Has there ever been a President more divisive than Trump?

Albion

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Well, several states did secede over Abraham Lincoln, but I wouldn't put the blame on Lincoln's shoulders for that.
Possibly not, but probably so. He was at the eye of the storm from the time he ran for president, and his election set secession into motion.

He probably was the most divisive, although many Americans rank him as the greatest for what they think he accomplished, controversy or no controversy.
 
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cow451

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Possibly not, but probably so. He was at the eye of the storm from the time he ran for president, and his election set secession into motion.

He probably was the most divisive, although many Americans rank him as the greatest for what they think he accomplished, controversy or no controversy.
Can you imagine how badly the nation would have fared had Donald Trump been President instead of Lincoln?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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No you said Obama was a divisive president by being elected President. I quoted your post.

That's true as well. All presidential elections keep the country divided.
 
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Albion

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Hopefully, history textbooks that give an accurate account of both the good and the evil in our past, rather than public buildings and monuments and flags that seem to indicate pride in the dark side.
Many Confederate memorials, not just the statues that are the most obvious targets, are simply tributes to the soldiers who gave their lives for their state and country. And most of them never owned any slaves.

How awful it would be if someday we could not respect the memory of all the young men who made the ultimate sacrifice on the battlefields of our country.
 
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KCfromNC

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That was sort of a 'cake walk' compared with the complete opposition, at all times, of one of the major political parties to President Trump.
Would that be the one that was a minority party in both the House and Senate during half of Donald's term? Just making sure we're clear on how terrible he had it to have to fight his own party for the first half of his presidency.
 
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KCfromNC

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Obama wrecked healthcare for those of us that are middle class and pay for our own insurance. My insurance cost quadrupled all so other people can get it for free. And I need it.
I find it difficult to believe that people really think that insurance costs were totally flat until 2010.
 
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Albion

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Would that be the one that was a minority party in both the House and Senate during half of Donald's term?
The point was that Obama had much less trouble getting his way with Congress. There is no doubt of that.
 
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Evan Jellicoe

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That was sort of a 'cake walk' compared with the complete opposition, at all times, of one of the major political parties to President Trump.
Everybody thinks they are being attacked unfairly, and that people are just making all that nasty stuff up out of thin air, because, you know, hate.

I think it was Bill Clinton who popularized the term "politics of personal destruction." Clearly he thought he had been attacked by a completely unfair, hate-motivated political party, who just made stuff up when they attacked Clinton. In Bill's mind, apparently, there was simply no reason for his impeachment except the aforementioned politics of personal destruction.

But I noticed an interesting thing then, and I notice it now: political accusations are rarely made up out of pure fantasy. They always seem to have some sort of rationale, some kind of "where there's smoke, there must be fire" reasoning. Some commentator--I have long since forgotten who--once pointed out that for all of the venom that people spat at Richard Nixon, no credible person ever accused him of cheating on his wife. There simply was no evidence for it. No smoke, no accusations.

And that makes me think of Jimmy Carter. What fun it would have been to accuse a smug "born-again" Christian of not being a good Christian at all! Especially after he confessed to the whole world that he had committed adultery "in his heart." Why not pin the real thing on him, too? But to my knowledge, nobody ever even tried. They accused him of cowardice (remember the attack rabbit?) and sheer incompetence, and lots of other stuff that at least had some evidence (even if it wasn't actual proof), but never a hint of cheating on Rosalynn.

So I suppose I am skeptical that all of these nasty attacks on Donald Trump are entirely made up. There's generally a reason when so many people are reduced to foaming-at-the-mouth rage at a man, and the reason is probably not mass hallucinations.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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Many Confederate memorials, not just the statues that are the most obvious targets, are simply tributes to the soldiers who gave their lives for their state and country. And most of them never owned any slaves.

How awful it would be if someday we could not respect the memory of all the young men who made the ultimate sacrifice on the battlefields of our country.

The bolded is wrong. Those soldiers gave their lives committing treason against their country.
 
