Can the day or hour be known?

nolidad · May 19, 2020

keras said:
It is plainly obvious that there IS a gap between the Crucifixion of Jesus, Daniel 9:26, and the desecration of the Temple as described by Jesus, Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thess 2:4.
That gap is the Church age, as we have had over the last 1990 +/- 1 or 2 years.

Those who deny this truth, are simply deluding themselves.

Well it is fun to debate these issues. As it says Iron sharpens iron! But in the grand scheme of things- preterists are still saved, just crippled in their walk with God because they hold to allegorical interpretations of Scripture.

keras · May 20, 2020

nolidad said:
Well it is fun to debate these issues. As it says Iron sharpens iron! But in the grand scheme of things- preterists are still saved, just crippled in their walk with God because they hold to allegorical interpretations of Scripture.

Yes; I do get a great satisfaction from helping people understand the Prophetic Word.
That I get more rejections than thanks doesn't worry me, at least I have presented the alternative and scripturally correct end times scenario.

Re: the OP of this thread; For now, we cannot know the Day the Lord will take action and commence the events that will lead up to His Return.
But as things progress, it will become possible to know the date of Jesus Return. That glorious Day will be exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated by the Anti-Christ, the 'beast' of Revelation 13:5-8

nolidad · May 20, 2020

keras said:
Yes; I do get a great satisfaction from helping people understand the Prophetic Word.
That I get more rejections than thanks doesn't worry me, at least I have presented the alternative and scripturally correct end times scenario.

Re: the OP of this thread; For now, we cannot know the Day the Lord will take action and commence the events that will lead up to His Return.
But as things progress, it will become possible to know the date of Jesus Return. That glorious Day will be exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated by the Anti-Christ, the 'beast' of Revelation 13:5-8

Actually it is the empowering of the 7 year covenant that teh Antichrist makes with the many of Israel!

The rapture is the day we know not the day or hour! It has been imminent Since Jesus ascended!

Davy · May 21, 2020

nolidad said:
Well it is fun to debate these issues. As it says Iron sharpens iron! But in the grand scheme of things- preterists are still saved, just crippled in their walk with God because they hold to allegorical interpretations of Scripture.

I see a much more grave situation for them, like Jesus closing the door on them per Matthew 25, and their being cast to the "outer darkness" with the unbeliever during His future thousand years reign, i.e., under the 'rod'.

The reason is, because one of the grand deceptions for the end of this world is the coming pseudo-Messiah that is coming to Jerusalem to play Christ. I see Paul's warning of deceived brethren falling away to that false one, even as our Lord gave warning through the spiritually chaste virgin analogy vs. spiritual harlotry at the end.

One of the political doctrines of Christ's enemies for centuries has been the idea of a one-world kingdom to imitate God's Kingdom. Satan first tried to do it in the old world when he first rebelled against God in coveting His throne. Then ancient Sumer, Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, then Rome; they all tried. Our Lord warned us about one last final attempt at it for the end of this world. Those who wrongly push the false idea that Jesus' 2nd coming already happened, or that His 2nd coming is not really a literal, physical return, are steeped in this coming false one-world beast kingdom for the end. And they won't wake up from their deception until they see Jesus, and then it will be too late.

Will they still be saved? I believe so, but during Christ's future thousand years reign, they won't be allowed to approach Him, and will stand in judgment throughout all that period.

Matt 25:8-13
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, 'Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.'
9 But the wise answered, saying, 'Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.'
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us.'
12 But he answered and said, 'Verily I say unto you, I know you not.'
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
KJV

nolidad · May 21, 2020

Davy said:
I see a much more grave situation for them, like Jesus closing the door on them per Matthew 25, and their being cast to the "outer darkness" with the unbeliever during His future thousand years reign, i.e., under the 'rod'.

The reason is, because one of the grand deceptions for the end of this world is the coming pseudo-Messiah that is coming to Jerusalem to play Christ. I see Paul's warning of deceived brethren falling away to that false one, even as our Lord gave warning through the spiritually chaste virgin analogy vs. spiritual harlotry at the end.

