Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!

Phil W

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Paul told the congregation to welcome him back. That he suffered enough.

I have a feeling that you can be quite unfeeling by the way you keep missing crux of things.
And I can only assume they did, but whose to know if he ever came back.
Those who choose to serve sin hate my Savior.
Were they to turn from sin, I would welcome them with open arms.
 
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Phil W

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If the man Believed that Jesus died for his sins and rose from the grave, he was saved.Period. That is a Promise from God.
Repentance is “ the change of mind” that takes you from NOT believing the Gospel to a person that BELIEVES the Gospel, thus becoming a Member Of The Body Of Christ,hence covered by Grace.....Grace is what cover sins until we make it “Home”
Too many confused “believers” try to supplant God’s Way Of Salvation— Grace Plus Nothing — with Repentance . It won’t work......it sounds good but it’s a False Gospel.An Accursed one...
The sin showed He didn't believe.
He chose to serve a lesser master.
That is idolatry, and no idolaters will have eternal life. (1 Cor 6:9)
 
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Religiot

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What would have happened had you had a sudden heart-attack and failed to repent before you died?
I don't mean repentance, as in turning from practicing sin to obedience to God, I mean repentance from my present unrighteous anger to peace and calmness in Christ.

My salvation doesn't hinge on whether or not I've remembered to repent, it hinges solely on my faith towards God.
 
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GenemZ

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If the man Believed that Jesus died for his sins and rose from the grave, he was saved.Period. That is a Promise from God.
Repentance is “ the change of mind” that takes you from NOT believing the Gospel to a person that BELIEVES the Gospel, thus becoming a Member Of The Body Of Christ,hence covered by Grace.....Grace is what cover sins until we make it “Home”
Too many confused “believers” try to supplant God’s Way Of Salvation— Grace Plus Nothing — with Repentance . It won’t work......it sounds good but it’s a False Gospel.An Accursed one...

Its out of ignorance, because no one good is teaching them...

Repentance (you are correct) meant to the ancients to simply have a change of heart. To have a change in one's thinking about a matter. In other words? To admit they were wrong about something and change their attitude towards that thing. Today we see political correctness trying to pressure and induce repentance about a matter if you do not agree.


There are believers who supplant God's way of salvation because they keep interjecting their own way of thinking/feeling into the context. Like with - "If I were God? And, I had to suffer and die for their sins? I would feel mighty p_ssed if some believer did that wrong! How dare they say they believed! "

They literally turn Jesus into a self righteous prissy.

That's what it amounts to.

They have yet to see and understand the heart of God. If they did? It would have their minds transformed.
 
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GenemZ

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The sin showed He didn't believe.
He chose to serve a lesser master.
That is idolatry, and no idolaters will have eternal life. (1 Cor 6:9)

So when Peter denied Jesus three times? That means he never believed?

When Jesus a short time before Peter denied him had told Peter...

But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was
not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in
heaven." Mat 16:15-17

Peter was saved. But, later he denied Jesus three times.

Jesus even rebuked Peter at one point by calling him Satan.

Peter was saved, and yet sinned against the Lord several times.

Why will we see these problems after one is saved? God saves many dumb butts. (1 Corinthians 1:26-27)

He then needs to work into them wisdom by grace.

That is.. If they will let Him.

For that requires a lot of repentance to get them there! :angel:
 
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Religiot

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The sexualy immoral man in the Corinthian church was not saved during the time of his sexual immorality.

Keep reading.

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).​

I remember talking to a believer on another Christian forum before who was so desperate to not see what this was passage saying that he said that “inherit the kingdom of God” is in reference to recruiting Christians. Utter ridiculousness. That is the lengths folks will go to not see the truth of the plain Word of God here. “Inherit the Kingdom of God” is related to entering God's Kingdom.

33 “And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world
(Matthew 25:33-34).​

Matthew 25:33-39 is dealing with the sheep who enter God's Kingdom.
Matthew 25:40-46 is dealing with the goats who shall go away into everlasting punishment.