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Albion

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I think it was Bill Clinton who popularized the term "politics of personal destruction." Clearly he thought he had been attacked by a completely unfair, hate-motivated political party, who just made stuff up when they attacked Clinton. In Bill's mind, apparently, there was simply no reason for his impeachment except the aforementioned politics of personal destruction.
He may live in that fantasy, but having to give up his Arkansas law license and his right to argue cases before the Supreme Court, so as not to be prosecuted,
being fined three different times for a total of almost a million dollars, admitting to lying under oath, and even more than this...is not "made up stuff."
 
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Evan Jellicoe

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He may live in that fantasy, but being forced to give up his Arkansas law license and his right to argue cases before the Supreme Court, being fined three different times for a total of almost a million dollars, admitting to lying under oath, and even more than this...is not "made up stuff."
Of course it wasn't. That was my point. There was a reason for Clinton's troubles.
So in the same way there is a reason for Donald Trump's troubles. They aren't just made up out of nothing by the nasty opposition.
 
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Evan Jellicoe

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There is NO "same way." That's the point.
I'm not totally sure, but I think you just said "But it's different with Trump." If I'm wrong, please explain what you did mean, because if that is what you meant to say, then, no, it is not different with Trump. The criticisms of him are not being made up out of pure fantasy.
BTW, "in the same way" refers to the same "where's there's smoke, there must be fire" reasoning, not that any specific things that Trump has done are the same as what Clinton did.
 
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Evan Jellicoe

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Yeh, it is; and I just gave you the list.
I am puzzled by your reference to a list. I neither see nor recall a list.
As for the other, now you're just asserting that if Trump does something, it must be perfectly innocent. And if I continue to insist that that is dishonest, you will continue to insist that it's not. Like a ping pong game.
Nah.
 
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Evan Jellicoe

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If I continue to insist that that is dishonest, you will continue to insist that it's not. Like a ping pong game.
Nah.
You know what, Albion? I don't like the way I responded at all. Too flippant and curt. Rude. Unsatisfactory.
Yet I honestly cannot figure out a right way to respond to somebody who obviously has some intelligence, yet insists that a simple assertion like "The anger against Donald Trump is not pure fantasy. It has some basis in actual events." For you to deny that would be like me insisting that every attack leveled at Joe Biden was baseless because Joe is a right guy who never does anything wrong. That would be preposterous.
So why do you do it for Trump? I genuinely do not understand, and I also apologize for a hasty and rude answer that was caused by frustration. I am sorry.
 
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SimplyMe

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To take this back to the OP, I'm fascinated by what is being said (and not said) in Canada in response to the current events in the US. First we had PM Trudeau going quiet for 21 seconds after being asked what he thought of Trump's call of military force against protestors.

To me, I'm "deafened by the silence." To me, it is clear what he wanted to say but that it took a polished politician 21 seconds to not say that -- and to figure out a political acceptable answer.

At the same time, he's being criticized for that non-answer in Canada, as they wanted him to actually say the things he worked so hard not to say -- even many Canadian conservatives are calling for it.

Sadly, one of the best jokes I heard this week is that "Canada must feel like they live in an apartment above a meth lab." I don't think there is much question that Canada (as a whole) feels that Trump is the most divisive President in US history.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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It depends on the context of that word "divisive"...

People can be staunchly divided on anyone, whether it's the fault of the person they're divided over would be subject to evaluation.

I'd say that Trump has encouraged a lot of divide...as to where much of the divide about Obama was no fault of his own.

However, while Trump has 'poured some gas on the fire' in a lot of instances, some of the divide has been no fault of his own either.

For instance, when he makes asinine comments that he knows full well a sizable portion of people will interpret a certain way, those are his fault.

When he does something that any other leader would've done, but the far-left finds reasons to be outraged with it, that falls into the latter "no fault of their own" category.

In terms of direct action causing divide, I'd say Trump is more directly divisive than others, however, that's only looking at it through a 30 year lens.

People tend to have a short term memory when it comes to presidents.

For instance:
Abraham Lincoln gets regarded as some sort of champion of Black rights and the great emancipator after saying this:
upload_2020-6-4_19-42-6.png


...which I think we'd all agree is more egregious than anything Trump has ever said.

So in terms of divisiveness with regards to Trump, in the last 30 years, maybe? Of all time, No.
 
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