Would say matter, yes! For salvation, no! I believe if we have the Holy Spirit we are saved. That goes for everyone. Some knowledge comes with receiving the Holy Spirit, so that knowledge is necessary (like Jesus has borne our sins).
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Does doctrine really matter?
- Thread starter Neostarwcc
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Would say matter, yes! For salvation, no! I believe if we have the Holy Spirit we are saved. That goes for everyone. Some knowledge comes with receiving the Holy Spirit, so that knowledge is necessary (like Jesus has borne our sins).
JIMINZ
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That is exactly what I was talking about, I never mentioned any specific Denomination, but you are defending yours as though it is the only Denomination with any truth because of it's Hierarchical structure, with it's Traditions, and Rituals.
My point is, Catholics won't go to a Baptist Church on a Sunday any more that a Pentecostal would go to a Catholic Church on a Sunday, everyone believes not only does their Denomination have the truth, but that all others DO NOT.
Jesus on the other hand started His Church, everyone calling themselves Christian belong to HIS Church, but because of certain Doctrines of Men, they have become Denominational towards each other.
Do you not know, "a House divided against itself cannot stand?"
Not until we begin to act as Brothers in HIS Church, we will remain divided.
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You are asking if truth matters! Yes, truth does matter! It is what separates Christianity from manmade religions. Within Christianity, it is what separates denominations from the one Church Jesus Christ founded, to which He promised "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Manmade denominations that have defected from His Church still retain a portion of His truth, and God can work through whatever truths they retain. However, the fullness of His grace and His truth is available only through His own Church. Truth cannot contradict truth, so we know that conflicting denominations necessarily mean untruth. What your wife believes is what every Christian on Earth believed until a few hundred years ago.
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Christ speaks on this point in Mark 7
Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
Paul addresses it this way
2 Thess 2
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
One could argue the point that the Jews rejected Christ because of false doctrine
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JIMINZ
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[QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 75043801, member: 235244"One could argue the point that the Jews rejected Christ because of false doctrine[/QUOTE]
If they did they would be wrong, the Jews rejected their Messiah Jesus because, God blinded them to the reality of who He actually was, they could not accept Him because , God had determined to take the Kingdom and Salvation from them and give it to the Gentile.
If they did they would be wrong, the Jews rejected their Messiah Jesus because, God blinded them to the reality of who He actually was, they could not accept Him because , God had determined to take the Kingdom and Salvation from them and give it to the Gentile.
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rnmomof7
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Basic Christian doctrine counts ...Thats why the creeds were written to assure that Christians share the fundamental truths of the faith ... The question then becomes where does one go from there?
If we say someone has no doctrine, but follows the Bible ..that can not be true.. what we are saying is he has devised. his own doctrine through his reading and personal understanding of the scriptures.
I too started out as a "professing" christian, repeating what I had been taught and taking it for granted it was true and right.. .
One day after having a theological debate with a calvinist.. Then when doing my bible study one day I realized that he was correct ...and became a firm believer in the sovereignty of God..
Is correct soteriological doctrine necessary for salvation .. no but it helps us to understand the character and nature of God and the character and nature of man ... The elect, Calvinist or Arminian are saved by Christ.. not their doctrine
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Jonaitis
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Doctrine plays a major role and importance to the faith, so to discredit and/or have a low view of it impacts the way you understand what you believe. Doctrine is important in informing us of God's character, purposes and will for our lives. Doctrine is most necessary in wanting to better know God. If you don't learn anything about God, you can't say you are close to God, you can't be close to something you're ignorant of. When you get to know someone better, you learn about their habits, their taste, their character, etc. The more you understand biblical doctrine, the better you get know the God you serve.
Christians should personally seek to learn doctrine that they may love God the more for what he reveals about himself.
You can't worship something you don't know.
Christians should personally seek to learn doctrine that they may love God the more for what he reveals about himself.
You can't worship something you don't know.
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Christ did not preach a religion.. or a doctrine... He live the gospel and it was recorded....
He taught to follow Him and His ways. To serve rather than to be served. He taught to not be a hypocrite...... He taught to be selfless. He taught to love the lord Your God with all your heart soul and mind.. He taught to treat everyone the way you would like them to treat you.
All religions and doctrines are the fabrication of men... mostly honest righteous men trying to perfect the way to worship and understand God....
However, none the less... still men.
There are errors in every Christian doctrine...
Start with accepting that you are a sinner and Christ is your only answer... Go from there.
Christ wanted a relationship... not religious pigeon holed concepts that separate us from one another.
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Doctrine matters when you have large groups of people congregating - otherwise, God is all that matters.
