Why do people hate the Seventh Day Adventists?

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dqhall

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It's alleged that EGW & SDA's believe Satan bears our sins:

SDA teaching Satan will bear all of our sins - Yahoo Search Results
The theory of a scapegoat taking away the sins of the people is from the Hebrew Bible. It is in the Torah. Anyone reading the Bible might find it. I read the Bible through a couple of times, then started reading individual books and verses.

During the 80’s I attended some SDA church services as I was working with a crew managed by Seventh Day Adventists. I remember them talking about the end times, Daniel and Revelation. I did not understand it, but did not think they were worshipping Satan. They are much into health food. Many of them are vegan or vegetarian. They are thinner because they desired to learn good nutrition.
 
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BobRyan

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It's alleged that EGW & SDA's believe Satan bears our sins:

SDA teaching Satan will bear all of our sins - Yahoo Search Results

Adventists teach that Satan bears the guilt for his role in tempting the saints to sin and that this guilt is "not the same" level of guilt as tempting members of his own kingdom to sin.

The claim is that Satan does have some right to claim that the free will choice of his own servants should not be entirely left on his shoulders as if he made them choose.
 
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BobRyan

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The theory of a scapegoat taking away the sins of the people is from the Hebrew Bible. It is in the Torah. .

Lev 16 shows that it does have a part in the Day of Atonement as you point out -- but "the sin offering" is always a burnt offering and the scapegoat is not slain - it is not a sin offering. So when Lev 16 refers to "the goat of the sin offering" it is only the "Lord's goat" (Messiah) never the scapegoat.

The scapegoat does not die an atoning substitutionary death at all ... in fact it does not die according to Lev 16 -- it is simply "led away" out of the camp.
 
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Der Alte

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On YouTube I watched how the SDA are a cult. According to my dictionary there is nothing wrong with being a cult.
Here the SDA defends itself: .
..
I don't hate SDA but I do think they have some false beliefs. Back when Ike was president, I was mid-teens, both my parents were hospitalized. I came home from school one day and some people took us away. I was fostered for several months with a SDA family. They were very strict about the Sabbath other than that it was like living with almost any other family.
 
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dqhall

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Lev 16 shows that it does have a part in the Day of Atonement as you point out -- but "the sin offering" is always a burnt offering and the scapegoat is not slain - it is not a sin offering. So when Lev 16 refers to "the goat of the sin offering" it is only the "Lord's goat" (Messiah) never the scapegoat.
If you read further, you might find the Biblical story of the goat that bore their sins and carried them away to the wilderness. This is the “scapegoat.”

Leviticus 16:20 (WEB public domain) “When he has finished atoning for the Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting, and the altar, he shall present the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, even all their sins; and he shall put them on the head of the goat, and shall send him away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is ready. 22 The goat shall carry all their iniquities on himself to a solitary land, and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
 
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BobRyan

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If you read further, you might find the Biblical story of the goat that bore their sins and carried them away to the wilderness. This is the “scapegoat.”

Yes I agree - it is not slain as a substitutionary atoning sacrifice .. rather it is "led away".

It is illustrating the point that in the Gospel - not all are saved, not all are forgiven and the atoning sacrifice is not applied to their sins -- their sins go some place else.

Leviticus 16:20 (WEB public domain) “When he has finished atoning for the Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting, and the altar, he shall present the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, even all their sins; and he shall put them on the head of the goat, and shall send him away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is ready. 22 The goat shall carry all their iniquities on himself to a solitary land, and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
 
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BobRyan

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I don't hate SDA but I do think they have some false beliefs.

It is true that between almost every denomination there are "some doctrinal differences".. and I agree with you - I don't know why this thread title is using the term "hate". I don't agree with every single doctrine of every single Christian denomination in the world - but that does not mean "I hate those that are members of the denominations"

There is a way to have discussion about doctrinal differences without using terms like "hate". I think the OP is also questioning the idea that hating people should even be included in the discussion of doctrinal differences.
 
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dqhall

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Yes I agree - it is not slain as a substitutionary atoning sacrifice .. rather it is "led away".

It is illustrating the point that in the Gospel - not all are saved, not all are forgiven and the atoning sacrifice is not applied to their sins -- their sins go some place else.

Leviticus 16:20 (WEB public domain) “When he has finished atoning for the Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting, and the altar, he shall present the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, even all their sins; and he shall put them on the head of the goat, and shall send him away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is ready. 22 The goat shall carry all their iniquities on himself to a solitary land, and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
John preached people should repent of their sins in order to gain forgiveness. Jesus was against the temple sacrifices. He turned over the tables of the money changers and those who sold sacrifices. He quoted Hosea 6:6, “I desire mercy and not sacrifice.”
 
