Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

klutedavid · Jun 2, 2020

Andre_b said:
You are so lost on what the Pharisees are about. They invented laws, that's the point. They followed their own oral laws and traditions like the Talmud, loving their own laws but ignoring the commandments of God, hence why he was quoting the commandments to them because they were IGNORING THOSE LAWS. So obey any other law than God's law won't make you righteous. Even if obeying God's laws cannot make us completely righteous doesn't mean we don't do it. You are just like the Pharisees ignoring God's law thinking what you are doing is making You righteous, following your own law. Even if you believe that you aren't. The fact of the matter is YOU ARE FOLLOWING SOME TYPE OF LAW.

We have a standoff regarding the Pharisees and the law. Your saying the Pharisees ignored the law and followed their own law. I am saying the Pharisees followed the law, added and altered some laws.

So who is right, me or you?

How about we let Paul answer that question, he was a Pharisee.

Philippians 3:5-6
Circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

So as far as Paul knows he was obedient to the law, as it stands. That is what 'found blameless' means.

There is a big difference between altering and adding some laws, and saying the Pharisees ignored all the commandments.

That is a big step to take; the Pharisees ignored ALL the commandments.

I can prove that your generalization is incorrect.

I don't think that the Pharisees ignored the commandment 'thou shall not kill'.

I don't think the Pharisees ignored the commandment to 'not commit adultery'.

You must admit that you are wrong in saying, 'ignoring the commandments'

I don't think that the Pharisees 'ignoring the commandments of God', which you claimed. Is a correct statement and I need you to retract that statement, it is wrong and misleading.

Andre_b · Jun 2, 2020

klutedavid said:
Let's keep it brief and as simple as possible.

How do we become righteous? How do we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees?

Here is what you said.
You are misspelling words and using vague phrases.

This is how you spell 'righteous' and this is how you spell 'righteousness'.

The phrase 'God's law' is only used just once in the scripture, Nehemiah 10:29. It is unwise to use this phrase 'God's law' because Nehemiah is referring to the entire law in that verse. Unless of course your referring to the entire law of Moses. I hope not! Your confusing everyone.
Back to what you said in your post.

You said, 'Righteousness comes from Love'.

Where in the scripture does it say that?

Where in the scripture does it say, 'LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW'?

Righteousness is a gift just like love, from above and not from below.

Romans 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

I have proven that righteousness is a gift and cannot be earned.

Romans 13:8-10
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

This verse above says; 'for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law'. Loving your neighbor is a commandment. It does not say that righteousness comes from love.

Here is the commandment to love your neighbor.

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord.

As I have said before, not coveting your neighbors oxen does not mean you love your neighbor. If you love your neighbor, then you are not coveting that oxen by default.

Hence why the commandments still apply, it's the very definition of love. Thanks for agreeing even though you don't want to follow them fully.

pasifika · Jun 2, 2020

Andre_b said:
Hence why the commandments still apply, it's the very definition of love. Thanks for agreeing even though you don't want to follow them fully.

Only applies to you and all those who follow the old covenant commandments....whatever commandments spoken by Jesus and the apostles is what we follow...That is what the commandments for me...

klutedavid · Jun 2, 2020

Andre_b said:
So if this is true then no one from the old testament ever made it to heaven since they were under the law, according to you.

Be careful, your on very shaky ground here.

Abraham was reckoned righteous. Not Abraham was righteous because he obeyed the decrees of God. Abraham was righteous because he believed God.

Genesis 15:6
Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Abraham believed the promise of God.

Romans 4:3
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Coveting is a sin and not love.

Correct on that so far.

No matter what twisting of scripture you will do will never change this truth.

No matter what changing of words and phrases in the scripture, is what you should have said. Which is exactly what you do all the time. For example, in some verses the phrase 'the law' means commandments. Then in other verses the phrase means 'ceremonial law'. Even other verses the phrase 'the law' means sacrificial law. That is changing the scripture to suit a method of interpretation.

I never do that, not once, 'the law' always means the entire law.

The holy spirit guides us in this, that's how it's fulfillment of the law.

