LDS Heavenly Father

Jamesone5 · Jun 1, 2020

Ironhold said:
I just pointed out that there is a school of thought within mainstream Christianity that does in fact allow for what you proposed.

Please respond to that rather than dodging or passing the buck.

I could care less what this "school of thought" is to you.

We are two people-- I am a True Christian and you as a Mormon , who wants to pretend to defend your faith, but won't.

You seem to have lost traction for this argument in getting lost in the weeds.

Ironhold said: ↑
Is = represents

And I asked you how that definition worked.

And by the way YOU do not get to direct the conversations to just is what is convenient for you.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 1, 2020

Ironhold said:
It wasn't complete at the time Joseph was murdered.

Should be irrelevant shouldn't it? If what he did complete is "the most accurate", according to your fellow mormon, then why doesn't your church use what it has?

He is the way · Jun 1, 2020

BigDaddy4 said:
Then why is it not the "official" translation of the lds?

It is in the footnotes of our scriptures.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 1, 2020

He is the way said:
It is in the footnotes of our scriptures.

"Although not the official Bible of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints..."

Be careful of being hypocritical here...

He is the way · Jun 1, 2020

BigDaddy4 said:
"Although not the official Bible of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints..."

Be careful of being hypocritical here...

There are not that many changes in the JST and the KJV. most people are familiar with the KJV although there are many other translations of the Bible.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 2, 2020

He is the way said:
There are not that many changes in the JST and the KJV. most people are familiar with the KJV although there are many other translations of the Bible.

The JST changes are unfounded. You can't just re-write a translation just because your theology doesn't agree with it. The KJV is a translation of original language (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic) documents. You would have to make a case that JS knew those were incorrect, and you can't. JS had no clue on original language documents.

Hammster · Jun 2, 2020

How does Colossians 1:15 read in the JST?

drstevej · Jun 2, 2020

How about Romans 8:30

Greek Text: οὓς δὲ προώρισεν τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν καὶ οὓς ἐκάλεσεν τούτους καὶ ἐδικαίωσεν οὓς δὲ ἐδικαίωσεν τούτους καὶ ἐδόξασεν

KJV: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

JST: Moreover, him whom he did predestinate, him he also called; and him whom he called, him he also sanctified; and him whom he sanctified, him he also glorified.

=======

SMITH changed Justified to Sanctified to support his works based salvation. There are NO greek manuscripts that support this rendering. This is not translation it is chicanery.

He is the way · Jun 2, 2020

BigDaddy4 said:
The JST changes are unfounded. You can't just re-write a translation just because your theology doesn't agree with it. The KJV is a translation of original language (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic) documents. You would have to make a case that JS knew those were incorrect, and you can't. JS had no clue on original language documents.

Joseph Smith made those changes as he was guided by the Holy Ghost.
(New Testament | 2 Peter 1:21)

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

He is the way · Jun 2, 2020

Hammster said:
How does Colossians 1:15 read in the JST?

It is the same.

Hammster · Jun 2, 2020

He is the way said:
It is the same.

So God the Father is spirit.

He is the way · Jun 2, 2020

Hammster said:
So God the Father is spirit.

(New Testament | Colossians 1:15)

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Nothing there about spirits. Jesus is not a spirit but we don't see Him unless He allows it.

Hammster · Jun 2, 2020

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Colossians 1:15)

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Nothing there about spirits. Jesus is not a spirit but we don't see Him unless He allows it.

The invisible God part is important. Corporeal brings aren’t invisible.

He is the way · Jun 2, 2020

Hammster said:
The invisible God part is important. Corporeal brings aren’t invisible.

The invisible Christ appeared to His apostles and He is not a spirit:
(New Testament | Luke 24:36 - 43)

36 ¶ And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Hammster · Jun 2, 2020

He is the way said:
The invisible Christ appeared to His apostles and He is not a spirit:
(New Testament | Luke 24:36 - 43)

36 ¶ And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

He wasn’t invisible.

He is the way · Jun 2, 2020

Hammster said:
He wasn’t invisible.

Yes He is invisible when He wants to be:

(New Testament | Luke 24:30 - 31)

30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

(New Testament | Matthew 18:20)

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

(New Testament | Mark 16:12)

12 ¶ After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

(New Testament | John 20:26)

26 ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Hammster · Jun 2, 2020

He is the way said:
Yes He is invisible when He wants to be:

(New Testament | Luke 24:30 - 31)

30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

(New Testament | Matthew 18:20)

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

(New Testament | Mark 16:12)

12 ¶ After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

(New Testament | John 20:26)

26 ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Vanishing and being invisible are two separate things.

He is the way · Jun 2, 2020

Hammster said:
Vanishing and being invisible are two separate things.

When two or more people are gathered in His name, do they see Him when He is standing in their midst?

Hammster · Jun 2, 2020

He is the way said:
When two or more people are gathered in His name, do they see Him when He is standing in their midst?

Is He not omnipresent in LDS theology?

He is the way · Jun 2, 2020

Hammster said:
Is He not omnipresent in LDS theology?

We believe this:

(New Testament | Matthew 18:20)

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Did you are they see Him?

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