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BobRyan

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John preached people should repent of their sins in order to gain forgiveness. Jesus was against the temple sacrifices. He turned over the tables of the money changers and those who sold sacrifices. He quoted Hosea 6:6, “I desire mercy and not sacrifice.”

The theft and sin of turning the sanctuary courts into "a den of thieves" was not the OT design - it was the result of sinful man taking over the house of God. So yes Jesus was against that -- but he was not against scripture - what He called "the Word of God " in Mark 7:6-13
 
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dqhall

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The theft and sin of turning the sanctuary courts into "a den of thieves" was not the OT design - it was the result of sinful man taking over the house of God. So yes Jesus was against that -- but he was not against scripture - what He called "the Word of God " in Mark 7:6-13
Christians outlawed animal sacrifice cults. Killing a bull and burning it will not take away sins.
 
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BobRyan

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Christians outlawed animal sacrifice cults. Killing a bull and burning it will not take away sins.

God's Word is always true, traditions of man not so much.
See Mark 7:6-13.

All animal sacrifice and offerings in the Bible ceased at the cross according to Hebrews 10:4-12
 
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Dale

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EGW wrote over and over that we are saved by grace---

The mother is God’s agent to Christianize her family. She is to exemplify Biblical religion, showing how its influence is to control us in its everyday duties and pleasures, teaching her children that by grace alone can they be saved, through faith, which is the gift of God. This constant teaching as to what Christ is to us and to them, His love, His goodness, His mercy, revealed in the great plan of redemption, will make a hallowed, sacred impress on the heart.14
The Review and Herald, September 15, 1891.
Therefore there is no occasion for one to glory over 402another or to grudge against another. No one is privileged above another, nor can anyone claim the reward as a right. {COL 401.0}

Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 402.1
The first and the last are to be sharers in the great, eternal reward, and the first should gladly welcome the last. He who grudges the reward to another forgets that he himself is saved by grace alone. The parable of the laborers rebukes all jealousy and suspicion. Love rejoices in the truth and institutes no envious comparisons. He who possesses love compares only the loveliness of Christ and his own imperfect character.
{COL 402.1}
While we are to be in harmony with God’s law, we are not saved by the works of the law,FW 95.3


We absolutely do not deny the Trinity.
There are biblical reasons for believing that Michael and Christ are the same, so we are not the only denomination to think so.

Read Leviticus 16 about the ritual of the scapegoat, instituted by God Himself.

Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Lev 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

On the day of atonement 2 goats were brought to the High Priest. One represented Christ and was sacrificed and the blood used to cleanse the tabernacle of sins---

Lev 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The scapegoat represents Satan---There is absolutely no attack on the cross, nor can there be when came from God Himself!

The blood of Jesus forgives our sins-they are placed on Satan and he pays the final penalty for those sins----which seems only fair as he is the root cause of all sin.



Sparbud: "We absolutely do not deny the Trinity."

By "we," Sparbud means the SDA.


Yet the history of the SDA on the Trinity is confusing at best. Founding prophetess Ellen White absolutely did not use the word "Trinity" in Conflict of the Ages, the five volume work that is her definitive theological book. Her husband, Elder White, was a known anti-Trinitarian and so were many of her other associates.


SDA's have told me that she talked about "the three." I've checked and can find no place where she ever used the word "three" with a theological meaning.

If there SDA church upholds the Trinity today, their Founder did not. What sense does that make?
 
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BobRyan

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Sparbud: "We absolutely do not deny the Trinity."

By "we," Sparbud means the SDA.

agreed.



Yet the history of the SDA on the Trinity is confusing at best

Not if you look at every single one of the published statements of faith that they published. Not a single one of them has any doctrine about God that is not fully consistent with the Trinitarian view they still have in published doctrinal statements of belief to this very day.

. Founding prophetess Ellen White absolutely did not use the word "Trinity"

1. She called the Holy Spirit "the THIRD PERSON of the Godhead" -- I don't know a single non-trinitarian that does that.... do you???

2. She was born and raised United Methodist... Trinitarian.

This is the easy part in my view.
 
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mmksparbud

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Sparbud: "We absolutely do not deny the Trinity."

By "we," Sparbud means the SDA.


Yet the history of the SDA on the Trinity is confusing at best. Founding prophetess Ellen White absolutely did not use the word "Trinity" in Conflict of the Ages, the five volume work that is her definitive theological book. Her husband, Elder White, was a known anti-Trinitarian and so were many of her other associates.


SDA's have told me that she talked about "the three." I've checked and can find no place where she ever used the word "three" with a theological meaning.

If there SDA church upholds the Trinity today, their Founder did not. What sense does that make?

