Christianity is making me miserable

curlycurl · Jun 4, 2020

*trigger warning* I’m going to talk about some pretty upsetting stuff so if you are mentally struggling and don’t need triggers, maybe don’t read this.

Hi everyone, I don’t want to be negative or disrespectful in this post, but want to know that I’m not the only one who feels this way, or if anyone who felt this way ever got over it.
In the last few years I’ve been in a constant state of believing and not believing.
And its miserable. I could really use some words of encouragement ):

The idea of Christianity is so hopeless to me.
If I see am message that someone died I can only worry about them being in hell, I can’t even grief. How can I live while thinking people are going to be tortured, imagining them screeching, screaming and crying out in pain forever.
I see a message about a natural disaster and I just think about how that country isn’t mostly Christian and I think about all the people, teenager and maybe even kids going to Hell.

When I wasn’t religious I could just grief for the life that was lost but now every person I see I am scared for their salvation, even if they are Christian, knowing that a lot of Christians aren’t saved either.
I see so many Christians become so much happier and complete when coming to God while I’m absolutely miserable, I’ve never been in such a low point in my whole life.

All I worry about is my salvation (if you haven’t read my other posts on here, I struggle allot with OCD and the fear of the unforgivable sin) And the salvation of the ones I love.
I was so much happier when I was not believing, because I knew that no matter how much suffering I or anyone else experienced, death was final, nothing, no pain, no suffering. And that was so freeing to me, I was totally fine with my life having no meaning and just be gone forever. It gave me happiness.
I could just live my life without constantly worrying about everything, about my every move, about my life choices, about other's live choices. And my OCD was so much less bad. I’m so terrified of going to hell.

I came to God in the first place because of fear of hell, which isn’t a good motivation but it’s the truth.
I wish God didn’t make us, I don’t want billions of people to experience excruciating pain for all of eternity. If God knew this was the fate for most humans, why did he make us?
He made us and than made hell the punishment, knowing most humans would end up there.
I wish God woulp help me understand that.

I heard some people say that once in heaven we understand why anyone needs to go there and see sin for the crime it is, but what about the depression we get from it now? While we are alive? And I know Christ felt sad for people who were suffering, so why wouldn’t we feel pain for people suffering in hell?

I often feel like Christians who talk about hell don’t really think about it, just think about a person being on fire, you know how bad it hurts to burn your finger on a stove, you know you can’t even hold your finger there for 2 seconds, now imagine how painful and unbearable it is to be on fire. I think we humans are not able to imagine pain that well but If you burn your finger while imagining it you can get an idea. Even I get desensitized to the idea after a while.
Now imagine being on fire for 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years, all of that, and then you haven’t even gotten started, that’s not even 0,000000000000000000000001% of the time you’re there, its eternity, forever, it never ends, we can’t even start to imagine that.
And even if hell wasn’t being on fire forever, any place of suffering and torture for so long is unimaginable.

How am I supposed to live knowing that exists? That people I love may go there, that anyone may go there, that most humans will go there.
Why aren't Christians who believe that not desperately running around begging everyone to get saved, most Christians just live their normal life.

I’m crying out to God to help me but I’m only sinking deeper and deeper.
This is no way of living
How can I love God when I desperately don’t want him to be real. I don’t want it to be like this. I so badly hope that Christianity is actually not real but at the same time I want to believe and be saved.
Which is a impossible situation to be in.
Help please ):

Tolworth John · Jun 4, 2020

curlycurl said:
wish God didn’t make us, I don’t want billions of people to experience excruciating pain for all of eternity. If God knew this was the fate for most humans, why did he make us?

I understand that you feel real pain at the thought of people being tortured, on fire etc etc.
Your compassion is a credit to you.
But
It shows a lack of understanding of God and of he bible.

God does not send innocent people to be tortured.

Understand that God does not want anyone to go to hell.

Now it is going to get complicated.
Are we, are you, am I independent beings making our choices or areas pre programmed robots?

If all humanity is making there own independent choices who is responsible for the choice made about accepting or rejecting Jesus?
Hell what is it?
It is eternal separation from God and all the blessings and good things he gives.
No one goes there who did not chose to go here.
From God's view point good means following and keying Him and evil is to reject him.