Got you right here, changing the phrase 'the law' right in front of us. Fulfillment of the law means the entire law. 'The law' does not mean the ten commandments are fulfilled.

You don't know what the law is. Which is why you are completely confused and claim that coveting is not part of love.

I know the law and not coveting is not mentioned in the definition of love.

Coveting pulls the heart down into the pit of self-seeking and the muck and mire of envy, slander, adultery, pride, dishonor, murder, thievery, and idolatry. It has rightly been said that when we break any of the first nine commandments, we also break the tenth commandment.

You break all the commandments by default every time you sin. Sin is transgression of the law and breaking any law, is breaking the whole law, as James states.

pasifika · Jun 2, 2020

Andre_b said:
You cannot love perfectly, so you are already breaking the "law of love". So keep contradicting yourself thinking you're not under some type of law. You are simply making up your own law in your mind and aren't behaving like Christ did. You should work 7 days a week since you "believe" rest isn't needed and good for the soul, if not then you are being a hypocrite.

We can love perfect because the commandment is to love. And that love is in the Son. So if you have the Son then Gods love is in You or Me...
The law is spiritual so the sabbath is a spiritual rest...

klutedavid · Jun 2, 2020

pasifika said:
Only applies to you and all those who follow the old covenant commandments....whatever commandments spoken by Jesus and the apostles is what we follow...That is what the commandments for me...

Exactly, the law of Christ!

pasifika · Jun 2, 2020

Studyman said:
How did the serpent get in the garden?

The serpent already the evil one before cast out from heaven to this earth...iniquity was found in Him...

klutedavid · Jun 2, 2020

Studyman said:
That is what the religions of the land preach. But the Scriptures teach something different.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

We have the Scriptures inspired by a superior God, who knows what HE is saying, and we have "Many" religious men, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who Jesus Himself says He doesn't know.

How can we know which one we are, given everyone who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, are convinced they are His?

It is a good and prudent question.

God, in His Tender Mercy, tells us how we can know for sure which spirit is directing out footsteps.

Here is just one of many, Inspired by God Scriptures, which tell us how we can know for sure if we are deceived or not.

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his (The Fathers) commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

But religious men, deceiving and being deceived, are convinced and have convinced "many" that much of the Christ's Walk was worthless Jewish tradition, only created for men of a certain DNA, and to obey Him in these Commandments is not Righteousness.

But if we Listen to Every Word of God, and have Faith in His Word, as opposed to the "other religious voices" in the land, was can over come, just as Jesus did as His Father Commanded, and overcame.

This is the same Dilemma Jesus caused for the Mainstream religions of His Time. He exposed to them that they were deceived, that they were not doing God's Will, but another spirit. How did He know? Because they said they knew God, but they transgressed His Commandments. "You shall know them by their works".

Some men accepted that the God of the Bible is superior to them and they repented and changed. (Cornelius, Nicodemus, Zecharias, etc.) But most just got mad, and they hated the messenger, like Cain did Abel, because it seems their religion and pride is more precious and to be preserved over what God actually instructs.

These parts of the Gospel of Christ are important to talk about, but uncomfortable to "many".

For instance, you are saying if I Love Jesus and strive with all my heart to walk even as He walked, that this is not righteousness. This is wrong as John points out. "he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

So now what? Will you accept what John says? Or will you argue and try to justify your own religion?

We know what the Pharisees did, and it didn't work out so well for them. Shall we turn a blind eye to these examples just because the Light they generate exposes a darkness in us?

God forbid!!!!

A superb example of changing the scripture to suit your needs.

I John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his (The Fathers) commandments.

See the interpolation (The Fathers), you are forced to do that.
Just in case someone sees 'his commandments' and looks for his commandments in John's first letter.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Well believing in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ. Is not a commandment found in the ten commandments. So I must be correct, 'his commandments' means 1 John 3:23-24.

Stop twisting the scripture.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 2, 2020

klutedavid said:
Let's keep it brief and as simple as possible.

How do we become righteous? How do we exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees?

Here is what you said.
You are misspelling words and using vague phrases.

This is how you spell 'righteous' and this is how you spell 'righteousness'.