One of the political doctrines of Christ's enemies for centuries has been the idea of a one-world kingdom to imitate God's Kingdom. Satan first tried to do it in the old world when he first rebelled against God in coveting His throne. Then ancient Sumer, Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, then Rome; they all tried. Our Lord warned us about one last final attempt at it for the end of this world. Those who wrongly push the false idea that Jesus' 2nd coming already happened, or that His 2nd coming is not really a literal, physical return, are steeped in this coming false one-world beast kingdom for the end. And they won't wake up from their deception until they see Jesus, and then it will be too late.

Will they still be saved? I believe so, but during Christ's future thousand years reign, they won't be allowed to approach Him, and will stand in judgment throughout all that period.

Matt 25:8-13
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, 'Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.'
9 But the wise answered, saying, 'Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.'
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us.'
12 But he answered and said, 'Verily I say unto you, I know you not.'
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
KJV

Well without getting int ot he arguments of the timing of the rapture and who is and isn't in the bride of Christ, this is not a deal breaker! I am a teacher of the word and while I will argue against the many false eschatological doctrines I am convinced the bible does not support, this still is mon ir!

Will it cripple a believers understanding of the Word? Absolutely! Will it stunt their growth in areas? Yes! But a dispensational eschatology is not a prerequisite for salvation and being raptured to be wed with Jesus and co-reign as His bride for the 1,000 year kingdom! If a preterist alive now or in the past is not part of teh church thus His bride who returns with Jesus to establish the Millenial Kingdom, then they are not saved at all! and are destined for an eternity in the lake of fire! But that is not the case, if they trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sin.

Davy · May 21, 2020

nolidad said:
Well without getting int ot he arguments of the timing of the rapture and who is and isn't in the bride of Christ, this is not a deal breaker! I am a teacher of the word and while I will argue against the many false eschatological doctrines I am convinced the bible does not support, this still is mon ir!

Will it cripple a believers understanding of the Word? Absolutely! Will it stunt their growth in areas? Yes! But a dispensational eschatology is not a prerequisite for salvation and being raptured to be wed with Jesus and co-reign as His bride for the 1,000 year kingdom! If a preterist alive now or in the past is not part of teh church thus His bride who returns with Jesus to establish the Millenial Kingdom, then they are not saved at all! and are destined for an eternity in the lake of fire! But that is not the case, if they trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sin.

I am not a Dispensationalist, nor on a Pre-tribulational Rapture theory. Just because I do believe God's Word about Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect as written in Revelation 20 does not make me a Futurist either. So all you've really done is just throw a bucket of slop out in response to my post while dwelling on men's ideas when you claimed you were not.

nolidad · May 22, 2020

Davy said:
I am not a Dispensationalist, nor on a Pre-tribulational Rapture theory. Just because I do believe God's Word about Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect as written in Revelation 20 does not make me a Futurist either. So all you've really done is just throw a bucket of slop out in response to my post while dwelling on men's ideas when you claimed you were not.

Well you keep accusing me of using mens opinions when I keep quoting the Bible! Anything we call ourselves (even the arrogantly holy "biblicists") is man made. I have no problem with titles, only with content. I do not agree with all dispensationalists or pre-tribbers. They may have th eright answer, but all the wrong reasons sometimes.

Well I am gone for a week to visit my son, his wife and three of my 8 precious grandkids. Maybe we shall resume this next Saturday when I have returned!

Davy · May 24, 2020

nolidad said:
Well you keep accusing me of using mens opinions when I keep quoting the Bible! Anything we call ourselves (even the arrogantly holy "biblicists") is man made. I have no problem with titles, only with content. I do not agree with all dispensationalists or pre-tribbers. They may have th eright answer, but all the wrong reasons sometimes.

Well I am gone for a week to visit my son, his wife and three of my 8 precious grandkids. Maybe we shall resume this next Saturday when I have returned!

I don't know what the heck you're talking about. I posted about the coming pseudo-Messiah that Christ revealed in Matthew 24:23-26, and how many brethren will be fooled by that false one playing Christ Jesus. You were the one who began accusing me of men's doctrines which cannot even be found... in my posts.

Obviously you are angry because of my revealing how some of your doctrines are actually NOT staying with God's written Word. I can't help you're angry because of that. And I say, if the shoe fits, wear it.

Blade · May 24, 2020

Can we know.. shall we have a history lesson how many times through out history this was done? Some took the days listed as years and then sold everything and waited on that day.. yeah.. no matter how many times.. seems Christ never came back.

