On Versions of the Bible

Pescador, actually you proved my point that translation is just as much art as it is linguistics. It's reading what earlier commentators had to say about the meaning not just of the words but of the context.

Btw, I have a bachelor's degree in religion, a partial master of divinity degree, and I've served as a Greek Orthodox chanter for eighteen years. I'm also a former Lutheran elder, comparable to a deacon. I've done a little reading over the years.

pescador said:

An interlinear is not a reliable way to "translate" the Bible. Translation is much more difficult and complex than that. There is never a one-to-one word correspondence between the ancient languages and English. Idioms, for example, are very different, and I'm not speaking out of both sides of my mouth or blowing hot air.

A formal equivalence translation tries as much as possible to be word-for-word, while a functional equivalence translation tries as much as possible to be thought-for-thought. We live so differently than those people of biblical times -- thousands of years -- that a functional translation is much more real to our way of thinking than a formal translation.

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No, but an interlinear is a reasonable way to judge how close to word for word a transalation is a reasonable way to see how close to word for word a transalation is

hedrick said:

No, but an interlinear is a reasonable way to judge how close to word for word a transalation is a reasonable way to see how close to word for word a transalation is

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That is over simplifying the art of translation. Word-for-word means almost nothing in terms of rendering the Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek words into English. Are you unaware of the differences that a word can mean in context? "judge" can mean a person presiding over a court, or forming an opinion or conclusion about; "translation" can mean either translating words or text from one language to another or the process of moving something from one place to another; "Mean"; doesn't that mean cruel or angry? Or does it mean average? "unaware" can mean asleep, unconscious, "spaced out", etc.

Word for word translation from one very dissimilar language to another is meaningless unless it's in context.

I definitely use my own version. I call it the RHEV 3.0
No It is not available on Amazon, It is a personal version.

RickardoHolmes said:

I definitely use my own version. I call it the RHEV 3.0
No It is not available on Amazon, It is a personal version.

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When/where/how did you create your own version?

pescador said:

When/where/how did you create your own version?

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Over the decades, having spoken with so many seekers, followers, teachers and thinkers, and reading so many different writings, more than I can list here, I began to set out to edit the Bible to form a "new and Improved" version. I soon realized that the approach I was taking was not correct. The Bible, canonized and recorded (listed) through antiquity, including the Council of Rome in 382 Which canonized and listed a source for early Christians. Through the years however, much has changed, and socio-cultural evolution has led us to realize several things
1 "God" did not write the Bible. It was written by humans, some known, some unknown (author unknown) and assembled for political reasons.
2 It is NOT the "Word of God" While some parts of it were inspired by God, others clearly were not.
3 It is not about God; it is about human understanding of God, a roadmap that points towards God

Like many in the world, I believed that the Bible needed to be updated, as much of the social-cultural references and settings of the first century and the years proceeding it could no be affectively set in the modern, ever changing world. I know we live in a world where our knowledge and insights to everything change and progress forward, even our understanding of that which we call "God" I decided that it would be time for people to have an updated collection (Bible means "a collection of books or writings" ) that reflect our life now.

My purpose and goal was not to diminish the God experience, but to enhance it; to reflect newer experiences and inspired writings, while removing those which are no longer of importance in my Spiritual life now. My goal was not to discredit some canonized book , in universum, but to enhance it, to improve it and to provide a new and updated road map.

I once explained to someone that if you want to go cross country in a car, you will need a road map. If you have one that your grandpa gave you form the 1950's well it is outdated. You will find a newer and better map this year.

I had thought of writing this out and publishing it, but I realized that in order for one to have a true, mystical experience with God, then one has to discover and work on his or her own. I cannot give someone the answers, and even then, my experiences and my spiritual enlightenment is unique to myself and my relationship with God.

So, I wrote and assembled a number of writings, including a few letters of my own, and put together my version of the Bible, a Bible for me and anyone who desires to learn from it. However, as I discover new and better information, things that someone writes which are useful and enlightening, I reserve the right to add to it.

I also failed to mention that another reason for my works was because too often, people in contemporary times still feel compelled to use the Bible as a basis for violating the rights and lives of others. Some people still use it to condone their hatred, for racism, xenophobia and discrimination. by removing certain parts of it, we can bring about a more loving and enlightened community of believers.

RickardoHolmes said:

I also failed to mention that another reason for my works was because too often, people in contemporary times still feel compelled to use the Bible as a basis for violating the rights and lives of others. Some people still use it to condone their hatred, for racism, xenophobia and discrimination. by removing certain parts of it, we can bring about a more loving and enlightened community of believers.

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So you're saying that you removed the parts of the Bible that you don't like?

I removed many parts that are not useful, pertinent or beneficial to our 21st century. I also added a few more books, more recent, including some writings by St Francis of Assisi and a short pastoral sermon by St Pope John Paul 2.

