did that

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

Jesus didn't have todestroy the old covenant, Israel had already done that. Why do you think Jesus had to come with the new covenant?

Using your definition "I did not come to destroy but to bring to an end". Destroy means bring it to an end. According to your definition it would contract itself right here.

According to what you write you are not comprehending.

He came to fill up what was lacking,

Please show us where there is a defination for fulfil that means fill up. Please tell us what was lacking. David said the Law was perfect converting the soul.

to develop hints and germs of truth, to turn rules into principles. Interpreted on a wider scale, He came to "fulfil the Law and prophets," as He came "to fulfil all righteousness"

Yet fufill in the king James Old English means:
Fill up also accomplish. Accomplish something we couldn't, but he didn't destroy them hence they are still there to be obeyed. Or else you live in lawlessness it's simple.

When we accomplish something we end it fulfil the requirements. Nothing more need be done. He brought the tssk to an end. Bringing the Law to an end does not mean He destroyed it. As I said Israel did a good job of doing that.

As to being lawless, since you know little or nothing about the subject you and your Adventist friends would draw that conclusion. A big part of the Earth's population has never heard of the ten commandments yet they have a moral code. Another thing to put in your pipe an smoke for a while is that fact that the ten commandments were just the tip of the iceberg as to how we are to treat our God and our fellow man. The ten didn't even mention the greatest commands.

Your interpretation is not logical in the verse context.

If you would bone up on the subject you would see the truth

Bob S · Jun 3, 2020

Andre_b said:
According to you fufill mins bring to an end. Let's use your logic one again.

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

Using your definition "I did not come to destroy but to bring to an end". Destroy means bring it to an end. According to your definition it would contract itself right here.

He came to fill up what was lacking, to develop hints and germs of truth, to turn rules into principles. Interpreted on a wider scale, He came to "fulfil the Law and prophets," as He came "to fulfil all righteousness"

Yet fufill in the king James Old English means:
Fill up also accomplish. Accomplish something we couldn't, but he didn't destroy them hence they are still there to be obeyed. Or else you live in lawlessness it's simple.

Your interpretation is not logical in the verse context.

I notice that you didn't comment on the scriptures in my post. Did they cause you a problem with your theology?

Andre_b said:
So if the law is abolished according to you twisting the scripture. Explain to me why the apostles did this? Luke 23:55-56 "…they rested the Sabbath day according to the Commandment.”

The apostles at the time of Ascension were not trying to start a new religion. It was not until Pentecost that they started to really take hold of the things we take for granite.

Explain to me this verse instead of adding twisting scripture. If it was no longer needed why didn't Luke rebuke this when writing this decades later? Why did they even keep the Sabbath after the new covenant was confirmed?

Where do you get the idea they "kept" the Sabbath. Do you observe the feast days? Paul wrote that he did, why?

By the way, Dr Luke was a Gentile and the verse you quoted says "they" not we. I would be surprised if Luke was allowed in the Temple.

Please stop quoting verses that you do not understand.

Andre_b · Jun 3, 2020

Bob S said:
Fulfil =
to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise. Jesus did that
to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands. Jesus did that
to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.) Jesus did that
to bring to an end; finish or complete, Jesus did that

Jesus didn't have todestroy the old covenant, Israel had already done that. Why do you think Jesus had to come with the new covenant?

According to what you write you are not comprehending.

Please show us where there is a defination for fulfil that means fill up. Please tell us what was lacking. David said the Law was perfect converting the soul.

When we accomplish something we end it fulfil the requirements. Nothing more need be done. He brought the tssk to an end. Bringing the Law to an end does not mean He destroyed it. As I said Israel did a good job of doing that.

As to being lawless, since you know little or nothing about the subject you and your Adventist friends would draw that conclusion. A big part of the Earth's population has never heard of the ten commandments yet they have a moral code. Another thing to put in your pipe an smoke for a while is that fact that the ten commandments were just the tip of the iceberg as to how we are to treat our God and our fellow man. The ten didn't even mention the greatest commands.

If you would bone up on the subject you would see the truth

So I completed building my car. Did it disappear and no longer exists? Completed doesn't mean destroy. That why the word ABOLISH is before, as in think NOT that it is ABOLISHED.