Christ is the word.. everything made was made by Him. They are one.. yet Christ on earth said.. No one knows.. not even the angels. A we know all this was planned even before the fall. Seems Satan when he was in heaven.. never knew a thing. Even standing with Christ.. didn't know how He really was.

So what gets me is we know man has been asking this since Christ left. So... for over 2 thousand years not one prayer request has been answered on this. So I am only going to guess.. He wont tell you something He does not know.

I personally do not believe I will be here. I will be caught up.. yeah another "can we know when?" lol. That I do believe we will know .. just before.. like....you get up make coffee and.. wait.. something wonderful is about to Happen.. Hes coming.. poof. I like it.. lol

keras · May 24, 2020

Blade said:
Can we know.. shall we have a history lesson how many times through out history this was done? Some took the days listed as years and then sold everything and waited on that day.. yeah.. no matter how many times.. seems Christ never came back.

There have surely been many who have made failed predictions, fools like Harold Camping and William Miller, the founder of the confused and deceived SDA Church.

The result of this kind of scaremongering is that most people now no longer take notice of anyone who may speak the truth of what the Lord has planned. It is the ‘cry wolf’ syndrome. Also a lot of Christians abhor the idea of ‘knowing the Day and the hour’, because when Jesus was on earth, He said that even He didn’t know.
But to say this about the next event prophesied, actually breaks scripture as many prophets say that we can know God’s plans. Amos 3:7

Now, the world is lulled into a false sense of security, they hold to the belief that mankind can solve its own problems by science, diplomacy, etc.
But many prophecies say how the Lord will act unexpectedly – in an instant, suddenly on one day.

1 Thess. 5:3 While they are saying: All is peaceful, all secure, then suddenly, [like a thief] destruction is upon them and there will be no escape.

Luke 21:35 That Day will come suddenly, like a trap on everyone the whole world over.
1 Thess. 5:4 But you, My friends are not in the dark, that Day will not come upon you like a thief.

This is an indictment, because if we are the Lord’s friend, then why don’t we know what He will do and when He will act? Therefore it is a very serious matter for us to make every effort to study the Scriptures, carefully putting aside any teachings that do not take full account of ALL the prophecies.

From prophecies like Psalm 83, Micah 4:11-12, Jeremiah 12:14, we can discern that the scenario predicted so long ago, will be a reality in our day. God judged the whole world in Noah’s day by a great flood, this time the prophets tell us He will use a fire judgement.

Deuteronomy 32:34-35 & 22 I have in reserve, sealed in My storehouse, waiting until the Day of punishment and vengeance, at the moment My enemies’ foot slips, [makes a mistake] for the Day of doom is fast approaching. For fire is set ablaze by My anger, it envelopes the earth and devours its produce.

Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all the proud and evil people will be as stubble, that Day will set them ablaze leaving neither root nor branch.
Isaiah 30:26 ...the sun will shine with seven times its normal strength...

This informs us of what it is that the Lord will use on the terrible Day of His vengeance and wrath. It will be a Coronal Mass Ejection of an unprecedented magnitude. One that will cause all the graphically prophesied effects, but will maintain His hiddenness so most will refuse to acknowledge God and will establish a One World Government. But for those who do trust in the Lord and keep His commandments, there are the wonderful promises of gathering and living in the holy Land until the eventual Return of Jesus to reign for 1000 years.

As for when this shocking CME will strike, we know the ‘season’, that is in our time and it will happen ‘when My enemies make a mistake’. His enemies: those who attack Israel. So at the moment of attack, it will happen.

nolidad · May 31, 2020

Davy said:
I don't know what the heck you're talking about. I posted about the coming pseudo-Messiah that Christ revealed in Matthew 24:23-26, and how many brethren will be fooled by that false one playing Christ Jesus. You were the one who began accusing me of men's doctrines which cannot even be found... in my posts.

Obviously you are angry because of my revealing how some of your doctrines are actually NOT staying with God's written Word. I can't help you're angry because of that. And I say, if the shoe fits, wear it.

Actually I am not angry with you at all! And none of my posts are outside of SCripture.