It matters when there's too many people because there's no way to avoid chaos and people being rude to one another due to inevitably extreme difference of opinion.
if there was a particular spiritual discipline that would separate those who believed and those who didn't so there would be peace - it would be used in every congregation. But it does not exist - so shibboleths of intellectual assent become the standard.
It matters when there's too many people because there's no way to avoid chaos and people being rude to one another due to inevitably extreme difference of opinion.
if there was a particular spiritual discipline that would separate those who believed and those who didn't so there would be peace - it would be used in every congregation. But it does not exist - so shibboleths of intellectual assent become the standard.
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Yes, he did.
You are trying to pretend that Jesus was merely a good moral teacher. He was so much more.
Jesus was God Himself, the Second Person of the Trinity, incarnate in human flesh.
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What "religion" did Jesus teach?
You cut out the part that showed that He was the Christ.... you know... where I said that He lived the gospel? In other words.. He was the messiah.
Why would you cut out part of what I said.. then tell me that I was saying something that I'm not?
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No offense... but how would having doctrine avoid the chaos and rudeness?
From what I see.. among Christians.. it is arguing over which doctrine is the right one that causes chaos and rudeness.
There actually is a spiritual discipline that separates those who believe from those who don't... Then... men and their "infinite wisdom" go and spoil it with doctrine that is supposed to define those that believe properly from those that are "incorrect" in their beliefs.....
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I mean, it would be worse that it is now. People having separate rooms, instead of grumbling in each other's faces since there's no room to breathe.
Or maybe it's just what we need, being forced together as one church again, but only one thing does that.
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Yes and no is the simple answer. Doctrines like Incarnation, Trinity, Redemption , Creation and Judgment are pretty basic to Christian understanding. Most Christians should be able to say the Nicene Creed but does minutae like the filoque clause matter. So personally I would suggest there is a foundation of basic doctrines that all Christians must share but beyond that it matters less and we probably need to be more flexible and tolerant. We should all be able to walk into Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox or Pentecostal churches and recognise the same Jesus that unites all Christians in His Body the church
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You get some from time to time bless their heart asking you about your denomination and doctrine. Then wow all the *ISM out there. Oh yeah if your not in the right club *ISM.. well the LOVE of Jesus just shines 
lets say.
Doctrine. Easy to say "the right one matters".. oh which/whos? So many use the same bible.. odd and some use the same verses. There is a truth ..work out your own salvation. What ever group or man you wish to follow/believe. You only get what they personally believe and know. Wise to search and look ask listen but.. at some point we need to find Him on our own.
lets say. Doctrine. Easy to say "the right one matters".. oh which/whos? So many use the same bible.. odd and some use the same verses. There is a truth ..work out your own salvation. What ever group or man you wish to follow/believe. You only get what they personally believe and know. Wise to search and look ask listen but.. at some point we need to find Him on our own.
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Duke of Stratford
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I think doctrine is important, but, like you say, it isn’t what saves you. It helps you learn more about God, think critically about Biblical principles, and guides your Christian walk (provided it aligns with Scripture, of course).
Speaking as someone who is only recently learning more about theology and doctrine, a lot of folks tend to put too much emphasis on what most Christians consider nonessential doctrine, and it often leads to pride and legalistic behavior. In reality, we all have fallible human brains and we can’t get theology or doctrine 100% right. Both Calvinism and Arminianism are theological systems that seek to answer something I’m not sure any of us can fully understand. It’s okay to say, “I don’t know the answer,” even if you align heavily with one or the other. We can’t understand God fully. I see so many people on CF who are deathly afraid and overwhelmed because people throw doctrine in their face without grace or humility. It ends up hindering spiritual growth, not fostering it.
I think you’re onto something important. Perfect doctrine isn’t a prerequisite to spiritual growth. There are a lot of people with solid, well-researched doctrine who aren’t very loving and gracious. Showing love and growing in Christ are the most important things, and you don’t need doctrinal perfection to do it. We grow one step at a time, all of us in different ways. Doctrine is good, but it should never take away from that.
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Paul says that is the work of the devil -
2 Cor 4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God
By contrast God was heart broken
Matt 23
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"
Ezek 18
30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord God. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord God. “Therefore, repent and live.”
Luke 7
30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
31 “To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like? 32 They are like children who sit in the market place and call to one another, and they say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.’ 33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”
1 Tim 4:16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you
Rom 10 "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"
John 6 "My words are spirit AND are LIFE"
Matt 4 "Man does not live by bread alone but by every WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God"
John 8:32 "you shall know the TRUTH and the Truth shall set you free"
2 Tim 3: 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus
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ChristianGirl_96
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Yes of course. However it is how we ultimately choose to interpret it that counts. It is not what saves you. Rather, I see it as a good thing but it is not all or nothing. It is only one slice of the pie in my opinion.
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