Controlling the tongue and spiritual growth

Pavel Mosko

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James 1:26 ►
"Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless."



Many see the passages of the epistle of James in a negative light (It goes on and on the power of people to hurt each other with their speech etc.) I actually see the above passage positively, that is to say the Existential decision to day by day to govern your speech and your overall disposition towards others actually lends credibility to your testimony of Faith, and if you want a way to grow in the Fruit of Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) one of the most immediate ways to do so, is to do your best to exercise self control, compassion etc. at those times when you are most tempted to respond back to others who have slighted you in like kind.


Cartoon tongue pic.jpg
 

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James 1:26 ►
"Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless."



Many see the passages of the epistle of James in a negative light (It goes on and on the power of people to hurt each other with their speech etc.) I actually see the above passage positively, that is to say the Existential decision to day by day to govern your speech and your overall disposition towards others actually lends credibility to your testimony of Faith, and if you want a way to grow in the Fruit of Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) one of the most immediate ways to do so, is to do your best to exercise self control, compassion etc. at those times when you are most tempted to respond back to others who have slighted you in like kind.


View attachment 278081

This is a good point for all of us Christians to constantly ponder and apply. However, what might it mean for us to connect James 1:29 with James 1:19-20? What exactly is the "human wrath" that James is referring to? I don't think that what we read in this passage as we find it in our modern English translations is particularly self-evident; it's not so clear as to what James is denoting and that to which he further implies whereby we need to "reign in the tongue" in the verse that you've selected, Pavel.

Maybe we should vet out the inherent meanings that are embedded in the passage, at least as it flows from James 1:19 through James 1:27?

Great post, bro! It's all something we need to account for, that's for sure. And I'm sure it's something I need to remind myself of to some extent as well. :p
 
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Pavel Mosko

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What exactly is the "human wrath"

Well the Greek lexicon is Orge, the basic word we get for orgy, but it actually is a more general word for a fiery passion, especially anger. Interesting how it became more sexualized by us later.

I often like checking the Aramaic/ Hebrew equivalents since I think the original writers were often thinking in those terms. It seems like that basic translation holds up when switching to the Aramaic NT, which isn't surprising. (Most of the time, it does the topic of love being the most noticeable exception. Lots of people read a lot into agape and phileo while the Hebraic idea of love is much more general and less specific.)
 
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icxn

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Well the Greek lexicon is Orge, the basic word we get for orgy, but it actually is a more general word for a fiery passion, especially anger. Interesting how it became more sexualized by us later.
They are not related, even though they only differ in one letter. Οργή is anger. Όργια refers to the secret rites used to worship certain Greek Gods, which probably included sexual acts. Etymologically it comes from ὀργάς, a well-watered, fertile spot of land, where a lot of these rites used to take place.
 
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Well the Greek lexicon is Orge, the basic word we get for orgy, but it actually is a more general word for a fiery passion, especially anger. Interesting how it became more sexualized by us later.

I often like checking the Aramaic/ Hebrew equivalents since I think the original writers were often thinking in those terms. It seems like that basic translation holds up when switching to the Aramaic NT, which isn't surprising. (Most of the time, it does the topic of love being the most noticeable exception. Lots of people read a lot into agape and phileo while the Hebraic idea of love is much more general and less specific.)

That's a decent starting point, brother Pavel. But let's do some additional hermeneutical analysis of this verse you've selected and see if we can cull out the specific implications that James seems to want us to pay attention to. Let's ask the additional questions: What specific human speech acts is James referring to in verse 1:26? Just moderate expressions of typical human anger, or something else? :cool:
 
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Pavel Mosko

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What specific human speech acts is James referring to in verse 1:26? Just moderate expressions of typical human anger, or something else? :cool:

:) Ah good point, I think that might even qualify as a Socratic question. :)

I suspect, given what I know about the rest of the the NT that gossip, back biting and complaining might be what he had in mind. And other kinds of scheming, factions, dissensions, schisms and rivalries also included in that.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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:) Ah good point, I think that might even qualify as a Socratic question. :)
That could be, but I wasn't really aiming for that form of illocution. I just want to kind of move this thread of yours forward since it's a good one. ;)

I suspect, given what I know about the rest of the the NT that gossip, back biting and complaining might be what he had in mind. And other kinds of scheming, factions, dissensions, schisms and rivalries also included in that.
I would suspect that, too, but in the case of James, I think we can just stick with the letter of James to try to figure out what James is most specifically referring to.

I like the fact that the first thing you did was to consider the original language structure of the verse you've selected. That is one of the interpretive actions we should all consider since there isn't necessarily an exacting one-to-translation of words or ideas between languages, especially between an ancient language that is no longer in use and a modern one that is still an active convention.

