We are all in agreement, now what?

charsan said:

I am not sure we are in agreement except the the man's death was tragic. The mob killed a blank police officer last night yet, no protest, and not even much talk about it on here. Does David Dorn matter who was the police officer killed last night? They (BLM) want this and that, well I want to stop being labeled a bad person all the time from the media and organizations like BLM just because I am white, I want them to stop telling me I am bad because I am a conservative and support our President. If they (BLM) want change then they must change too not just one side.

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Wow just read article about him, thank you for sharing. God be with his family and friends.

charsan said:

I am not sure we are in agreement except the the man's death was tragic. The mob killed a blank police officer last night yet, no protest, and not even much talk about it on here. Does David Dorn matter who was the police officer killed last night? They (BLM) want this and that, well I want to stop being labeled a bad person all the time from the media and organizations like BLM just because I am white, I want them to stop telling me I am bad because I am a conservative and support our President. If they (BLM) want change then they must change too not just one side.

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I agree there are atrocities being committed on both sides. In my area they just announced that an arrest was made concerning the overturning of police car and it being set on fire. I hope more appropriate arrests are coming with the multitude of video available.

Some concrete policy recommendations here: 8 Can't Wait

jacks said:

Black Lives Matter said the following:
“They want to see the arrest of all the officers involved [in the murder of George Floyd]. They want to have no more terror, no more police terror in their communities,” Cullors said. “Everybody wants to be apologized to. Everybody wants to be told, ‘I'm sorry. What I did was wrong. It was unacceptable. We won't do it again and, in fact, this is how we change.’”

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This is simply not what I see (for a lot of them, I am sure it's true for the few though), the protest was done far too quickly and got WAY out of hand just as swiftly. They didn't even wait for the trial ( I can understand it however, but not to the point it got) and they should have. If the officer doesn't get convicted, then there should be an uprising of protest because it's ridiculous how some cops get away with murder.

If we want change then it starts with having a sound mind - in every single person. We need to come together instead of going after businesses and others that had NOTHING to do with the event. A child was trapped in a burning home for crying out loud! The protestors stood in the way of the firefighters... I sure hope the child was saved....

But there it is. It starts with a sound mind and not allowing emotions to rule over you (general "you").

jacks said:

I think the vast majority of people agree with the premise of the George Flyod protests and what happened to him was wrong. So what is the next step? Specifically what would the protesters (and others) like to see happen? It would be interesting to hear specific ideas and not vague calls for reform and change.

Black Lives Matter said the following:
“They want to see the arrest of all the officers involved [in the murder of George Floyd]. They want to have no more terror, no more police terror in their communities,” Cullors said. “Everybody wants to be apologized to. Everybody wants to be told, ‘I'm sorry. What I did was wrong. It was unacceptable. We won't do it again and, in fact, this is how we change.’”

I think this is the overall goal, but exactly how do we get there? If you could make some changes what would they be and why do you think they would work?

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Good Question..

Whatever it is.. .you'll never find out... That would mean that they would have to stop burning things, rioting, and stealing things from other people... cause that will fix everything.

ReesePiece23 said:

Overthrow the government and replace it with Utopian communism...

I guess a more realistic answer is education. I think schools in America should prioritise African American history (if they aren't already?) and force police officers and civil servants to sit exams to prove that they have read and understood the meaning of the term "equal rights for all".

Education, education and more education. But done right.

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The problem here is that there is no evidence the guy's killing had anything to do with race.

I agree with you though that the schools are failing us. We need to implement school choice and vouchers so that parents and students can decide what "done right"means to them, not the teacher's unions

For starters.
These bad cops are going to set in place
a firm example for other police.
Do wrong
get caught
go to prison for a very, very long time.

Body cameras should be worn by all cops.
Turn it on durning every encounter
or you are fired.

M

jacks said:

I just saw where in Seattle some protesters are asking to defund the Seattle Police Department. And to not prosecute any protesters arrested over the last five days.

"Protesters marching through downtown Seattle are calling for the defunding of the Seattle Police Department".

I think they would be better off reading some of the suggestions in this thread. Doing away with the police altogether is a bit over the top!

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That is the direction I was heading. Maybe cut the police force by 30% and let the smaller stuff slide. Quit with so many arrests, just give out tickets and expect them to show up in court. That would lower the conflict level. I also think there should be a new type of Miranda warning. Start it off with: You have the right to be given medical attention. Do you need it now? This would not solve racism, but it would help keep things far more civil in the interaction between cops and criminals.

jacks said:

I think the vast majority of people agree with the premise of the George Flyod protests and what happened to him was wrong. So what is the next step? Specifically what would the protesters (and others) like to see happen? It would be interesting to hear specific ideas and not vague calls for reform and change.