Again stop ignoring the new covenant and EXPLAIN THIS:
They rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. That was AFTER THE CROSS.

You deflect with the great Commandments which are a SUMMARY OF THE TEN. The GREAT COMMANDMENTS WAS FROM THE OLD Testament which Jesus QUOTED. It is a few verses AFTER GIVING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IN DEUTERONOM 6:5.

Definition for fill up in the time of the KJV:
Oxford dictionary:
late Old English fullfyllan ‘fill up, make full’ (see full, fill).

It says it in the word fulfill. Full fill, as in fill until full.

What was to fill up? He gave a few more commandments to keep also, believe on the the Son Jesus Christ. What about the adultery in the heart by looking at a woman and lusting for her, what about murder in the heart also? Where was that in the Old Testament? There are many other things that he completed and filled up. He made it complicate that's why he said he didn't abolish. Even if Israel abolished it Jesus did not.

HARK! · Jun 4, 2020

Bob S said:
Jesus didn't have todestroy the old covenant, Israel had already done that. Why do you think Jesus had to come with the new covenant?

Yahshua didn't speak of any covenant in that verse. You've presented a strawman argument.

HARK! · Jun 4, 2020

Bob S said:
Fulfil =
to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise. Jesus did that
to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands. Jesus did that
to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.) Jesus did that
to bring to an end; finish or complete, Jesus did that

My Bible doesn't say fulfill. I use a literal translation.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

You have to dig deep to come up with fulfill.

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
1. of events
to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
1. of men appearing in public
to be made, finished
1. of miracles, to be performed, wrought
to become, be made

G1096 - ginomai - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

Here is another statement that Yahshua made about the law:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

HARK! · Jun 4, 2020

Bob S said:
Paul wrote that he did, why?

Why did Paul keep the Moedim; and why did he tell his disciples, coming over from being gentile Pagans, to keep Passover? Do you realize that according to the law, you must be circumcised to keep Passover?

JLB777 · Jun 4, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
The key is "if which they are seeking to be justified by the law of Moses". The law of Moses has not been nailed to the cross, and abolished in His flesh...the CURSE has...we now have grace when we sin

Galatians 3:13

The law of Moses is what divided Jew from Gentile, the uncircumcised from the circumcised.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Ephesians 2:14-16

having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

JLB

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jun 4, 2020

JLB777 said:
The law of Moses is what divided Jew from Gentile, the uncircumcised from the circumcised.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Ephesians 2:14-16

having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

JLB

And yet ANY gentile could join themselves to Israel...a ger toshav...there was even a court of the gentiles at The temple...could this be the wall of separation...now through Yeshua, both Jew and gentile can come in! My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations. The gentile can now be grafted in! Also, in Pauls time, Rabbis (pharisees) were called "bonei hacheitz" (fence or wall builders) because they built fences (rabbinic ordinances) around the commandments

Studyman · Jun 4, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
And yet ANY gentile could join themselves to Israel...a ger toshav...there was even a court of the gentiles at The temple...could this be the wall of separation...now through Yeshua, both Jew and gentile can come in! My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations. The gentile can now be grafted in! Also, in Pauls time, Rabbis (pharisees) were called "bonei hacheitz" (fence or wall builders) because they built fences (rabbinic ordinances) around the commandments

That is right. It wasn't God who taught that Gentiles were "without God and without hope in the world", it was the "Circumcision". The "shepherds" that God had given the exclusive duty to administer God's Laws. They had corrupted them and were "teaching for the doctrines the commandments of men."

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

The Mainstream preachers of that time, (circumcision) and for centuries, had created their own religion, and by it, had led people astray. Where else could people go? They didn't have the Holy Scriptures in their house, they were required, by law, to learn about God from these shepherds.

It was their law that condemned Jesus to death, it was their law that condemned men of a certain DNA as without God and without hope in the world. Not God's.

Jesus exposed them as deceivers. Their law condemned Him to death, but couldn't hold Him. He made a show of them openly, and triumphed over them when His Father reversed their condemnation, and made Him, who they hated and despised, their King.

