[MOVED] The Nephilim Anchor Yale

SeamusDelion said:

Jesus never said that at all

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven.

Lets point out that this is taking place in the "Resurrection" And that hes referring to ANGELS IN HEAVEN not the fallen angels who left their proper domain.

AND HE NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT THEY DO HE SAID HUMANS WONT MARRY IN THE RESURRECTION.

Also, because of the angels the women cover their heads.. Hmmm... yeah context buddy. keep reading your bible.

Click to expand...

Are you saying that the angels in heaven do not procreate, but the fallen angels do? I've heard that one for years and it still, of course, makes no sense. Marriage is the only way that God sanctions sex. To not marry means no sex, that is exactly what Jesus is saying. I guess you are one of those that believe God made all the billions of angels male, but gave them the ability to have sex. So you have billions of angels all wanting to have sex but can not for they do not marry and there are no females around and God does not approve of homosexuality. No wander they fell!!

What on earth makes anyone think that God gives a function, but then will not let anyone use it? God doesn't do useless---He gave Adam and Eve and all animals here on earth male and female functions and commanded them to procreate, in the original language it says He made them functional, it does not read "good." Nowhere in the bible does it mention that angels were ever given that ability. I had one actually say that the fallen angels were given the "equipment" to procreate at the fall---equally ludicrous, if anyone thinks that God would alter the physicality of beings to procreate with humans, but then kills the humans for doing so! The ability to procreate is one reason the fallen angels hate us---they can't.
God also commanded that each was to procreate "after their kind"---angels are not our kind. We are created lower than the angels,

Heb_2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Even if they had the proper "equipment" to have sex with us---there could not be any progeny. We can't even mate with apes, which evolutionists claim are the most like us. Angels are not our kind any more than apes are.

BobRyan said:

Seems unlikely given the actual text of Genesis 6 and 7 , and that Christ in Matthew 22 says angels don't even have that sort of biological function - they do not form families or have children ...

I think Christ has the right answer here.

Click to expand...

Yes, he always has the right answer. But he qualified his answer:

For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. - Matthew 22

For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. - Mark 12

Click to expand...

The angels in Genesis 6 left heaven and entered this realm, so Jesus' revelation doesn't apply to them. As Jude says:

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day...

Click to expand...

Continuing on, Jude confirms that the sin of the angels was immorality:

...just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Click to expand...

ChetSinger said:

Yes, he always has the right answer. But he qualified his answer:

The angels in Genesis 6 left heaven and entered this realm, so Jesus' revelation doesn't apply to them. As Jude says:

Continuing on, Jude confirms that the sin of the angels was immorality:

Click to expand...

Total misreading n of that passage!! Start reading at verse 3---he is talking about

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

He then goes on to have them recall the past

Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

God destroyed even those of His people who did not believe

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

He did not spare His angels that rebelled but they are reserved for punishment

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them had given themselves over to fornication---it is not talking about the angels formicating---but even the other cities around Sodom and Gomorrah were going after strange flesh. And they suffered God's vengeance in fire for it----they are an example of what will happen to unrepentant sinners at the end---eternal fire! BTW, it obviously is still not burning, the eternal fire was until there was nothing left to burn, which is what hell is going to be---burning until there is nothing left of the wicked.

mmksparbud said:

Are you saying that the angels in heaven do not procreate, but the fallen angels do?

Click to expand...

As far as we know, the angels are all male. Every time we see angels in scripture they are male. Now, the scripture tells us that when daughters were born to men, the sons of God (angels) SAW that they were fair. So they lusted after them.
Gen. 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Remember, these angels fell with Satan, who is an angel. Yet God cursed him and his seed.
Gen. 6:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

So this shows that angels do have seed, thus they can procreate with females.

mmksparbud said:

Total misreading n of that passage!! Start reading at verse 3---he is talking about...

Click to expand...

I was momentarily baffled at your insistence that I was reading it wrong, and then realized that your text came from the KJV.

The sentence construction and grammar in the KJV is now 400 years old and in some places no longer delivers the original message.

Here's the same passage in the NET Bible, which is in modern English and uses the latest in scholarship:

You also know that the angels who did not keep within their proper domain but abandoned their own place of residence, he has kept in eternal chains in utter darkness, locked up for the judgment of the great Day.

So also Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighboring towns, since they indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in a way similar to these angels, are now displayed as an example by suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

Click to expand...

I don't know why this is such a problem for you. This was the consensus opinion among early church fathers including Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, Lactantius, and Commodianus. Josephus, the 1st century Jewish historian, included it in "Antiquities of the Jews". It can be easily demonstrated that this isn't a new interpretation, but the original one.

If you wish and if it will help, I believe I can point you to the relevant locations in each of the works I mentioned above.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

As far as we know, the angels are all male. Every time we see angels in scripture they are male. Now, the scripture tells us that when daughters were born to men, the sons of God (angels) SAW that they were fair. So they lusted after them.
Gen. 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Remember, these angels fell with Satan, who is an angel. Yet God cursed him and his seed.
Gen. 6:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

So this shows that angels do have seed, thus they can procreate with females.

Click to expand...

But that is not what that passsage means. It is not the angels it is talking about. These were men -- men of renown, mighty men, men of authority and most likely, religious leaders who chose women who did not follow the Lord, something God has always hated and still goes on.
Please go back and read post #24 for a further explanation. Angeles do not, can not procreate---they do not have a way to impregnate anyone. Jesus said they do not marry, which means they do not have sex, God only allows sex within the confines of marriage so Jesus was saying there is no sex in heaven. He says after the resurrection we will be as the angels are---not that only after the resurrection there is no sex in heaven---the angels were never able to procreate.

