‘Vicious dogs and ominous weapons’

Paulos23 · Jun 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Their grievances are easily remedied: Stop breaking the law and things will get better!

When I stopped speeding the cops stopped giving me tickets. Who knew?

So nothing, you don't want to address their grievances at all.

And you wonder why the protest.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2020

RocksInMyHead said:
Who are you referring to here?

I'm referring to their "grievances", not to them.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2020

Paulos23 said:
So nothing, you don't want to address their grievances at all.

Law breaking lies at the root of their grievances, as well as other behaviors that are harmful to them.

Paulos23 · Jun 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Law breaking lies at the root of their grievances, as well as other behaviors that are harmful to them.

No, it is the fact the 'law' has been used against them even when they are lawful.

Why obey a law that not applied equally? Or is meant to keep you in your place?

Aldebaran · Jun 1, 2020

Paulos23 said:
So nothing, you don't want to address their grievances at all.

And you wonder why the protest.

You mean breaking more laws, such as the ones against robbery, arson, assault, etc. will address their grievances? Is doing those things seriously expected to make people see those in the black community more favorably?

I highly doubt when this is all over, anyone is going to say, "I used to not like black people. They always seemed so angry and violent and they seemed to commit crimes all the time. But then they started hundreds of buildings on fire, threw bricks at people in vehicles that were passing by, and even dragged people out of their car after blocking the road, and then proceeded to beat the person in the head until he bled to death, and that's when I decided that black people are better than I gave them credit for, and now I see them as equals".

Nope! All these riots are doing is reinforcing any stereotypes that already existed, probably cementing them in place for at least another generation.

RocksInMyHead · Jun 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Law breaking lies at the root of their grievances, as well as other behaviors that are harmful to them.

No, it doesn't. Under no circumstances should I expect to be murdered by law enforcement for a misdemeanor crime.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2020

Paulos23 said:
No, it is the fact the 'law' has been used against them even when they are lawful.

Why obey a law that not applied equally? Or is meant to keep you in your place?

They have to live with their choices. Sadly so does everyone else.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2020

RocksInMyHead said:
No, it doesn't. Under no circumstances should I expect to be murdered by law enforcement for a misdemeanor crime.

I don't think Mr. Floyd met his death for a misdemeanor crime. News at eleven.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2020

Aldebaran said:
You mean breaking more laws, such as the ones against robbery, arson, assault, etc. will address their grievances? Is doing those things seriously expected to make people see those in the black community more favorably?

I highly doubt when this is all over, anyone is going to say, "I used to not like black people. They always seemed so angry and violent and they seemed to commit crimes all the time. But then they started hundreds of buildings on fire, threw bricks at people in vehicles that were passing by, and even dragged people out of their car after blocking the road, and then proceeded to beat the person in the head until he bled to death, and that's when I decided that black people are better than I gave them credit for, and now I see them as equals".

Nope! All these riots are doing is reinforcing any stereotypes that already existed, probably cementing them in place for at least another generation.

Aldebaran · Jun 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
I don't think Mr. Floyd met his death for a misdemeanor crime. New at eleven.

Just like with the Rodney King case, we probably won't know everything until there's a trial where all the evidence comes out. Even back then when there were no cell phones or internet or bodycams, there was still someone there with a camcorder that caught enough of what happened that told the rest of the story. Today, we know there were police body cameras that will reveal what really happened--up to 4 of them.

cow451 · Jun 1, 2020

Aldebaran said:
Just like with the Rodney King case, we probably won't know everything until there's a trial where all the evidence comes out. Even back then when there were no cell phones or internet or bodycams, there was still someone there with a camcorder that caught enough of what happened that told the rest of the story. Today, we know there were police body cameras that will reveal what really happened--up to 4 of them.

.... cops have been known ---"shockingly" --- to turn of body cams.

RocksInMyHead · Jun 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
I don't think Mr. Floyd met his death for a misdemeanor crime. News at eleven.

But Eric Garner did. Breonna Taylor and Botham Jean met theirs for no crime at all. And I don't expect to get murdered by law enforcement for anything short of actively trying to kill them first.