And Matt 24:23-26, it is talking about the many false Christs that have appeared since Jesus returned to heaven!

from Jesus bar Kochba in 135 AD to Helen White, Mary Eddy, Joseph Smith, Charles Russell, Father Divine, Sun Yung Moon, Jim Jones, David Koresh and many many others (including Popes who believe they are Christ on earth)

THE Antichrist of Revelation will be revealed no later than when he empowers the 7 year covenant with Israel. He will demand global worship as the False Messiah when he rises form the dead and the false prophet erects the image and institutes the mark!

BABerean2 · May 31, 2020

grafted branch said:
When the final week or seven in Daniel 9:27 is placed in the future, people on earth at this time will be able to calculate the date of Christ’s coming by adding 7 years to the date that the covenant was signed. If Matthew 24:22 is used to make the assertion that the days are shortened and therefore no one will be able to determine with any accuracy the date, then the full 70 weeks that are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city in Daniel 9:24 will not be fulfilled.

Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant? If not, the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27, is the covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28.

(Dr. Kelly Varner on the New Covenant of Daniel chapter 9)

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

.

grafted branch · Jun 1, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant? If not, the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27, is the covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28.

(Dr. Kelly Varner on the New Covenant of Daniel chapter 9)

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

.

I watched the entire video you posted and I don’t have any argument with it other than I think Jesus’s ministry started after John the Baptist was beheaded (the video said His ministry started when He stepped out of the water after being baptized). I agree that Jesus fulfilled the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31. The video also states that the 70 weeks are continuous with no gap and end at the stoning of Stephen.

I have looked at this before and thought that the reason Stephen sees the Son of man standing on the right hand of God and not sitting was because the last week was not yet finished. In Hebrews 10:12 after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God. This would create a gap in between the sacrifice and when he actually sat down.

I think there is a gap in Hebrews 10:12 but would like to get your opinion on that.

BABerean2 · Jun 1, 2020

grafted branch said:
I watched the entire video you posted and I don’t have any argument with it other than I think Jesus’s ministry started after John the Baptist was beheaded (the video said His ministry started when He stepped out of the water after being baptized). I agree that Jesus fulfilled the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31. The video also states that the 70 weeks are continuous with no gap and end at the stoning of Stephen.

I have looked at this before and thought that the reason Stephen sees the Son of man standing on the right hand of God and not sitting was because the last week was not yet finished. In Hebrews 10:12 after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God. This would create a gap in between the sacrifice and when he actually sat down.

I think there is a gap in Hebrews 10:12 but would like to get your opinion on that.

Is the "anointing" in Daniel 9:24 found below?

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

..............................................................................................

The rest of the passage should help provide the context to your question.
Verses 16, and 17 refer to the New Covenant.
Verse 18 seems to refer back to verse 12.

Heb 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,
Heb 10:13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
Heb 10:15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
NKJV)
.

nolidad · Jun 1, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant? If not, the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27, is the covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28.

(Dr. Kelly Varner on the New Covenant of Daniel chapter 9)

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

.

Do you think that given the amount of prophecy about the New Covenant- it would have been little redundant? Not every prophecy concerning the coming of Jesus had the New covenant mentioned.

grafted branch · Jun 1, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Is the "anointing" in Daniel 9:24 found below?

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Yes.

I made a mistake on my previous post; I think Jesus’s ministry started after John the Baptists was put in prison and not after his death. In Matthew 4:12 Jesus hears that John is put in prison. In Matthew 4:17 it says from that time Jesus began to preach.

My reasoning for this has to do with Daniel 12:11-12. There are 1290 days until the abomination that maketh desolate is set up. I think the first sacrifice made after the veil of the temple was torn in two would be considered an abomination. In Matthew 27:51 along with the veil being torn there was an earthquake and the rocks rent. I think the altar used to make the sacrifices was broken down. Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days. This is Pentecost and is recorded in Acts 2. The difference between 1290 and 1335 is 45 days, which means it would have taken some time to put the temple back in order and resume the sacrifices after the veil was torn and the earthquake.

I see the event of Jesus being called the Lamb of God in John 1:29 as the necessity to provide the daily sacrifice being taken away because God has now provided it. So Jesus’s ministry would have started after this which is why I place it as Matthew 4:17. This then puts the sacrifice and oblation ceasing (earthquake and veil being torn) in the midst of the 70th week, Jesus’s ministry starting at the beginning of the week, and the daily sacrifice being taken away in the 69th week.