The phrase 'God's law' is only used just once in the scripture, Nehemiah 10:29. It is unwise to use this phrase 'God's law' because Nehemiah is referring to the entire law in that verse. Unless of course your referring to the entire law of Moses. I hope not! Your confusing everyone.
Back to what you said in your post.

You said, 'Righteousness comes from Love'.

Where in the scripture does it say that?

Where in the scripture does it say, 'LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW'?

Righteousness is a gift just like love, from above and not from below.

Romans 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

I have proven that righteousness is a gift and cannot be earned.

Romans 13:8-10
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

This verse above says; 'for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law'. Loving your neighbor is a commandment. It does not say that righteousness comes from love.

Here is the commandment to love your neighbor.

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord.

As I have said before, not coveting your neighbors oxen does not mean you love your neighbor. If you love your neighbor, then you are not coveting that oxen by default.

Zzz what question did you answer in the previous post asked of you? - Nothing. It is ok you do not have to answer those questions if you do not know the answers. It may be worth putting you on ignore as I see your not here for a discssion but to simply make unfounded claims no one is talking about.

pasifika · Jun 2, 2020

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
So you are sinless? 1 John 1:10

Im Not sinless Now and i never mentioned that im sinless. But Sinless is what is required of me..as it says without holiness no one will see the Lord..Being Sinless is not achieve by obeying the law (Sinai) But by being in Christ that why He gave us His Spirit..Romans 8:1..Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...

Andre_b · Jun 2, 2020

klutedavid said:
A superb example of changing the scripture to suit your needs.

I John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his (The Fathers) commandments.

See the interpolation (The Fathers), you are forced to do that.
Just in case someone sees 'his commandments' and looks for his commandments in John's first letter.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Well believing in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ. Is not a commandment found in the ten commandments. So I must be correct, 'his commandments' means 1 John 3:23-24.

Stop twisting the scripture.

1 John 3:23-24 is not plural, it's singular, this is His commandment. It is 1 commandment. Nice try though. It's one of many. Interesting how you are found to twist the scriptures here and you blame others of what you are the one doing it.

Andre_b · Jun 2, 2020

pasifika said:
We can love perfect because the commandment is to love. And that love is in the Son. So if you have the Son then Gods love is in You or Me...
The law is spiritual so the sabbath is a spiritual rest...

So go work 7 days a week since you don't believe that you need physical rest also. Don't be a hypocrite now.

Andre_b · Jun 2, 2020

klutedavid said:
Be careful, your on very shaky ground here.

Abraham was reckoned righteous. Not Abraham was righteous because he obeyed the decrees of God. Abraham was righteous because he believed God.

Genesis 15:6
Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Abraham believed the promise of God.

Romans 4:3
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.Correct on that so far.No matter what changing of words and phrases in the scripture, is what you should have said. Which is exactly what you do all the time. For example, in some verses the phrase 'the law' means commandments. Then in other verses the phrase means 'ceremonial law'. Even other verses the phrase 'the law' means sacrificial law. That is changing the scripture to suit a method of interpretation.

I never do that, not once, 'the law' always means the entire law.Got you right here, changing the phrase 'the law' right in front of us. Fulfillment of the law means the entire law. 'The law' does not mean the ten commandments are fulfilled.I know the law and not coveting is not mentioned in the definition of love.You break all the commandments by default every time you sin. Sin is transgression of the law and breaking any law, is breaking the whole law, as James states.

So only Abraham was save then, all that were under the "law" during Moses and Israel was not saved then, according to you?

God said Abraham was righteous because of this also " "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws". Keep ignoring verses and false witnessing though.

The law is based on context, just like anything else in the bible. How many times I keep telling you that, you do not register it. You ignore context, just like I showed you in the previous post on the one commandment, yet you said this was the commandments he was talking about. If it's was he wouldn't have put it plural. All you do is find a couple of verse that says the word commandment which can sumerize many and claim it's only one.

Coveting is not part of love according to you. Keep putting God's commandments down is treading on thin ice. I'd be carful if I were you.

pasifika · Jun 2, 2020

Andre_b said:
So go work 7 days a week since you don't believe that you need physical rest also. Don't be a hypocrite now.