It is complicated and I have simplified it, may I also suggest that you add into your pray time, prayers for those you know who don't know Jesus as Saviour.

DebbieJ · Jun 4, 2020

This is what I believe:

1) Only those who took the mark of the beast will burn alive in the lake of fire forever. This is a special punishment reserved only for people who has the mark.

2) Those who did not accept Christ will simply perish and not burn forever because hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire. If there is no hell, where would one go? They would simply poof out of existence.

3) When we die, we either go to hades/hell or paradise. Hades is just an unbearable hot place. After this, you'll be brought to life again to face the white throne judgment.

Those who have the mark of the beast will go to the lake of fire.
Those who did not make it in the book of life will simply poof out of existence.

When the day comes, you better not accept the mark even if you don't believe in Christ because you'll be in very scary situation with no remedy and forgiveness. Better for one to poof out of existence than to spend eternity in the lake of fire.

Blade · Jun 4, 2020

Hey.... Forgive me Father....hell...no books have been open.. no one has been sent there to suffer to then be pulled out to then be tossed back in. I go with NO MAN knows.

As if Satan and all those fallen angels and demons don't suffer... nothing happens to them right now. But.. man.. man that has no clue about this GOD..anyway..

May this help. Jesus said "if you were BLIND you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains". So how many people KNOW God.. seen heaven.. know about JESUS Christ.. know.. they have no doubts what so ever. Yeah.. can you even count them on one hand out of over 7 billion?

The bible in REV talks about these PEOPLE all dressed in white robes.. and the number of them? You can't count.. take a guess WHERE those people come from

yes.. anyone that follows Satan.. is lost. But... look out into the world.. whos TRUTH is GOD going to hold them accountable to? Here in this site alone.. they debate about..once saved always saved..or you can lose your salvation. Loving caring believers.

See all we know is sin darkness..thats what we were born into. God know this. Why its so easy to be found/saved. Satan.. knows God.. seen Him in all His glory and power. They KNEW what they were leaving.. and wanted to. Thats why they can not just repent. So you and me.. never seen Him.. or Him in all His glory.. we know nothing about that. Oh.. want to talk about SIN? We know that.. born into it.

See I look at it like this.. WHO tells me most will be lost? Not God.. man. Yeah.. and no man has some inside scoop on this. Everyone gets a chance.. that means.. they will KNOW in some way HIM.. be it right after they die..I don't know.. it is far easier to be found then lost.

So know that GOD never uses fear worry or doubt. ALL those are lies from the enemy. So think about all those thoughts and what not.. was there fear worry doubt? Yeah.. all lies. God has not given us the spirit of fear.

So...from your heart. Talk to Him..no tell Him everything. Ask what ever...THEN..know no matter what you feel hear or see..KNOW He heard you.. Its written He always does.. but DOUBT always stops God. If you doubt.. tell Him sorry and keep going. He will tell you and will back it up by His word. Song.. theres a great great Joy in JESUS! Sad? in that moment.. NO! the JOY of the lord is my strength. His armor.. His strength.. on and on.. praying for you

Qwertyui0p · Jun 4, 2020

curlycurl said:
*trigger warning* I’m going to talk about some pretty upsetting stuff so if you are mentally struggling and don’t need triggers, maybe don’t read this.

Hi everyone, I don’t want to be negative or disrespectful in this post, but want to know that I’m not the only one who feels this way, or if anyone who felt this way ever got over it.
In the last few years I’ve been in a constant state of believing and not believing.
And its miserable. I could really use some words of encouragement ):

The idea of Christianity is so hopeless to me.
If I see am message that someone died I can only worry about them being in hell, I can’t even grief. How can I live while thinking people are going to be tortured, imagining them screeching, screaming and crying out in pain forever.
I see a message about a natural disaster and I just think about how that country isn’t mostly Christian and I think about all the people, teenager and maybe even kids going to Hell.

When I wasn’t religious I could just grief for the life that was lost but now every person I see I am scared for their salvation, even if they are Christian, knowing that a lot of Christians aren’t saved either.
I see so many Christians become so much happier and complete when coming to God while I’m absolutely miserable, I’ve never been in such a low point in my whole life.