If you read the writings of EGW for yourself and not take everyone's word for what we believe you would know that is not true. At the very start --there were no SDA, it was a group of many denominations that got together to study the bible, they had no 7th day sabbath yet and many things they were studying to seek the truth of the bible by the bible. It took a while for them to get evrything figured out. By the time that they organized intio a church things had drstically changed from the very beginning. As for the "3" she may not say it that way---but the Father, Son and H9kly Spirit being God was very much in her writings. I've read myself for years, yes, her husband and some others at first did not, but they eventually did come around to it. It is simply not true that she was against it, We were trinitarian from the start of us being offcially a church which wasn't until around 1866---thereabouts. Even the bible does not say Trinity, and there is only one verse that lumps them together, Matt. 28:19. It was thought for many, many years, by several denominations, that this was added on later. however, all 3 are mentioned in that verse as far back as before the Nicene Creed, so that theory is not accepted by most scholars now. But that is why there are non-trinitarians. EGW quotes from this verse in Acts of the Apostles 28:2---I tried to copy but I can't remember how to enable the copy button and it won't let me. She mentions all 3 at various times and was definitely a Trinitarian.
 
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Junia

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I wasn't aware of any particular hatred towards the SDA. I have heard the JWS are supposedly akin to them in certain doctrinal ways and that JWS are extremely disliked. But as for SDA themselves? Never heard of that.

nor me. i dont keep a proper shabbat and i dont know many christians who do. i am pretty sure we still all one in Christ if we are saved by Him, so it is not an issue which should cause strife. it is sad whe christians start hating on one another. we cannot agree on everything! as long as we agree that Jesus is our LORD and Saviour, that is what matters
 
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Junia

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As with just about every religion, there are some SDA that end up zeroing in on an issue and stay there, totally absorbed by it. There are what I term "militant" SDA who do get very vocal and very much "in your face" about them being right. This is a fault of their personality, not of the religion. It wouldn't matter what religion they were, they would act the same, for it is they that are right.

Regarding the Catholics—Brethren, I feel hurt when I see that so many decided thrusts are made against the Catholics. Preach the truth, but restrain the words which show a harsh spirit; for such words cannot help or enlighten anyone. Letter 20, 1896. {CW 64.3}Letter 20, 1896.
We should not, upon entering a place, build up unnecessary barriers between us and other denominations, especially the Catholics, so that they think we are their avowed enemies. We should not create a prejudice in their minds unnecessarily, by making a raid upon them. There are many among the Catholics who live up to the light they have far better than many who claim to believe present truth, and God will just as surely test and prove them as He has tested and proved us.—Manuscript 14, 1887. {Ev 144.1}

Every single church believes they have the truth, or they would not be a separate denomination. As to being only SDA's are saved--that is absolutely not trueThe knowledge of God as revealed in Christ is the knowledge that all who are saved must have. This is the knowledge that works transformation of character. Received into the life, it will re-create the soul in the image of Christ. This is the knowledge that God invites His children to receive, beside which all else is vanity and nothingness. {AA 475.1
Here is declared the same truth that Jesus had revealed to Nicodemus when He said, “Except a man be born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

Not by seeking a holy mountain or a sacred temple are men brought into communion with heaven. Religion is not to be confined to external forms and ceremonies. The religion that comes from God is the only religion that will lead to God. In order to serve Him aright, we must be born of the divine Spirit. This will purify the heart and renew the mind, giving us a new capacity for knowing and loving God. It will give us a willing obedience to all His requirements. This is true worship. It is the fruit of the working of the Holy Spirit. By the Spirit every sincere prayer is indited, and such prayer is acceptable to God. Wherever a soul reaches out after God, there the Spirit’s working is manifest, and God will reveal Himself to that soul. For such worshipers He is seeking. He waits to receive them, and to make them His sons and daughters. {DA 189.2}

i did have an SDA lady come up to me in the street once, and gave me a pamphlet about her church and told me ihad to keep sabbath or go to hell. it did affect me for a while because i was weak in my faith and it had me doubting i was truly saved. so i wasnt happy about that. but hate? no way. i know too little about them to hate them.
 
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Junia

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[Staff edit]

edit: would love to see a source suggesting the Inquisition stopped people from worshipping on Saturday who weren't actually Catholic.

sorry but i love the floating dog meme thingy on your posts! just had to tell you that
 
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mmksparbud

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i did have an SDA lady come up to me in the street once, and gave me a pamphlet about her church and told me ihad to keep sabbath or go to hell. it did affect me for a while because i was weak in my faith and it had me doubting i was truly saved. so i wasnt happy about that. but hate? no way. i know too little about them to hate them.