So “inherit the kingdom” is dealing with salvation.
So Paul is warning that those individuals who do the sins listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 will not be saved or inherit the Kingdom of God.
It's true, that those who want to turn the grace of God into a license to sin, will become ridiculous in their twisting of scripture, to the point that they start to directly contradict the very gospel, and ultimately end-up denying Jesus Christ (Yehoshua Messiah), as their Lord.

When this is truly flushed out, you are always left with just two kinds of people, those who do the will of God, and those who do not.
 
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The Lord shed blood in sacrifice (the animal skins provided to cover Adam and Eve).
In Adam's mind he instantly repented after knowing he did wrong. The Lord quickly provided the blood needed to cover for their sins, and skins to cover their bodies.

Eve had no concept of being saved. Up until her deception no one needed to be saved. The Bible says she was deceived. She could not understand what was going on. The Bible says it was Ada who knew what he was doing. Adam sinned knowingly.

Adam and Eve needed to accept this sacrifice, and it did not also undo the Fall of mankind, either (Which was a result of Adam's sin).

You are also missing the main point. The devil was seeking to destroy Adam & Eve. He said that they would not die if they ate of the tree.

Eve first said to the serpent,
“But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”
(Genesis 3:3).​

So she was aware of what would happen to her if she disobeyed God. She knew that she would die. The serpent was selling her on the lie that they would not die if they disobeyed God's command.

And the
serpent said unto the woman,
“Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened,
and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
(Genesis 3:4-5).​

This is the same lie that the devil is trying to push in churches today. “Ye shall not surely die” as in reference to disobeying God's commands. You want me to believe that the devil has changed his tactics. He hasn't. He is still trying to convince even believers today that they can disobey God and not die.

God said to Adam,
“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
(Genesis 2:17).
God said that Adam would die the day he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Did Adam instantly drop dead when he ate of the wrong tree? No. Did he lose his immortality? No. He was kept away from the tree that would have given him immortality. So Adam died spiritually the day he ate of the wrong tree. This means we need to be reconciled with God if we disobey God. This proves that sin can destroy a person who was once in a right and good relationship with God. But of course, you just don't want to see that truth in the Bible.

Take for example Cain. Why did God reason with Cain to do good? Cain was not an atheist. Cain talked with God. Yet, Cain was said to be of the wicked one (See: 1 John 3:12).

The apostle John tells us,
“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”
(1 John 3:15).
John says that whoever hates his brother is a murderer and you all know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So it was Cain's sinful actions in hating his brother that was a result of him not having eternal life. God even tried to reason with Cain so as not to sin, too (See: Genesis 4:6-7). Why would God bother to reason with Cain if he was reprobate and unable to come to the truth?

Unsaved? You confuse our eternal salvation by belief in Christ. And, our salvation from evil in the world if we walk according to God's Word. Two different types of salvation you blur.

There are two different types of salvation in your belief?
If so, what are they?
I believe there are two aspects of salvation.

1. We are saved by God's grace, and
2. We are saved by Sanctification (after we are saved by God's grace).

Obedience to God after you are saved by faith in Christ is not the same thing as securing salvation by the obedience required by God after being saved. Believers who rebel will die the sin onto death. But, God does not bother with the unbelievers who are always in rebellion.

I have no idea what you mean by this. Do you believe a Christian can go from a saved state and then later fall away and die spiritually and be condemned?

You said:
Learn what the Word teaches and you can avoid getting in line with them in your own way. For Jesus said the road to destruction is 'broad and wide.' For there are many ways believers reject doing God's will for their lives. One of the worst is the legalism of thinking you can work to keep your salvation. Jesus did that work on the Cross. He does not need our two cents.

Not true. Most churches today teach that you can sin and still be saved. So I am not sure how you believe that OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) or Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief (A belief generally held by Free Will Baptists) is the narrow way (if that is what you are implying is the narrow way).

As for legalism:

There is good legalism and bad legalism. Bad legalism is a person making up their own laws or rules that God did not make. Bad legalism would be a plan of salvation that eliminates God's grace (Note: In my experience, the “Church of Christ” appears to do this because there is no invites to accept Christ or to seek forgiveness with Him during the service). Good legalism is John 14:15.