All I worry about is my salvation (if you haven’t read my other posts on here, I struggle allot with OCD and the fear of the unforgivable sin) And the salvation of the ones I love.
I was so much happier when I was not believing, because I knew that no matter how much suffering I or anyone else experienced, death was final, nothing, no pain, no suffering. And that was so freeing to me, I was totally fine with my life having no meaning and just be gone forever. It gave me happiness.
I could just live my life without constantly worrying about everything, about my every move, about my life choices, about other's live choices. And my OCD was so much less bad. I’m so terrified of going to hell.

I came to God in the first place because of fear of hell, which isn’t a good motivation but it’s the truth.
I wish God didn’t make us, I don’t want billions of people to experience excruciating pain for all of eternity. If God knew this was the fate for most humans, why did he make us?
He made us and than made hell the punishment, knowing most humans would end up there.
I wish God woulp help me understand that.

I heard some people say that once in heaven we understand why anyone needs to go there and see sin for the crime it is, but what about the depression we get from it now? While we are alive? And I know Christ felt sad for people who were suffering, so why wouldn’t we feel pain for people suffering in hell?

I often feel like Christians who talk about hell don’t really think about it, just think about a person being on fire, you know how bad it hurts to burn your finger on a stove, you know you can’t even hold your finger there for 2 seconds, now imagine how painful and unbearable it is to be on fire. I think we humans are not able to imagine pain that well but If you burn your finger while imagining it you can get an idea. Even I get desensitized to the idea after a while.
Now imagine being on fire for 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years, all of that, and then you haven’t even gotten started, that’s not even 0,000000000000000000000001% of the time you’re there, its eternity, forever, it never ends, we can’t even start to imagine that.
And even if hell wasn’t being on fire forever, any place of suffering and torture for so long is unimaginable.

How am I supposed to live knowing that exists? That people I love may go there, that anyone may go there, that most humans will go there.
Why aren't Christians who believe that not desperately running around begging everyone to get saved, most Christians just live their normal life.

I’m crying out to God to help me but I’m only sinking deeper and deeper.
This is no way of living
How can I love God when I desperately don’t want him to be real. I don’t want it to be like this. I so badly hope that Christianity is actually not real but at the same time I want to believe and be saved.
Which is a impossible situation to be in.
Help please ):

You don't have to worry about the unforgiveable sin Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit - Unpardonable Sin
I think some of this is from a misunderstanding of hell.

Also, fire is often used metaphorically in the Bible.

Missjay · Jun 4, 2020

Not everyone will go to hell only the people who;
1.Refuse to accept christ. See John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

2.Live in sin: Roman's 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:1 KJV

See also John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

My advice:
If you see people who are still living in sin pray for them and preach the gospel of truth to them.

Read the bible a lot and dwell on the words of God. God is a patient, forgiving a d loving father

Pray more; pray for God to ease your heart from fear. We cannot continue to live in fear
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
2 Timothy 1:7
I will also pray with you.
To be a Christian is to be free in Christ, do not let the enemy into your heart through fear.

Carl Emerson · Jun 4, 2020

The problem is not Christianity - the problem is us, and the lies we believe.

Keep it simple - remember Jesus asked the little children to come to Him.

Be unto Him as a little child - get on your knees before Him and give Him your life.

Give Him permission to totally transform you.

In prayer hold out your hands and receive His love.

He will never leave you or forsake you.

Give Him all your burdens and questions.

Receive His Love

Receive Jesus...

I will pray for you.

SarahsKnight · Jun 4, 2020

curlycurl said:
If I see am message that someone died I can only worry about them being in hell, I can’t even grief. How can I live while thinking people are going to be tortured, imagining them screeching, screaming and crying out in pain forever.

Good news, curlycurl. You don't have to worry about loved ones burning alive in hell forever, because that is a false doctrine that has blackened the eye of our faith and unjustly maligned God before unbelievers for an unfortunate number of centuries, since Augustine and Tertullian. There is actually barely any Scripture that uses any language that so much as hints at eternal conscious torment in hell. And mounds of it that points to pretty much the exact opposite fate in Gehenna (hell) for unbelievers, if not outright uses the plain words: death, die, destruction, consumed, burned up, no life.