Good grief!! I know of no SDA who would say such a thing. I am sure there are some, we call them "militant SDA!" It's not true and we do not believe all Sunday worshipers will go to hell, that's silly. It is only the mark of the beast when it becomes a law and then we are faced with the question---do we follow the law of man or the law of God. I said earlier, my best friend of over 30 years now, is Catholic She has a mouth like an old sailor, can't say a whole sentence without cussing! We do not have to agree with everything to like each other. Nobody's perfect. I just pray one day the God Lord will clean her mouth up!
 
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Dale

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EGW wrote over and over that we are saved by grace---

The mother is God’s agent to Christianize her family. She is to exemplify Biblical religion, showing how its influence is to control us in its everyday duties and pleasures, teaching her children that by grace alone can they be saved, through faith, which is the gift of God. This constant teaching as to what Christ is to us and to them, His love, His goodness, His mercy, revealed in the great plan of redemption, will make a hallowed, sacred impress on the heart.14
The Review and Herald, September 15, 1891.
Therefore there is no occasion for one to glory over 402another or to grudge against another. No one is privileged above another, nor can anyone claim the reward as a right. {COL 401.0}

Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 402.1
The first and the last are to be sharers in the great, eternal reward, and the first should gladly welcome the last. He who grudges the reward to another forgets that he himself is saved by grace alone. The parable of the laborers rebukes all jealousy and suspicion. Love rejoices in the truth and institutes no envious comparisons. He who possesses love compares only the loveliness of Christ and his own imperfect character.
{COL 402.1}
While we are to be in harmony with God’s law, we are not saved by the works of the law,FW 95.3


We absolutely do not deny the Trinity.
There are biblical reasons for believing that Michael and Christ are the same, so we are not the only denomination to think so.

Read Leviticus 16 about the ritual of the scapegoat, instituted by God Himself.

Lev 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Lev 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
Lev 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
Lev 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

On the day of atonement 2 goats were brought to the High Priest. One represented Christ and was sacrificed and the blood used to cleanse the tabernacle of sins---

Lev 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:
Lev 16:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The scapegoat represents Satan---There is absolutely no attack on the cross, nor can there be when came from God Himself!

The blood of Jesus forgives our sins-they are placed on Satan and he pays the final penalty for those sins----which seems only fair as he is the root cause of all sin.



Sparbud in post #40: "Read Leviticus 16 about the ritual of the scapegoat, instituted by God Himself."

Also: "The scapegoat represents Satan---There is absolutely no attack on the cross, nor can there be when came from God Himself! "



Why would anyone think that the scapegoat is Satan??? Commentators have always seen the scapegoat in Leviticus 16 as prefiguring Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

John Gill on Leviticus 16:5, the first verse to mention the setting aside of two young goats, one for a burnt offering and the other to become the scapegoat:

"... a type of Christ ... the burnt offering following by way of thanksgiving for atonement made by the sin offering graciously accepted by the Lord."

John Gill on Leviticus 16:7, on why there are two goats:

"... the number of these goats was two, typical either of the two natures in Christ; his divine nature, in which he is impassable, and lives for ever, which may be signified by the goat presented alive and let go; and his human nature, in which he suffered and died, and may be fitly represented by the goat that was slain; or else of the two estates of Christ before and after his resurrection, his being put to death in the flesh and quickened in the Spirit; or rather this may signify the twofold consideration of Christ as Mediator, one with respect to his divine Father, to whom he made satisfaction by his death; and the other with respect to Satan, with whom he conflicted in life, and to whose power he was so far delivered up, as not only to be tempted, and harassed by him, but through his instigation to be brought to the dust of death ..."

Also: "... these two goats, according to the Jewish writers, were to be alike in sight or colour, in stature and in value, and to be taken together: Christ, the antitype of them, is the same dying and rising ... "

John Gill on Leviticus 16:10, connecting both young goats to Jesus Christ and the cross:

"...and upon the cross, when he submitted to the death of it; during which time he had the sins of all his people on him, and made an end of them, so as to be seen no more ... since the living goat had all the sins of the people on him, and was reckoned so impure, that he that led him into the wilderness stood in need of washing and cleansing, ( Leviticus 16:21 Leviticus 16:26 ) ; whereas, when Christ was raised from the dead, he was clear of all sin ..."

John Gill interprets the scapegoat of Leviticus 16 as a "type of Christ," and the whole ritual as a foreshadowing of God's plan of redemption which we see in full in the Gospels.


See
Leviticus 16:5 - Commentary & Verse Meaning - Bible
Leviticus 16:7 - Commentary & Verse Meaning - Bible
Leviticus 16:10 - Commentary & Verse Meaning - Bible
 
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