Jesus said,
“If ye love me, keep my commandments.”
(John 14:15).
How or why you think this is bad is beyond me. To say that legalism is bad is not to accept or understand the plain words of Jesus in John 14:15. Even to believe on the name of Jesus is a commandment or Law (See: 1 John 3:23). Granted, we are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a package deal, but we are under the laws or commands that come from Jesus and His followers within the New Covenant (New Testament).

Note: Most churches who are into legalism (that de-emphasize or eliminate God's grace) are in the minority and not the majority. For holiness churches are not as common these days. So they are not the wide gate popular belief. Easy believism and or justifying sin by having a belief alone on Jesus is the popular belief in churches today. Jesus said narrow is the way. Where does that leave your belief?
 
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Keep reading the context found. Then see if you can conclude the same.

I know the context just fine. I do not believe you are reading the context. We both cannot be right. So in order for you to show that you are correct, then quote the context that proves your case. If not, you are just saying you are correct with no Scriptural proof.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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It's true, that those who want to turn the grace of God into a license to sin, will become ridiculous in their twisting of scripture, to the point that they start to directly contradict the very gospel, and ultimately end-up denying Jesus Christ (Yehoshua Messiah), as their Lord.

When this is truly flushed out, you are always left with just two kinds of people, those who do the will of God, and those who do not.

.....and what is the “ will of God?.........God’s will is for us to “Believe in the One that He sent”
 
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.....and what is the “ will of God?.........God’s will is for us to “Believe in the One that He sent”

1 Thessalonians 4:3 says, “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:”

Hebrews 12:14 says,
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”

Is a believer following after peace with all men?
Is a believer following after holiness?
If not, then according to Hebrews 12:14, they will not see the Lord.

God has chosen us to salvation by two things.

#1. Belief of the truth.
#2. Sanctification of the Spirit.

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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After the Cross, the ascended Christ left us with only Two Commandments— “Believe and Love”........

“ Love God and live as you please”
What about Obedience, you ask? LOVE is the ENGINE that drives Obedience ....Jesus knew that....Believers need to learn that ...
 
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Of course we need to love. God commands love in his two greatest commandments (See: Mark 12:29-31).

In John 14:15, Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.
Jesus wants us to show that we love Him by keeping His commandments.
A person can say they love Jesus, but if they are not obeying Him, they really do not love Him.
 
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Some think we are changed to such a point after being born again that loving just becomes automatic. To a certain degree this is true, but our free will is not eliminated. We still have to keep ourselves in the love of God, continue in the faith, continue in God's grace, etc.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

  1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).

  2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

  3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

Yet, when I talk with others, they do not appear to believe these truths in Scripture.
 
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I don't mean repentance, as in turning from practicing sin to obedience to God, I mean repentance from my present unrighteous anger to peace and calmness in Christ.

My salvation doesn't hinge on whether or not I've remembered to repent, it hinges solely on my faith towards God.

Well, I disagree, brother. Jesus said repent or perish (Luke 13:3). I believe “repentance” is to seek forgiveness with the Lord, and that the fruits of repentance is living holy (doing good works and forsaking sin).

If you are interested, here is my Biblical case for repentance:
A Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that repentance means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin."

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.

Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

We also need to live holy after we are saved by God's grace, as well.
For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.
This means we cannot justify sin, but we must battle against sin.
We need to be fruitful, and not abide in those sins that the Bible condemns.
If we mess up on occasion, we need to confess of sin in order to be forgiven of sin.
 
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GenemZ

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Eve first said to the serpent,
“But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”
(Genesis 3:3).​

So she was aware of what would happen to her if she disobeyed God. She knew that she would die. The serpent was selling her on the lie that they would not die if they disobeyed God's command.

There was no death in their world before the fall. How could they understand it? The issue was simply obedience to God. Yet, Satan did understand the meaning of death. Satan was motivated to get the man and woman off the earth so he could have it back again. That never happened.