Black Lives Matter said the following:
“They want to see the arrest of all the officers involved [in the murder of George Floyd]. They want to have no more terror, no more police terror in their communities,” Cullors said. “Everybody wants to be apologized to. Everybody wants to be told, ‘I'm sorry. What I did was wrong. It was unacceptable. We won't do it again and, in fact, this is how we change.’”

I think this is the overall goal, but exactly how do we get there? If you could make some changes what would they be and why do you think they would work?

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Thank you for addressing this issue from this angle.

Masses of letters and petitions should be sent to elected leaders telling them that police internal affairs need to step up to the plate and deal with brutality cases.

More training? Absolutely. But how do you train a sociopath like the Chauvins in police departments around the country?

Don't the Internal Afffairs departments have access to each police officer's files? Can't each IA department go through each file and determine who has 2 or more brutality cases against unarmed citizens and terminate those officers with trained new replacements?

Isn't that how it's done with large corporations? HR departments of many companies do it all the time. They look at employees' files - past performances, financial losses, conduct issues, etc - and they do mass layoffs/terminations. Quite often. In order to save lives, the same should be expected and addressed to city/state leaders.

And when employees are terminated, some are not eligible to receive benefits like upcoming bonuses or payouts of their time off not taken. Officers are being placed on paid leave for bad conduct. That addresses the problem I've always had with school districts. They send misbehaving kids on vacation for poor behavior instead of assigning operation sparkle duty cleaning the cafeteria and having privileges taken away. How is there any effective accountability system if nobody foresees any impactful consequences should they mess up?

Yarddog said:

We'll never make a change until we learn how to listen and understand it is us that need to change. As long as we expect others to change for us, we won't get anywhere.

As Christians, we hope for God's Spirit to change us from within but we cannot expect God to change those without his Spirit. But, they can change but we cannot force our beliefs on then but we can show God's love to them.

We can start by listening. We cannot understand what others have gone through without going through it but we can listen.

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The causes of racism are pride and fear. Pride says that one race is better. Fear imagines that the other race(s) want to drag the "better" race down to their level. Unless and until people realise that no race is any better than another, racism will continue. Racism is entrenched in every society. Multiculturalism reinforces racism, not helps. Australia has one of the most tolerant societies on earth, but it is far from perfect. You think the USA is racist? Check out India, Japan, Sri Lanka, Africa - any society where there is more than one race.

Christians should be the exception, of course. Most Christians know that we were created in God's image. Yet many Christians want to isolate themselves in exclusive churches also. If it is hard for Christians, how can we expect the world to change?

I think "matters" have no say in this at all. I found out today two things...awful things that are no where in the news. Some are talking about it. What happen.. was worse then what happen to Floyd. So as long as some Media stays willingly blind.

Any time any life is taken.. we can't put a value on any life. Every one matters. I know and am part of a people that NEVER gets talked about. Praise God! If you look back at what use to happen vs how things are today? Oh.. it is getting so much better. I hurt for some people.. I hurt for the police. On both sides.. there are far greater better people. We take a stand and PRAY! We are the LIGHT of this world!

How can we not see. When Christ talked about a LIGHT in you.. to not hide it.. its REAL! Where you go... what you do.. people around you feel different.. something in YOU they want. JESUS CHRIST YESHUA.. GOD the GREAT I AM! Oh the HOLY SPIRIT! Are REAL!

YOU are the light.. YOU are the answer. We hide.... we are the example. HAHA I am quoting a song for the 2nd time.. a song I yeah.. don't care for. Yet praise GOD its so true. It just came to mind. In the song.. hes getting mad at God.. WHY don't you do something? God? Looks at you.. HUGE smile.. I did. I GAVE THEM YOU! Your here for a reason. Your where you are for a reason. Its no mistake. You may not see it.. did you know a silly smile...can turn ONE persons awful world up side down? A simple hug.. helping someone.. giving anything.. or everything. This is not your home. You have riches beyond your dreams. He your Father has so much in store for you.. you can not even imagine.

When we confess our sins.. and then KNOW He forgives you. You ask HIM to go before you.. in every area of your life. I've seen wonders.. we just need to believe.. that He already did started something.. before you even asked Him. But.. we HAVE to believe. You have oh.. friends you can't see that FIGHT for you with you. Countless number of them. Your never alone. Be that light.. JESUS is very real.