Aldebaran said:
Just like with the Rodney King case, we probably won't know everything until there's a trial where all the evidence comes out. Even back then when there were no cell phones or internet or bodycams, there was still someone there with a camcorder that caught enough of what happened that told the rest of the story. Today, we know there were police body cameras that will reveal what really happened--up to 4 of them.

If exculpatory body cam video existed, I highly doubt the officer would have been charged with murder. Either the body cam video doesn't exist because they were turned off or it does not support the level of force employed by the officers.

Paulos23 · Jun 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
They have to live with their choices. Sadly so does everyone else.

I am not talking about their choice, because they didn't have many choices. In many cities, counties, and states there exists institutions to keep them down. And also feeds into the stereotype that they belong there.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2020

Paulos23 said:
I am not talking about their choice, because they didn't have many choices. In many cities, counties, and states there exists institutions to keep them down. And also feeds into the stereotype that they belong there.

I think they suffer most from self-inflicted wounds (based on my view from the cheap seats).

Aldebaran · Jun 1, 2020

RocksInMyHead said:
If exculpatory body cam video existed, I highly doubt the officer would have been charged with murder. Either the body cam video doesn't exist because they were turned off or it does not support the level of force employed by the officers.

But the firings didn't happen until the riots started, which points to the idea of it being in reaction to the riots. Charges can be later dropped. They might be counting on that. They may have told the cop, "Listen, people all over the country are demanding that you be charged with murder and they're burning everything down. So, here's what we're gonna do. We'll file murder charges against you and keep you in jail, which will also keep you safe until all this blows over. Later, we can reverse the charges and say we didn't have all the evidence at the time we charged you. In the end, the most you'll end up being convicted of is accidently causing the death of someone you were attempting to restrain."

RocksInMyHead · Jun 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
I don't think Mr. Floyd met his death for a misdemeanor crime. News at eleven.

RocksInMyHead · Jun 1, 2020

Aldebaran said:
But the firings didn't happen until the riots started, which points to the idea of it being in reaction to the riots. Charges can be later dropped. They might be counting on that. They may have told the cop, "Listen, people all over the country are demanding that you be charged with murder and they're burning everything down. So, here's what we're gonna do. We'll file murder charges against you and keep you in jail, which will also keep you safe until all this blows over. Later, we can reverse the charges and say we didn't have all the evidence at the time we charged you. In the end, the most you'll end up being convicted of is accidently causing the death of someone you were attempting to restrain."

I mean, anything's possible. But I think that if they tried to pull that, it would just make things worse. If the bodycam footage helped in any way, they would have released it rather than filing charges.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2020

RocksInMyHead said:

But the prisons are filled with black offenders that survived their arrest. Whyzat? :scratch:

cow451 · Jun 1, 2020

Aldebaran said:
But the firings didn't happen until the riots started, which points to the idea of it being in reaction to the riots. Charges can be later dropped. They might be counting on that. They may have told the cop, "Listen, people all over the country are demanding that you be charged with murder and they're burning everything down. So, here's what we're gonna do. We'll file murder charges against you and keep you in jail, which will also keep you safe until all this blows over. Later, we can reverse the charges and say we didn't have all the evidence at the time we charged you. In the end, the most you'll end up being convicted of is accidentally causing the death of someone you were attempting to restrain."

The outrage was so quick, I don't think the conspiratorial scenario holds water. But, I'm sure there was hope that throwing this goon under the prison bus would divert attention from the police brass and others..... Some hard questions about why he was still a cop after numerous infractions....And why was this dangerous "technique" still an approved on for the city cops....

Doesn't look like his wife was going to stand by her man, either.

RocksInMyHead · Jun 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
But the prisons are filled with black offenders that survived their arrest. Whyzat?

Why does it matter?

‘Vicious dogs and ominous weapons’

Never tell me the odds!

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Never tell me the odds!

NCC-1701-A

God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

NCC-1701-A

Standing with Ukraine.

God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

Never tell me the odds!

Wake me when it's soup.

NCC-1701-A

God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

Wake me when it's soup.

Standing with Ukraine.

God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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