RickardoHolmes said:

I definitely use my own version. I call it the RHEV 3.0

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Do you have it, or the index, online?

Not really, it is more for personal use. I omitted Much of Paul's writings, (I am not a Pauline) I removed Revelations as well. I took out all of Leviticus and many of the Old Testament writings, but I left the more poetic ones such as the Psalms and the Proverbs, mostly intact. I added a few writings by St Francis of Assisi and a sermon By Pope (ST) John Paul 2

RickardoHolmes said:

Not really, it is more for personal use. I omitted Much of Paul's writings, (I am not a Pauline) I removed Revelations as well. I took out all of Leviticus and many of the Old Testament writings, but I left the more poetic ones such as the Psalms and the Proverbs, mostly intact. I added a few writings by St Francis of Assisi and a sermon By Pope (ST) John Paul 2

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Personally, I wouldn't remove anything from the bible. But adding writings by St Francis of Assisi and a sermon By Pope (ST) John Paul 2 are fine to me. Can you quote their websites?

Andrewn said:

Personally, I wouldn't remove anything from the bible. But adding writings by St Francis of Assisi and a sermon By Pope (ST) John Paul 2 are fine to me. Can you quote their websites?

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Yes
12 March 2000, Day for pardon | John Paul II

Homilies | John Paul II

The Writings of St. Francis

OP - Use the KJV, too.

TPT - encourage you to use it. They used the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic documents. Details at thepassiontranslation.com/faqs/

RickardoHolmes said:

Yes
12 March 2000, Day for pardon | John Paul II

Homilies | John Paul II

The Writings of St. Francis

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Thank you.

hedrick said:

No, but an interlinear is a reasonable way to judge how close to word for word a transalation is a reasonable way to see how close to word for word a transalation is

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I am not sure that you meant to post duplicate words in the same post but I think I understand you..

There is no such thing as an accurate word-for-word translation. Words can have several different meanings in context, the grammatical structure is different, and there are idioms that simply don't mean anything out of context.

For example, in English, "it's raining cats and dogs", translated literally (word-for-word), is something nobody but a native would understand.

All translation, including Bibles, is best left to the experts, capiche? Do you get my drift?

pescador said:

I am not sure that you meant to post duplicate words in the same post but I think I understand you..

There is no such thing as an accurate word-for-word translation. Words can have several different meanings in context, the grammatical structure is different, and there are idioms that simply don't mean anything out of context.

For example, in English, "it's raining cats and dogs", translated literally (word-for-word), is something nobody but a native would understand.

All translation, including Bibles, is best left to the experts, capiche? Do you get my drift?

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Maybe, but a translation is limited by having to use a few words. While you can translate one word as two, you can't increase the size of the text by an order of magnitude by giving a detailed explanation for each word. For that reason it's sometimes useful to look at a lexicon to see more nuances of a key word. I use the Logos program. It lets you click to get an interlinear, and then click on a word to go to a couple of lexicons for a word. I also use commentaries, which gives similar information. The advantage of a commentary is that the authors know about as much as the translators. It often tells you where several translations are possible, and what the arguments are. The footnotes in the NET Bible also do this.

RickardoHolmes said:

I removed many parts that are not useful, pertinent or beneficial to our 21st century. I also added a few more books, more recent, including some writings by St Francis of Assisi and a short pastoral sermon by St Pope John Paul 2.

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[Deu 4:2 KJV] 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

[Pro 30:5-6 KJV] 5 Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

BibleBeliever5 said:

[Deu 4:2 KJV] 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

[Pro 30:5-6 KJV] 5 Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

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Interesting....Those are not in MY Version

BibleBeliever5 said:

[Deu 4:2 KJV] 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

[Pro 30:5-6 KJV] 5 Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

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Deuteronomy 4:1-2, "Now, Israel, pay attention to the statutes and ordinances I am about to teach you, so that you might live and go on to enter and take possession of the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you. Do not add a thing to what I command you nor subtract from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I am delivering to you." Notice that there is a condition: "so that you might live and go on to enter and take possession of the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you". Without taking the first verse into account the specific condition is lost.

Proverbs 30:1-6, "The words of Agur, the son of Jakeh; an oracle:
This man says to Ithiel, to Ithiel and to Ukal:
Surely I am more brutish than any other human being,
and I do not have human understanding;
I have not learned wisdom,
nor can I have knowledge of the Holy One.
Who has ascended into heaven, and then descended?
Who has gathered up the winds in his fists?
Who has bound up the waters in his cloak?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his son’s name? Surely you can know!
Every word of God is purified;
he is like a shield for those who take refuge in him.
Do not add to his words,
lest he reprove you, and prove you to be a liar."

In context your quotes mean something different than what you mean in your post.