The woman added to the Word of God when she said... "neither shall ye touch it."

That's a hint God placed in the Scriptures to better know what took place.

God never said, "you shall not touch it." Only.. "shall not eat it."

She added to the Word of God.


And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight."
Phlpns 1:9

Now you want to keep dwelling on stoning people to death? If that drive still dwells in your heart? Go ahead. Others would rather gain better understanding and insight through knowledge received from the Word of God.
 
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Well, I disagree, brother. Jesus said repent or perish (Luke 13:3). I believe “repentance” is to seek forgiveness with the Lord, and that the fruits of repentance is living holy (doing good works and forsaking sin).


Good works....

But be always growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord
and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be all glory, both now and to the day
of Eternity!
2 Pet 3:18

Growing in grace and KNOWLEDGE is the good work in God's eyes! Not a work of bonding with fellow judgers.

Getting Knowledge and make sure you are walking in grace. Not venting with Scripture to express ones desire to judge and kill others who do not live as you see fit.

Mentally there are believers who are yet stone throwers. Inwardly they wish to stone immoral believers to death.

Jesus warned, if you think something towards another? In God's eyes you have committed an act attached to your emotions in regards to that sin. If you hate your brother with anger? Jesus said you are a murderer.

Its in some believers hearts to improvise a pile of stones with Scripture to grab without understanding, and wish to throw in hatred. They are failing to deal with their own self hatred. A hatred that only sound teaching can cure by God's grace over time.


When His disciples James and John saw this, they said,
“Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down
from heaven and consume them?”

But He turned and rebuked them, and said,
“You do not know what kind of spirit you are of."
Lk 9:45-46​


We have them with us here right now. Having a desire to kill someone who does not live up to the standards they impose upon themselves.
 
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There was no death in their world before the fall. How could they understand it? The issue was simply obedience to God. Yet, Satan did understand the meaning of death. Satan was motivated to get the man and woman off the earth so he could have it back again. That never happened.

The woman added to the Word of God when she said... "neither shall ye touch it."

That's a hint God placed in the Scriptures to better know what took place.

God never said, "you shall not touch it." Only.. "shall not eat it."

She added to the Word of God.


And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight."
Phlpns 1:9

Now you want to keep dwelling on stoning people to death? If that drive still dwells in your heart? Go ahead. Others would rather gain better understanding and insight through knowledge received from the Word of God.

I have been aware a long time of Eve adding to God's Word.
No offense, but you are also adding things to God's Word that are not specifically stated, too (See the first paragraph in your post #395). Logic dictates that if God warned Adam that he would die, and Eve knew about that, they most likely knew it was not good. If this was not the case then God's warning to Adam about him dying would be useless and utter nonsense to him. Besides, whether they knew of death or not is besides the point. The point is that the devil wanted to sell Eve that she would not die if she disobeyed God. OSAS Proponents want me to believe the same thing. Yet, that is the same lie pushed by the devil in the beginning. Somehow they just don't want to see it.
 
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Good works....

But be always growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord
and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be all glory, both now and to the day
of Eternity!
2 Pet 3:18

Growing in grace and KNOWLEDGE is the good work in God's eyes! Not a work of bonding with fellow judgers.

Getting Knowledge and make sure you are walking in grace. Not venting with Scripture to express ones desire to judge and kill others who do not live as you see fit.

Mentally there are believers who are yet stone throwers. Inwardly they wish to stone immoral believers to death.

Jesus warned, if you think something towards another? In God's eyes you have committed an act attached to your emotions in regards to that sin. If you hate your brother with anger? Jesus said you are a murderer.

Its in some believers hearts to improvise a pile of stones with Scripture to grab without understanding, and wish to throw in hatred. They are failing to deal with their own self hatred. A hatred that only sound teaching can cure by God's grace over time.


When His disciples James and John saw this, they said,
“Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down
from heaven and consume them?”

But He turned and rebuked them, and said,
“You do not know what kind of spirit you are of."
Lk 9:45-46​


We have them with us here right now. Having a desire to kill someone who does not live up to the standards they impose upon themselves.