Look, I don't know if this is a good idea for me to bring up to you right now considering how weighed down your poor mind seems to have been as of late, but, you seem to be so worried about the God that you/we all are commanded to love and believe in also somehow being a God of sadism and endless suffering, that I cannot help but feel obliged to point this out, that the traditional doctrine of souls being inherently immortal and hell being a place of endless physical and/or mental torture is actually false and has little to zero basis in Scripture regardless of the mantras and cliches that you will hear from the pulpit in most churches.

Fear of eternal torment will not bring you closer to God with a holy or reverential fear. It only leads to terrible mental and emotional burdens upon His children that leads them to daily suffering and clearly unholy fear, such as what we've seen in you, in myself (once upon a time), and many others you have undoubtedly seen crying out for help in the forums section here that is dedicated to sufferers of OCD. .... Romans says the wages of sin is death - not eternal torment or "spiritual death". Jesus said in Matthew that we should fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna - not consciously torture or ruin the soul endlessly in Gehenna. And that's just the tip of the iceberg; there's tons more Scripture that uses plain wording in reference to the consequence for unbelief as being literal death and destruction, and none that says in any way that man has a soul that lives eternally no matter what, and only ONE verse (Revelation 20:10) that uses words clearly akin to eternal torment ... and even then it is only in reference to Satan, the beast, and the false prophet ... yet the calling the lake of fire the "second death" later on when it actually gets to mentioning the humans who will go there. Doesn't sound anything like eternal torture to me. Nor should it.

Please listen. Whenever you feel you might be ready, mentally and emotionally, look up the key words "conditional immortality" in the search function here at this site, and you should see many different threads on the debate between the Christians at CF such as myself who believe in conditional immortality as Biblically correct, and the Christians who still uphold the traditional view of inherently immortal souls and eternal torment. Read through them, ponder each argument that is presented, and perhaps you may arrive at a conclusion for yourself as to which view actually aligns with Scripture better, and not just which view is currently more popular in the churches.

SarahsKnight · Jun 4, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
The problem is not Christianity - the problem is us, and the lies we believe

Definitely true, and despite what I said in my previous post, we are all guilty of it, in one tenet of belief or another.

Job405 · Jun 4, 2020

SarahsKnight said:
Good news, curlycurl. You don't have to worry about loved ones burning alive in hell forever, because that is a false doctrine that has blackened the eye of our faith and unjustly maligned God before unbelievers for an unfortunate number of centuries, since Augustine and Tertullian. There is actually barely any Scripture that uses any language that so much as hints at eternal conscious torment in hell. And mounds of it that points to pretty much the exact opposite fate in Gehenna (hell) for unbelievers, if not outright uses the plain words: death, die, destruction, consumed, burned up, no life.

What about these verses? Also nowhere does it say that hell is temporary. It is always referred to as eternal and everlasting.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Mark 9:44-45 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Luke 16:23-24 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Hell is very real, and very eternal. Stop reading the NIV and get a real bible like the KJV. People need to know this and have a healthy fear of God. Fear of God is the beginning of knowledge.

I hope this will light a fire under your bum to go and preach the gospel. The stakes are high, people need to receive the gospel of salvation!

solid_core · Jun 4, 2020

curlycurl said:
*trigger warning* I’m going to talk about some pretty upsetting stuff so if you are mentally struggling and don’t need triggers, maybe don’t read this.

Hi everyone, I don’t want to be negative or disrespectful in this post, but want to know that I’m not the only one who feels this way, or if anyone who felt this way ever got over it.
In the last few years I’ve been in a constant state of believing and not believing.
And its miserable. I could really use some words of encouragement ):

The idea of Christianity is so hopeless to me.
If I see am message that someone died I can only worry about them being in hell, I can’t even grief. How can I live while thinking people are going to be tortured, imagining them screeching, screaming and crying out in pain forever.
I see a message about a natural disaster and I just think about how that country isn’t mostly Christian and I think about all the people, teenager and maybe even kids going to Hell.