BABerean2 · Jun 1, 2020

nolidad said:
Do you think that given the amount of prophecy about the New Covenant- it would have been little redundant? Not every prophecy concerning the coming of Jesus had the New covenant mentioned.

The Greek word "diatheke" is translated as both "covenant" (Hebrews 12:24), and "testament" in the KJV.
The NKJV translates it more consistently as "covenant".

Therefore, the 27 books written during the first century from Matthew through Revelation would be about the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, many man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.

Much of the confusion in the modern day Church is produced by a misunderstanding of the New Covenant.
.

nolidad · Jun 2, 2020

BABerean2 said:
The Greek word "diatheke" is translated as both "covenant" (Hebrews 12:24), and "testament" in the KJV.
The NKJV translates it more consistently as "covenant".

Therefore, the 27 books written during the first century from Matthew through Revelation would be about the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, many man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.

Much of the confusion in the modern day Church is produced by a misunderstanding of the New Covenant.
.

The 27 books of the NT are a history of Jesus coming to Israel, being rejected as foreknown by the Father, dying and physically rising! Instituting the New Covenant and leaving a memorial for us to celebrate in the Lords Supper! Acts is History and the rest is the Rules and truths by which the Church glorifies God on earth by conforming our lives to His Will. His Promise to Israel found in teh New Covenant will still come to pass, exactly as he told the prophet Jeremiah!

The Church which is the body of Christ composed of Jew and Gentile is one body. Believing Jews are th recipients of that Covenant and we gentiles by being grafted to the vine of Blessing are partakers, not taker overs of the New Covenant. It still belongs to Israel. ONe Day all Israel will receive Christ as Messiah!

Zech. 13:

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Then this becomes literally fulfilled:

Jeremiah 31:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

BABerean2 · Jun 2, 2020

nolidad said:
The 27 books of the NT are a history of Jesus coming to Israel, being rejected as foreknown by the Father, dying and physically rising! Instituting the New Covenant and leaving a memorial for us to celebrate in the Lords Supper! Acts is History and the rest is the Rules and truths by which the Church glorifies God on earth by conforming our lives to His Will. His Promise to Israel found in teh New Covenant will still come to pass, exactly as he told the prophet Jeremiah!

The Church which is the body of Christ composed of Jew and Gentile is one body. Believing Jews are th recipients of that Covenant and we gentiles by being grafted to the vine of Blessing are partakers, not taker overs of the New Covenant. It still belongs to Israel. ONe Day all Israel will receive Christ as Messiah!

Zech. 13:

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Then this becomes literally fulfilled:

Jeremiah 31:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Your attempts to separate faithful Israel from the Church fall apart in the scripture below.

Why did Peter address the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, if Peter was not talking to Israel? On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31. The Gentiles were not grafted into the Church until several years later.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes" who were his "brethren" in the "faith", if he was not talking to faithful Israel?

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

These passages and many others kill the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology. Modern Orthodox Jews will not come to faith outside of the Church during a future time period, as most Dispensationalists claim.

Anyone who claims God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people through the sacrifice of His Son at Calvary, needs to read their Bible again.

.

nolidad · Jun 2, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Your attempts to separate faithful Israel from the Church fall apart in the scripture below.

Why did Peter address the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, if Peter was not talking to Israel? On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31. The Gentiles were not grafted into the Church until several years later.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes" who were his "brethren" in the "faith", if he was not talking to faithful Israel?

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

These passages and many others kill the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology. Modern Orthodox Jews will not come to faith outside of the Church during a future time period, as most Dispensationalists claim.

Anyone who claims God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people through the sacrifice of His Son at Calvary, needs to read their Bible again.

.

OT Israel is not part of the Body of Christ! Paul made that clear when he declared that we are baptized into one body through the Spirit! So the Body of Christ was born at Pentecost.

All believing Jews are one body with all believing Gentiles during the dispensation of the Church age!

Then in the last days before Jesus physically returns to earth, the 1/3 of Israel that survives the tribualtion period will have the veil lifted

2 Cor. 3

13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

As Tribulation saints are not part of the body of Christ- this 1/3 survivors of all Israel will be saved, just not part of teh Body of Christ and the bodies role it plays in the millenial kingdom!

Can the day or hour be known?

Can the day or hour be known prior to Christ's second coming?

Yes

No

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