What will happen when God opens their eyes again and they look on Him who they hated and despised and killed, only now He isn't a Lamb, but their Judge? The Bible uses the phrase "Weeping and gnashing of teeth".

It was the "Commandments of Men" that caused the partition. It was their ordinances that Jesus exposed and abolished in His Flesh. Not His Father's Words.

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

As it was supposed to be all along.

Is. 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Great post Yeshua HaDerekh

Studyman · Jun 4, 2020

Bob S said:
Ever read the following from Jesus ambassador the apostle Paul:
2 Corinthians 3:6-11 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Why would Paul write that the ten commandments were done away if the old covenant was still in effect?

Paul didn't write that the 10 Commandments are done away with. Religious men teach this, not Paul.

When the Christ promised and defined His New Covenant in Jer. 31, He told us 2 things that would change.

#1. How God's Laws are administered.

In the Old Covenant God made Aaron and his sons (Levites) Ministers of His Word.

Ex. 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

Heb. 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

#2. How transgression of God's Laws are atoned for.

16 And the priest that is anointed (Levite) shall bring of the bullock's blood to the tabernacle of the congregation:

Lev. 4:17 And the priest shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, even before the vail.

18 And he shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar which is before the LORD, that is in the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall pour out all the blood at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

19 And he shall take all his fat from him, and burn it upon the altar.

20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

Heb. 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

The "ministration of death" was not God's Holy, Just and Good Laws, it was the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial requirement of death for the atonement of Sins.

God made a Covenant with Levi on Mt. Sinai, on Israel's behalf, "til the Seed should come". He speaks of this through His Prophet Malachi.

Mal. 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. (Ex. 32)

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

The Christ inspired Jeremiah to speak of this as well.

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

So what did God do?

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levites who corrupted God's Covenant and led people astray) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

#1. I will put my laws into their mind, (No more Levites to minister in the Priest's Office, HE will become our High Priest)

#1.for I will forgive their iniquity, (No more Levite Priest's to perform sacrificial "Works of the Law" for atonement of sins (Justification), He became our High Priest and atoned for our sins with His own Blood.

"Many" who come in Christ's Name, have been convinced that it was God's Laws that led people astray, and not the shepherds HE came to expose and replace.

Paul understood what the "Ministration of Death" given to Moses was. And it wasn't "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and Love thy neighbor as thyself". It was "bring a bull to the alter for your sins, and kill it".

Bob S · Jun 4, 2020

Studyman said:
Paul didn't write that the 10 Commandments are done away with. Religious men teach this, not Paul.

Then who was it that wrote 2Cor 3: 6-11? Sorry brother but you have your head in the sand. Bone up.

6 who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. KJV

6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant – not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! NIVUK

Bob S · Jun 4, 2020

HARK! said:
Why did Paul keep the Moedim; and why did he tell his disciples, coming over from being gentile Pagans, to keep Passover? Do you realize that according to the law, you must be circumcised to keep Passover?

I am sure glad that I don't sit at your feet learn of salvation. None of Jesus disciples were Gentile except Luke who was not part of the 12 that observed the Last Supper. Yes, I am aware the one had to be circumcised to take part in Passover. Since there is no Passover now that the Law has changed and all mankind are under the new and better covenant we don't have to worry about that outward appearance. I wonder if one had to show that they were kosher in order to enter the Temple or take part in the ceremonies?

HARK! · Jun 4, 2020

Bob S said:
I am sure glad that I don't sit at your feet learn of salvation. None of Jesus disciples were Gentile except Luke who was not part of the 12 that observed the Last Supper. Yes, I am aware the one had to be circumcised to take part in Passover. Since there is no Passover now that the Law has changed and all mankind are under the new and better covenant we don't have to worry about that outward appearance. I wonder if one had to show that they were kosher in order to enter the Temple or take part in the ceremonies?

(CLV) 1Co 5:7
Clean out, then, the old leaven, that you may be a fresh kneading, according as you are unleavened. For our Passover also, Christ, was sacrificed for our sakes

(CLV) 1Co 5:8
so that we may be keeping the festival, not with old leaven, nor yet with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened sincerity and truth.

You realize that Paul was not of the 12 that observed the last supper; nor were those who this was written to; no? You do realize that this was written long after Yahshua had ascended; no?