So why are you calling me a hypocrite if I work 7days a week? Did Jesus ever mentioned a day for physical rest for the christians? Sabbath rest is spiritual rest Christ gives us that rest ..that is my understanding.

pasifika · Jun 2, 2020

Andre_b said:
1 John 3:23-24 is not plural, it's singular, this is His commandment. It is 1 commandment. Nice try though. It's one of many. Interesting how you are found to twist the scriptures here and you blame others of what you are the one doing it.

You keep this one you keep all other commands, You fail to keep this one you fail to keep All other commands...

klutedavid · Jun 2, 2020

Andre_b said:
1 John 3:23-24 is not plural, it's singular, this is His commandment. It is 1 commandment. Nice try though. It's one of many. Interesting how you are found to twist the scriptures here and you blame others of what you are the one doing it.

Did Jesus give that commandment and there are two there?

Or did the Father declare that commandment?

klutedavid · Jun 2, 2020

pasifika said:
You keep this one you keep all other commands, You fail to keep this one you fail to keep All other commands...

The verse your referring to does not say, 'if you fail to keep this one...you fail to keep All other commandments'.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

James says the 'whole law', James does not say ALL commandments. Your twisting the scripture on this point.

Sorry about that but this happens when you talk to these folk, you adopt their twist.

pasifika · Jun 2, 2020

klutedavid said:
The verse your referring to does not say, 'if you fail to keep this one...you fail to keep All other commandments'.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

James says the 'whole law', James does not say ALL commandments. Your twisting the scripture on this point.

Sorry about that but this happens when you talk to these folk, you adopt their twist.

Yes, but James is talking about the points (commands within the whole law) that you stumble at..James 2:10...For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumble at one point is guilty of breaking ALL of it...

Andre_b · Jun 2, 2020

klutedavid said:
The verse your referring to does not say, 'if you fail to keep this one...you fail to keep All other commandments'.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

James says the 'whole law', James does not say ALL commandments. Your twisting the scripture on this point.

Sorry about that but this happens when you talk to these folk, you adopt their twist.

You weren't even talking about James liar. We were talking about John. I'm done with you. You are just twisting and using the word to twist what it says, just like in the garden.

klutedavid · Jun 2, 2020

Andre_b said:
So only Abraham was save then, all that were under the "law" during Moses and Israel was not saved then, according to you?

I am using Abraham as a simple example to avoid a massive post, that no one could read.

God said Abraham was righteous because of this also " "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws". Keep ignoring verses and false witnessing though.

Paul's point in Romans 4, was that Abraham was reckoned righteous. Before circumcision, before the law. Abraham was reckoned righteous before sacrificing his son.

You cannot debate this fact.

Romans 4
13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Not ignoring the verse you quoted at all.

Abraham was reckoned righteous because he believed God's promise, i.e., the messiah.

The law is based on context, just like anything else in the bible.

Context is what you consider when you read the scripture.

The law always means the law of Moses.

How many times I keep telling you that, you do not register it.

Oh I register your interpretation of the scripture. I know exactly how you read the scripture.

You ignore context

The phrase 'the law' always means the law of Moses. You change the meaning of 'the law' according to the context. You say 'the law' in this verse... means the ten commandments, according to your interpretation. According to your understanding of context.

just like I showed you in the previous post on the one commandment, yet you said this was the commandments he was talking about.

Plural commandments only because the next verse John tells us he is not saying one commandment.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

Plural!

If it's was he wouldn't have put it plural.

He did mention two commandments in one.

All you do is find a couple of verse that says the word commandment which can sumerize many and claim it's only one.

When the scripture says 'the law', never wave the wand, just leave it alone.

Coveting is not part of love according to you. Keep putting God's commandments down is treading on thin ice. I'd be carful if I were you.

Not committing murder is also not an act of pure love towards others. Your trying to claim that someone who never murdered anyone, is a loving person. That is outrageous and erroneous. Another claim you need to withdraw.

Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Did Adam and Eve keep each seventh-day Sabbath?

Yes

No

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