When I wasn’t religious I could just grief for the life that was lost but now every person I see I am scared for their salvation, even if they are Christian, knowing that a lot of Christians aren’t saved either.
I see so many Christians become so much happier and complete when coming to God while I’m absolutely miserable, I’ve never been in such a low point in my whole life.

All I worry about is my salvation (if you haven’t read my other posts on here, I struggle allot with OCD and the fear of the unforgivable sin) And the salvation of the ones I love.
I was so much happier when I was not believing, because I knew that no matter how much suffering I or anyone else experienced, death was final, nothing, no pain, no suffering. And that was so freeing to me, I was totally fine with my life having no meaning and just be gone forever. It gave me happiness.
I could just live my life without constantly worrying about everything, about my every move, about my life choices, about other's live choices. And my OCD was so much less bad. I’m so terrified of going to hell.

I came to God in the first place because of fear of hell, which isn’t a good motivation but it’s the truth.
I wish God didn’t make us, I don’t want billions of people to experience excruciating pain for all of eternity. If God knew this was the fate for most humans, why did he make us?
He made us and than made hell the punishment, knowing most humans would end up there.
I wish God woulp help me understand that.

I heard some people say that once in heaven we understand why anyone needs to go there and see sin for the crime it is, but what about the depression we get from it now? While we are alive? And I know Christ felt sad for people who were suffering, so why wouldn’t we feel pain for people suffering in hell?

I often feel like Christians who talk about hell don’t really think about it, just think about a person being on fire, you know how bad it hurts to burn your finger on a stove, you know you can’t even hold your finger there for 2 seconds, now imagine how painful and unbearable it is to be on fire. I think we humans are not able to imagine pain that well but If you burn your finger while imagining it you can get an idea. Even I get desensitized to the idea after a while.
Now imagine being on fire for 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years, all of that, and then you haven’t even gotten started, that’s not even 0,000000000000000000000001% of the time you’re there, its eternity, forever, it never ends, we can’t even start to imagine that.
And even if hell wasn’t being on fire forever, any place of suffering and torture for so long is unimaginable.

How am I supposed to live knowing that exists? That people I love may go there, that anyone may go there, that most humans will go there.
Why aren't Christians who believe that not desperately running around begging everyone to get saved, most Christians just live their normal life.

I’m crying out to God to help me but I’m only sinking deeper and deeper.
This is no way of living
How can I love God when I desperately don’t want him to be real. I don’t want it to be like this. I so badly hope that Christianity is actually not real but at the same time I want to believe and be saved.
Which is a impossible situation to be in.
Help please ):

The fire is just a metaphor for judgement.

God is just and no child will be tortured in literal flames for eternity.

Job405 · Jun 4, 2020

solid_core said:
The fire is just a metaphor for judgement.

God is just and no child will be tortured in literal flames for eternity.

No it's not.

Luke 16:23-24 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

That said, babies and young children are innocent, so they will go to heaven.

solid_core · Jun 4, 2020

Job405 said:
No it's not.

Luke 16:23-24 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

That said, babies and young children are innocent, so they will go to heaven.

Its a metaphorical story.

1. there is no literal bossom of Abraham in the afterlife
2. its not on Abraham to give mercy in the afterlife
3. its hard to believe that people in "hell" and in paradise can communicate and see each other
4. poverty will not grant you heaven and being rich will not put you in hell

Therefore there is no substantial reason to take the flame literally, while the other things not.

Job405 · Jun 4, 2020

solid_core said:
Its a metaphorical story.

1. there is no literal bossom of Abraham in the afterlife
2. its not on Abraham to give mercy in the afterlife
3. its hard to believe that people in "hell" and in paradise can communicate and see each other
4. poverty will not grant you heaven and being rich will not put you in hell

Therefore there is no substantial reason to take the flame literally, while the other things not.

Abraham has a chest. Only God can give mercy, nowhere does it say that Abraham is giving mercy. The rich man is of course desperate, asking anyone he sees. Rich people are more likely to be prideful and arrogant, relying on their riches instead of on God. Poor people have less options in terms of wealth, so they rely more on God.