What other interpretive factors should we maybe recognize in order to bring out the connotations that James states in his letter about those things pertaining to the tongue that we as Christians should be reigning in?
 
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Pavel Mosko

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What other interpretive factors should we maybe recognize in order to bring out the connotations that James states in his letter about those things pertaining to the tongue that we as Christians should be reigning in?

Well I have been using and plugging "The Bible Project", which gives these nice little animated comic book Cliff note summaries and analysis of to all the various books of the Bible as well as other kinds of Lexicon concepts etc.




In reading and rereading the book, I actually think he is getting at what I was getting at. In Chapter 3 he talks about "taming the tongue" at length comparing it to bridling a horse, or having a rudder on a ship. And how our behavior should exemplify the fruit of spirit etc.


But given what he talks about the poor immediately in the next chapter. It really looks like there was some double mindedness going on with the poor in the congregation. In culture, it was recognized that you should be take care of the poor in various ways, but given human nature I think the poor were sometimes treated with contempt (as irritants, burdens etc.), or obvious favoritism was given to rich people for business and personal reasons of various church goes (so they get favors, business etc.). So in that regard, they might not have been much better than the Pharisees who did similar kind of things (they gave their parents support as offerings, and liked to give very public offerings which I believe were sometimes done as a commercial advertisements of them their business, or whatever position in society or the synagogue they were competing for).


Anyone some of this might have something to do with the famous Raca passage regarding "fools being in danger of hellfire". But some of the etymology on that word, actually seems to come from spitting. Spitting was a common way of showing contempt for that society, and we even sometimes do that (especially in watching western movies, with people chewing tobacco etc.) But there is a passages in the OT at showing contempt for God by showing contempt for the poor since he is their Maker.



Besides that their were obvious issues of quarreling in the church (some of which even have lead to murder). Where their fights came about "from the battles that were waged in their heart".



PS - All of this also caused me to look at the language of the Beatitudes (again that is). Poor in spirit, mostly being thought of as a euphemism for humility, although this one Jewish encyclopedia I saw seemed to indicate it had a specific kind of connotation or origin for 2nd temple Judaism, mentioned in some Qumram scrolls etc.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Well I have been using and plugging "The Bible Project", which gives these nice little animated comic book Cliff note summaries and analysis of to all the various books of the Bible as well as other kinds of Lexicon concepts etc.

Oh, I love the Bible Project. That's an awesome choice, Pavel, and I hadn't seen that one yet. I'm watching in now... :oldthumbsup:

In reading and rereading the book, I actually think he is getting at what I was getting at. In Chapter 3 he talks about "taming the tongue" at length comparing it to bridling a horse, or having a rudder on a ship. And how our behavior should exemplify the fruit of spirit etc.


But given what he talks about the poor immediately in the next chapter. It really looks like there was some double mindedness going on with the poor in the congregation. In culture, it was recognized that you should be take care of the poor in various ways, but given human nature I think the poor were sometimes treated with contempt (as irritants, burdens etc.), or obvious favoritism was given to rich people for business and personal reasons of various church goes (so they get favors, business etc.). So in that regard, they might not have been much better than the Pharisees who did similar kind of things (they gave their parents support as offerings, and liked to give very public offerings which I believe were sometimes done as a commercial advertisements of them their business, or whatever position in society or the synagogue they were competing for).


Anyone some of this might have something to do with the famous Raca passage regarding "fools being in danger of hellfire". But some of the etymology on that word, actually seems to come from spitting. Spitting was a common way of showing contempt for that society, and we even sometimes do that (especially in watching western movies, with people chewing tobacco etc.) But there is a passages in the OT at showing contempt for God by showing contempt for the poor since he is their Maker.



Besides that their were obvious issues of quarreling in the church (some of which even have lead to murder). Where their fights came about "from the battles that were waged in their heart".



PS - All of this also caused me to look at the language of the Beatitudes (again that is). Poor in spirit, mostly being thought of as a euphemism for humility, although this one Jewish encyclopedia I saw seemed to indicate it had a specific kind of connotation or origin for 2nd temple Judaism, mentioned in some Qumram scrolls etc.

Well, I'd say you pretty much covered the essentials of what I would have tried to get to. Excellent work, bro! I'm going to have to read it again and take it all in. Thanks for that post! :cool:

For the life of me, I just can't imagine mistreating and spitting on folks poorer than myself or slightly different than myself. In fact, the whole idea of doing so seems despicable to me when I think about ....
 
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