Its when you trust Him.... you can't see feel hear...just like closing your eyes.. and go...trust HIM! No matter what you see hear or feel..WOW.. I REALLY like what I said... WHY do you think your still here? He needs no one.. but He chooses to use you..... your a child of GOD! you have more CLOUT then you know..

I think there are several things

* We need a consensus on how to hold police accountable. They have to make decisions with mixed evidence in short times. Mistakes will happen. But there needs to be a way to hold people accountable when they disregard life. There are many barriers, all of which have legitimate points

* Police unions. They are right to want to protect members from politicized situations and cases where someone made a mistake that’s tragic but not criminal. But there has to be a limit. Currently in some places there isn’t.

* Juries. It’s very hard to get a jury to convict, for good reason. Again, we need an understanding of what is a tragedy and what is criminal. Judges need to be able to give them clear advice.

* The Supreme Count. The current doctrine of limited immunity in practice means it’s almost possible for a conviction to stand.

But much of the effort needs to go in other areas. Yes, there are bad police. But when there are widespread problems it’s a sign of systematic problems. The main reaction shouldn’t be prosecuting police. Again, there need to be clear standards, publicly stated. That means review of use of force policy, training and supervision. I would think most of the action should occur here, not in prosecution.

Several areas have announced projects to do this. The NJ governor described several yesterday that were already under way, including improvements in recruitment, training, and policy, as well as licensing of police. (Many states license now, but NJ doesn't.)

It's a great question and a great topic.
I wish I had answers.

I tend to think that the issue is there are no community cops any more. Cops are shielded behind their vehicles and armor and the only time a young black man interacts with police is in a negative way -either someone they know or themselves are being arrested, killed or notified of such.
What I'm trying to suggest is we need more of the first image and less of the second in this illustration:

The militarization of police that you refer to has been encouraged by Federal policy. Militarization of police - Wikipedia, and How Congress Helped Create Ferguson's Militarized Police There have been a number of concerns about the impact. The Senate is moving to change. Congress pushes back on program that transfers military equipment to police. I assume the House would agree.

The Obama administration moved to limit transfer of military equipment to police. Sessions lifted the limits.

hedrick said:

The militarization of police that you refer to has been encouraged by Federal policy. Militarization of police - Wikipedia, and How Congress Helped Create Ferguson's Militarized Police There have been a number of concerns about the impact. The Senate is moving to change. Congress pushes back on program that transfers military equipment to police. I assume the House would agree.

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Yes, and I agree.
I think it's deeper than that.
Who is the policeman on duty in my neighborhood?

I have no clue. A car with tinted windows shows up if/when there's an altercation. Otherwise, there's no presence and certainly no faces are ever seen.

FenderTL5 said:

It's a great question and a great topic.
I wish I had answers.

I tend to think that the issue is there are no community cops any more. Cops are shielded behind their vehicles and armor and the only time a young black man interacts with police is in a negative way -either someone they know or themselves are being arrested, killed or notified of such.
What I'm trying to suggest is we need more of the first image and less of the second in this illustration:
View attachment 278254

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I appreciate the sentiment being depicted but for the child on the right historically his reality and by extension his reaction would be the same in either scenario depicted.

hedrick said:

The militarization of police that you refer to has been encouraged by Federal policy. Militarization of police - Wikipedia, and How Congress Helped Create Ferguson's Militarized Police There have been a number of concerns about the impact. The Senate is moving to change. Congress pushes back on program that transfers military equipment to police. I assume the House would agree.

The Obama administration moved to limit transfer of military equipment to police. Sessions lifted the limits.

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The police have to militarize. There are terrorists with same equipment in our country. You expect them to defend you with a pistol?
The Terrorist Threat Confronting the United States

Cbowles said:

The police have to militarize. There are terrorists with same equipment in our country. You expect them to defend you with a pistol?
The Terrorist Threat Confronting the United States

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Some departments may need to have that capability. The question is how many need to be involved. Confronting major terrorist threats is typically the job of the FBI. I don't expect my local police department to show up with tanks to defend the Twin Towers.

hedrick said:

Some departments may need to have that capability. The question is how many need to be involved. Confronting major terrorist threats is typically the job of the FBI. I dont expect my local police department to show up with tanks to defend the Twin Towers.

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I don't think you understand the feds usually don't come in til, the police have a situation. Unless of course their investigating something.