I generally tend to interpret the bible literally but to me these and other verses at the very least describe hell as a place of eternal torment, whether it be fire or some other form of torment. The stakes are high. This is why we need to help God spread the gospel and gather the lost sheep.

solid_core · Jun 4, 2020

Job405 said:
Only God can give mercy, nowhere does it say that Abraham is giving mercy.

"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me"

You are right, only God can give mercy. This story is not literal. If we take the story literally, we will make huge theological errors based on it. Practically nothing in this story is compatible with Christian theology.

Job405 · Jun 4, 2020

solid_core said:
"And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me"

You are right, only God can give mercy. This story is not literal. If we take the story literally, we will make huge theological errors based on it. Practically nothing in this story is compatible with Christian theology.

Literal or not, the Bible clearly says, in my opinion that hell is a place of eternal torment. Whether they are burning in flames or trapped in their own personal worst nightmare, makes little difference to me.

SarahsKnight · Jun 4, 2020

Job405 said:
Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Says nothing about the function of hell, whether it is literal death or eternal torment.

Job405 said:
Mark 9:44-45 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Says nothing about what happens to the person himself in hell. Only that the fire won't be stopped. Doesn't say that the fire will preserve the unbeliever in torment without actually consuming him.

And so on down the same explanation can be given for many of your remaining verses you try to offer as proof. They aren't. They are circumstantial.

Job405 said:
Luke 16:23-24 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Even if taken as a true story, it still doesn't say that the rich man was there forever being tormented. The rich man only said he was tormented (and very calmly so, seemingly, rather than screaming his head off incoherently; does no one find this odd if we're supposed to take this as a true story? And NO, that is not me calling Jesus a liar, so don't bother with the accusation if you are thinking it. Telling a story to teach a moral lesson is not lying), but guess what? Fire will cause pain as it is killing you. Nothing about him being there forever was said.

Job405 said:
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

It utterly baffles me that people try to twist this verse around to prove eternal torment despite Sodom and Gomorrah clearly having been utterly wiped out in Genesis instead of still burning and being preserved in fire, when Jude says what happened to them are set forth as an EXAMPLE. How could it be any plainer that what happens to the unbelievers is therefore the same thing as what happened to the two cities? Utterly destroyed, not burning alive forever.

If the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are now burning alive in some far off spiritual plane called hell somewhere, how can they serve as an example to warn the rest of us? Nobody can see them. Not all of us anyway. So for those few who may have near-death experience or dream visions of the traditional hell (and you are not about to convince me that the Holy Spirit - called THE COMFORTER in the Bible - is the One giving these sick demented visions to those folk, by the way), if they claimed to see the people of Sodom and Gomorrah burning alive in hell, are we just supposed to take their word for it as true? To set an example, I need to see it for myself.

This thread is not the time or place to argue about conditional immortality vs eternal torment. This is about trying to comfort and give hope to poor @curlycurl right now, who suffers like so many others including myself have on account of the doctrine of eternal torment. And you aren't about to convince me that the right and Godly thing to do in this situation is to forego any kind of compassion for a fellow human in order to defend a doctrine revolving around endless torture in the name of petty religious zealotry.

GaveMeJoy · Jun 4, 2020

DebbieJ said:
This is what I believe:

1) Only those who took the mark of the beast will burn alive in the lake of fire forever. This is a special punishment reserved only for people who has the mark.

2) Those who did not accept Christ will simply perish and not burn forever because hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire. If there is no hell, where would one go? They would simply poof out of existence.

3) When we die, we either go to hades/hell or paradise. Hades is just an unbearable hot place. After this, you'll be brought to life again to face the white throne judgment.

Those who have the mark of the beast will go to the lake of fire.
Those who did not make it in the book of life will simply poof out of existence.

When the day comes, you better not accept the mark even if you don't believe in Christ because you'll be in very scary situation with no remedy and forgiveness. Better for one to poof out of existence than to spend eternity in the lake of fire.

no.

GaveMeJoy · Jun 4, 2020

curlycurl said:
*trigger warning* I’m going to talk about some pretty upsetting stuff so if you are mentally struggling and don’t need triggers, maybe don’t read this.

