Does doctrine really matter?

Tone said:

What?

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Michael Collum said:

The one thing that brings unity of various factions in the faith is persecution. This over time weeds out all the people who are there for themselves and cannot get beyond the philosophy they grew up on and to Christ.

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Tone said:

Torah and its fulfillment.



What?

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JacksBratt said:

The Torah was fulfilled by His work. It is not a "religion". It's a history that presented the prophesies of His coming. The laws that existed before were fulfilled by Him.

Christ taught a way of life. Christ showed that salvation is only possible due to His work and through Him.

Christ showed the errors of the "religious leaders" of that time.. Just as there are faults in doctrines of religion today. Not to mention religions that have nothing to do with what Christ taught.

The term "Christian" is based on those that follow the teaching of Christ. It's not a religion.. it's a change from being bound by sin to being free from sin.

The more "rules" and "classifications" there is... the more we become bound by ideas of men...

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Neostarwcc said:

This is a genuine question with genuine reasoning. I'm asking this question because I've seen Christian's across both Arminianism and Calvinism grow spiritually. I've seen people who believe partially between the two grow spiritually. I've even seen my own wife who still believes the eucharist is the body and blood of Christ despite me believing that hes present grow spiritually.

I've seen myself personally grow spiritually as a baby Christian who rejected the divinity of Christ and believed in works salvation, grow spiritually and into the Calvinist I am today. (it took about two years for God to remove these horrible beliefs from me but, he did without me ever going to Christ ever again and being born again twice)

Obviously it matters that we come to Christ with the right repentance and motives, it matters whether or not we live in sin, it matters whether or not we listen to the Bible and grow from the Bible. But does it really matter if you believe in eternal security or you dont? Or if you believe in Arminianism or Calvinism? Especially when I've personally seen Arminians grow spiritually and have seen my own spiritual growth and have seen Calvinists grow as well?

Here's another question. How can Abraham have uncountable descendants as numerous as the stars if doctrine really mattered? How could John have seen these descendants in heaven and confirm that the elect are in fact, an uncountable number? Probably billions and billions of people from only 6,000 years of history?

Either doctrine doesnt matter or I'm seriously missing something. I know Paul said that doctrine does matter but dont forget the heresies popping into his church back then and today. Many "Christians" are claiming to be such and live in sin with no conscience or care. They listen to these preachers who tell them they dont need Jesus to be saved. I'm not talking about THAT doctrine. I'm talking about Arminianism vs Calvinism here. Or Christian's that follow no denomination but the Bible sho grow spiritually each and everyday. I'm sorry but spiritual growth = Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit = salvation.

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JacksBratt said:

What "religion" did Jesus teach?

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JacksBratt said:

what Christ taught

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JacksBratt said:

The term "Christian" is based on those that follow the teaching of Christ. It's not a religion.. it's a change from being bound by sin to being free from sin.

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pescador said:

A truly outstanding and totally correct post!

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Scott Husted said:

Love matters, the rest is inconsequential.

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Tone said:

What He taught was true religion,which is the fulfillment of Torah (loving one another).



He taught the true religion.

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JacksBratt said:

You can believe what you like..

Personally.. I believe it is religions that spoils everything.

Religions usually mean you have to do this, do that, say this, say that.... blah blah blah.

Religion is do do do.

With Christ its Done! period.

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Tone said:

Yes, I agree, false religion has to go.

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JacksBratt said:

Yes, I agree.. however, you will get a lot of people arguing over what is false religion... right?

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JacksBratt said:

I don't mean to pick but.. even non believers "love"...
You can love yourself. Love evil. Love a food. Love a sport. Love a car. Love anything.

So, I hope you mean love for righteousness and Love for God and love for one another in a selfless serving way.

IMO that is what Christ taught. Along with accepting that we are in need of repentance from our sins and acceptance of Him first and foremost.

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pescador said:

So you're in favor of persecution to "weed out" certain Christians? Have you decided to martyr yourself to show your loyalty to God? If not, why not?

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Michael Collum said:

Not especially in favor. I was simply explaining that this is the only thing that will bring the church Jesus is building together at the current time.

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Neostarwcc said:

This is a genuine question with genuine reasoning. I'm asking this question because I've seen Christian's across both Arminianism and Calvinism grow spiritually. I've seen people who believe partially between the two grow spiritually. I've even seen my own wife who still believes the eucharist is the body and blood of Christ despite me believing that hes present grow spiritually.

I've seen myself personally grow spiritually as a baby Christian who rejected the divinity of Christ and believed in works salvation, grow spiritually and into the Calvinist I am today. (it took about two years for God to remove these horrible beliefs from me but, he did without me ever going to Christ ever again and being born again twice)

Obviously it matters that we come to Christ with the right repentance and motives, it matters whether or not we live in sin, it matters whether or not we listen to the Bible and grow from the Bible. But does it really matter if you believe in eternal security or you dont? Or if you believe in Arminianism or Calvinism? Especially when I've personally seen Arminians grow spiritually and have seen my own spiritual growth and have seen Calvinists grow as well?

Here's another question. How can Abraham have uncountable descendants as numerous as the stars if doctrine really mattered? How could John have seen these descendants in heaven and confirm that the elect are in fact, an uncountable number? Probably billions and billions of people from only 6,000 years of history?

Either doctrine doesnt matter or I'm seriously missing something. I know Paul said that doctrine does matter but dont forget the heresies popping into his church back then and today. Many "Christians" are claiming to be such and live in sin with no conscience or care. They listen to these preachers who tell them they dont need Jesus to be saved. I'm not talking about THAT doctrine. I'm talking about Arminianism vs Calvinism here. Or Christian's that follow no denomination but the Bible sho grow spiritually each and everyday. I'm sorry but spiritual growth = Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit = salvation.

Click to expand...

Neostarwcc said:

I'm talking about Arminianism vs Calvinism here. Or Christian's that follow no denomination but the Bible sho grow spiritually each and everyday. I'm sorry but spiritual growth = Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit = salvation.

Click to expand...