As for growing in grace:

First, skip back a chapter and you will discover that Peter talks about false prophets who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14). Why were they false? Because one of their “tells” is that they could not cease from sin (Note: This would be grievous sins that the Bible condemns with hellfire and condemnation).

Second, God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously, and godly in this present world.

Three, I actually am a New Testament Non-Resistant. So you have nothing to fear from me with casting any physical stones at you. I also prefer to attack the belief and not the person, as well. God ultimately will judge a person for their wrong beliefs and or sins. I am just the messenger. In fact, I personally think street preachers could be a whole lot more loving in the way they preach these days. While they appear to be like a John the Baptist, they need to also balance their words in love.

Four, the reality is that sin can destroy a believer spiritually. If they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ over their sin, and they do not forsake their sins, they will be destroyed for justifying sin. They are proving they love their sin more than God if they don't.

As for Luke 9:45-46:

Actually, the passage you quote is Luke 9:55-56.

I am in 100% agreement with this passage. I am all for God showing mercy and giving men time and or space to seek forgiveness with the Lord at a later time. In other instances, sometimes individuals do things that are so wrong, that they are instantly killed by God like with Ananias and Sapphira. By the way, they lost their salvation by what they did. For a great fear came upon the church when they heard about their deaths. Fear only makes sense by the church because it signifies that a similar thing could happen to them (Meaning, if they did a horrible sin like that, they could also lose their salvation and be judged immediately by God). So it depends on God's Omniscience. If God takes life and condemns a believer to spiritual death, that is His call. God knows the life of the hearts of men. God knows what we will do before we will do it. But it is in God's loving character to hold out the olive branch in love for men to seek forgiveness with Him if He knows there is a chance for them to turn to Him.

Problem is that you appear to be for “OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved),” or a “Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief (i.e. the Free Will Baptist belief).” If this is the case, then it really boils down to a believer thinking they can sin and still be saved or justifying sin on some level. If this is the case, then this is extremely disturbing because that would mean God would have to agree with a person's sin in order to save them. God would have to turn a blind eye to their sin. But God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
 
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GenemZ

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I have been aware a long time of Eve adding to God's Word.
No offense, but you are also adding things to God's Word that are not specifically stated, too. Logic dictates that if God warned Adam that he would die, and Eve knew about that, they knew it was not good. If this was not the case then God's warning to Adam about him dying would be useless and utter nonsense to him. Besides, whether they knew of death or not is besides the point. The point is that the devil wanted to sell Eve that she would not die if she disobeyed God. OSAS Proponents want me to believe the same thing. Yet, that is the same lie pushed by the devil in the beginning. Somehow they just don't want to see it.


I am not doing anything but stating observation. I have not said anything yet.
Enjoy your speculative thoughts. We all go through a stage like that until we are confronted by someone who really can teach. I am not speaking of myself as being such a teacher. Nor is anyone else here being capable.

Its amazing how so many eat the forbidden fruit today in their own way. Without giving it a thought.

Prideful assumption is the enemy to the spiritual life.
 
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I am not doing anything but stating observation. I have not said anything yet.
Enjoy your speculative thoughts. We all go through a stage like that until we are confronted by someone who really can teach. I am not speaking of myself as being such a teacher. Nor is anyone else here being capable.

Its amazing how so many eat the forbidden fruit today in their own way. Without giving it a thought.

Prideful assumption is the enemy to the spiritual life.

But you don't feel your wrong, either. You believe that you are correct.
You are also not clear in stating your position on this issue, either.

Do you believe in OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved)?
Do you believe in the Free Will Baptist belief that denies OSAS and yet teaches that a believer can sin and still be saved?

As for your claim that I have expressed speculative thoughts in the Bible:
Well, I have stated things that I believe are not speculative thoughts.
God's Word clearly teaches that sin can destroy a believer. This is not speculation. This is clearly taught in God's Word and I have already provided numerous verses to back up this truth in His Word. That appears to be something you disagree with. If this is not the case, then please say so otherwise.
 
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