Hi everyone, I don’t want to be negative or disrespectful in this post, but want to know that I’m not the only one who feels this way, or if anyone who felt this way ever got over it.
In the last few years I’ve been in a constant state of believing and not believing.
And its miserable. I could really use some words of encouragement ):

The idea of Christianity is so hopeless to me.
If I see am message that someone died I can only worry about them being in hell, I can’t even grief. How can I live while thinking people are going to be tortured, imagining them screeching, screaming and crying out in pain forever.
I see a message about a natural disaster and I just think about how that country isn’t mostly Christian and I think about all the people, teenager and maybe even kids going to Hell.

When I wasn’t religious I could just grief for the life that was lost but now every person I see I am scared for their salvation, even if they are Christian, knowing that a lot of Christians aren’t saved either.
I see so many Christians become so much happier and complete when coming to God while I’m absolutely miserable, I’ve never been in such a low point in my whole life.

All I worry about is my salvation (if you haven’t read my other posts on here, I struggle allot with OCD and the fear of the unforgivable sin) And the salvation of the ones I love.
I was so much happier when I was not believing, because I knew that no matter how much suffering I or anyone else experienced, death was final, nothing, no pain, no suffering. And that was so freeing to me, I was totally fine with my life having no meaning and just be gone forever. It gave me happiness.
I could just live my life without constantly worrying about everything, about my every move, about my life choices, about other's live choices. And my OCD was so much less bad. I’m so terrified of going to hell.

I came to God in the first place because of fear of hell, which isn’t a good motivation but it’s the truth.
I wish God didn’t make us, I don’t want billions of people to experience excruciating pain for all of eternity. If God knew this was the fate for most humans, why did he make us?
He made us and than made hell the punishment, knowing most humans would end up there.
I wish God woulp help me understand that.

I heard some people say that once in heaven we understand why anyone needs to go there and see sin for the crime it is, but what about the depression we get from it now? While we are alive? And I know Christ felt sad for people who were suffering, so why wouldn’t we feel pain for people suffering in hell?

I often feel like Christians who talk about hell don’t really think about it, just think about a person being on fire, you know how bad it hurts to burn your finger on a stove, you know you can’t even hold your finger there for 2 seconds, now imagine how painful and unbearable it is to be on fire. I think we humans are not able to imagine pain that well but If you burn your finger while imagining it you can get an idea. Even I get desensitized to the idea after a while.
Now imagine being on fire for 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years, all of that, and then you haven’t even gotten started, that’s not even 0,000000000000000000000001% of the time you’re there, its eternity, forever, it never ends, we can’t even start to imagine that.
And even if hell wasn’t being on fire forever, any place of suffering and torture for so long is unimaginable.

How am I supposed to live knowing that exists? That people I love may go there, that anyone may go there, that most humans will go there.
Why aren't Christians who believe that not desperately running around begging everyone to get saved, most Christians just live their normal life.

I’m crying out to God to help me but I’m only sinking deeper and deeper.
This is no way of living
How can I love God when I desperately don’t want him to be real. I don’t want it to be like this. I so badly hope that Christianity is actually not real but at the same time I want to believe and be saved.
Which is a impossible situation to be in.
Help please ):

honestly bro (or sis) this freaked me out a little. We definitely don't think about hell enough as Christians. I hope I don't go there either.

God is sovereign, so we either getting in or not. So you worrying about it isn't gonna help or change things, so I say pray for peace and do your best.

covergirl · Jun 6, 2020

Hey curly sue! I understand your frustrations and I can tell you where it comes from. You have the gift of evangelism. Thats why you struggle so much with your own salvation but also with others you don't even know. God gave you a heart for that however that's not to say He made you depressed or anxious it's spiritual warfare. The Devil will at times come after where our hearts lie. My struggles are with pleasing God even though I know He is already well pleased and we can struggle with works but continue to stand in your faith . What your going through is normal and your saved. John 4 you have everlasting life. Religion will bind us with works thats why Jesus always had to address Pharisees and Sadducees who believed in God. Salvation is a God thing we can't force anyone to be saved. Guilt and shame will try to creep in your thoughts of why you aren't doing more to help them. Guilt and shame aren't God

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