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

Andre_b · Jun 4, 2020

Bob S said:
Then who was it that wrote 2Cor 3: 6-11? Sorry brother but you have your head in the sand. Bone up.

6 who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. KJV

Let's look at it in proper details.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 ...'Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.'

The first point to make here is this. By what did Moses 'minister' to the Israelites? It was the 'letter' of the law right? The Israelites were governed by the letter of the law. And what did the letter of the law do?

Exodus 31:14 ...'Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.'

Can you see here how the 'letter' of the law killeth? This is how the Israelites were governed in the Old Testament. We are told by John that 'sin is the transgression of the law' (1 John 3:4), and Ezekiel 18:20 says that the 'soul that sinneth, it shall die.' So what does the letter of the law do when we look at it? It shows that we are worthy of death, because we have all transgressed the law of God. Paul said himself in Romans 7:9-11 that when the commandment came, he 'died' and it 'slew him.' This is what that 'mirror', that 'schoolmaster' is supposed to do - to show us our sin and defects of character. But that is as far as the written

law in of itself can go. So if there was nothing else, only the written 'letter' of the law, what would it do to us? It would slay us! This is because the law is 'holy and good' (Romans 7:12), and we are not. But there is no provision within the written ten commandments itself to save us. It merely shows us what is right and what is sin.

Now please note the context of what Paul says in verses 3-6 above. He is talking of how the apostles are ministers of the new testament. So the context is about 'ministration.' This will help with the following verses of 2 Corinthians 3.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 ...'But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.'

It is amazing how many people look at those words ... 'written and engraven in stones' ... and 'done away' and apply this to meaning that the ten commandments are now 'done away with', without even looking at all the other words in these verses. Do you see why I mentioned to look at the context of what Paul was saying in verses 3 to 6? That he was talking about 'ministration'? And now look at verses 7 to 11 above. What is the context? 'MINISTRATION.' Look at what Paul is saying. He is NOT saying that the ten commandments were 'done away.' He is saying that the ministration of the ten commandments was done away. And what ministration was that? The ministration of Moses.

What was the 'glory' which was 'to be done away' according to the above verses? The glory of Moses' counternance, not the ten commandments. Moses had just been in the presence of God on the mount, and his counternance shone with the glory of God's righteousness, to which the written law is a transcript of. But instead of seeing the righteousness of God through the law and the work that Christ was to do for them, the Israelites simply looked to Moses and the written law. They couldn't see past Moses to Christ and what Christ was to do for them. They could not bear even the sight of Christ's glory through Moses' face, and this is why Moses had to put a veil over his face.

2 Corinthians 3:12-16 ...'Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.'

First of all, where was the veil placed? Was it placed over the tablets of stone with the ten commandments? No, it was placed over the face of Moses. And what did that veil cover? It covered the 'dimmed' glory of Christ's righteousness that shone through Moses' face. This is what the Israelites could not see and this is what was to be 'abolished' - the 'glory' of the ministration of Moses (man) on behalf of Jesus Christ and which pointed to the ministration of Christ Himself in the new testament covenant.

Paul is not saying the ten commandments were abolished in the new testament covenant. Because Paul even said himself in Romans 3:31 ...'Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.' How can you 'establish' something that is 'abolished'? No, Paul is clearly saying in 2 Corinthians 3 that it was the ministration of the law which was to be abolished - the ministration of MAN. This was replaced by the ministration of the Spirit - of Jesus Christ Himself.

Think about it! What could Moses and the priestly service of the Levites do for man? Could they write the law upon the hearts of men? No, they could do no more than what the written law itself can do for us? Show us our sin and point us to Christ. But what can Christ Himself, through the ministration of the Spirit do for us? Write the law upon our hearts and GIVE US LIFE! This is why the 'ministration' of man through the written letter had to be 'abolished' and replaced with the ministration of the Spirit. But what remains constant through all of this? THE LAW OF GOD.

Don't just skim the verse and highlight the area trying to make it say something it is NOT. You simply highlight the word glory at one place and engraved in stones and simply IGNORE the rest of the text. This is how Eve was deceived in the garden.

Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Did Adam and Eve keep each seventh-day Sabbath?

Yes

No

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