ChetSinger said:

I was momentarily baffled at your insistence that I was reading it wrong, and then realized that your text came from the KJV.

The sentence construction and grammar in the KJV is now 400 years old and in some places no longer delivers the original message.

Here's the same passage in the NET Bible, which is in modern English and uses the latest in scholarship:

I don't know why this is such a problem for you. This was the consensus opinion among early church fathers including Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, Lactantius, and Commodianus. Josephus, the 1st century Jewish historian, included it in "Antiquities of the Jews". It can be easily demonstrated that this isn't a new interpretation, but the original one.

If you wish and if it will help, I believe I can point you to the relevant locations in each of the works I mentioned above.

Click to expand...

No, my studies do not just come from the KJV---It comes from the study of many versions including the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. Did you not bother to read post #24? I quote mostly from the KJV as that is the one most people know and that I do like to read. I am not interested in the opinions of what men, esp. non Jewish men, think about the bible. I want to know what God thinks, what the Jews understood for it was given to them first and it is their understanding of scripture that is far more accurate than any non-Jew origin. You are, of course, free to believe whatever you want. I prefer to get as close to the original as possible.
The Targums go back much further than any of those "fathers" for they are of the time right after the Babylonian exile. Many Jews had lost their language and knew only Aramaic and such and these targums were as closely guarded as the actual word of God, they adhered to the same rules as when copying the Hebrew. It was from ancient Rabbis who translated from the Hebrew to the language the people spoke, but the original Hebrew was always read first in the temple, then the translation.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

And Lord Jesus warns that it will be like it was in the days of Noah when He returns. With the trend toward hybridization, transhumanism, CRISPR technology, and corruption of God's created order, we will see the same types of abominations as described in the OP.

Click to expand...

No no no no no.

Jesus says it will be like the days of Noah in that people are going about their business as usual, unaware of the coming flood.

The idea that the nephilim are angel-human hybrids seems to be the entire foundational basis for what is being put forward here; but this opinion is based solely upon a single obscure passage in Genesis 6. On the contrary, the far more likely position--and it's one which has been held by both Jewish and Christian scholars since antiquity--is that "sons of God" here refers to one group of human beings and "daughters of men" to another group of human beings. And so the nephilim are, well, they're just ordinary human beings. Indeed, they are called "heroes of old, men of renown".

Angels don't have reproductive organs.

-CryptoLutheran

mmksparbud said:

But that is not what that passsage means. It is not the angels it is talking about. These were men -- men of renown, mighty men, men of authority and most likely, religious leaders who chose women who did not follow the Lord, something God has always hated and still goes on.

Click to expand...

You refuse to learn what you THINK you already know. The sons of God in the text are the B'nai elohim. The same are in the story of Job.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God(B'nai elohim) came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Adam was the only man that was called son of God. All of his offspring was sons of man. The Nephilim are the offspring of the union of sons of God, B'nai elohim, and daughters of the sons of men. These were the mighty men that you are referring to.They were the hybrid race of giants which are neither sons of God nor sons of men, but are abominations which God destroyed in the Flood of Noah. Angels have seed. God said so. God cursed the seed of satan.

Gen. 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Maybe this video will be helpful. Tim Alberino has done an extensive research on this subject.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

As far as we know, the angels are all male. Every time we see angels in scripture they are male. Now, the scripture tells us that when daughters were born to men, the sons of God (angels) SAW that they were fair. So they lusted after them. .

Click to expand...

Genesis 6 does not say they were angels.
Matt 22 Christ said angels don't even have that function at all when asked about future family relationships in heaven for humans.

Matt 22
23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him, 24 asking, “Teacher, Moses said, ‘If a man dies having no children, his brother as next of kin shall marry his wife, and raise up children for his brother.’ 25 Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother; 26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. 27 Last of all, the woman died. 28 In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her.”
29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven

Angels then -- do not have family relationships - and in fact are specifically created by God... no "procreation" for angels. They don't have the biology for it.. not in the purpose and function for which they were created. If humans are in some sense "like angels" in that future state... then humans also would not "marry or be given in marriage".

ChetSinger said:

If you're not aware of Dr. Michael Heiser, he did actually write his dissertation on the Divine Council. The events in Genesis 6 are part of it since those Sons of God were members of the council.

Click to expand...

Seems unlikely given the actual text of Genesis 6 and 7 , and that Christ in Matthew 22 says angels don't even have that sort of biological function - they do not form families or have children ...

I think Christ has the right answer here.

SeamusDelion said:

Jesus never said that at all

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven.

Click to expand...

Indeed - angels do not have families at all - no parents --> no children. Each of them created directly by God just as was Adam created directly by God. But man was created specifically "male and female". And therefor could marry and have children.

Angels have no such biology. Not only do they not 'mate with other species' - they do not have the function to even mate with themselves.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

You refuse to learn what you THINK you already know. The sons of God in the text are the B'nai elohim. The same are in the story of Job.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God(B'nai elohim) came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Adam was the only man that was called son of God. All of his offspring was sons of man. The Nephilim are the offspring of the union of sons of God, B'nai elohim, and daughters of the sons of men. These were the mighty men that you are referring to.They were the hybrid race of giants which are neither sons of God nor sons of men, but are abominations which God destroyed in the Flood of Noah. Angels have seed. God said so. God cursed the seed of satan.

Gen. 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Click to expand...

I have studied this subject for years, in English, Hebrew, Aramaic---nope---Angels do not procreate. It is nbot biblical nor does it have any common sense at all. Again, the bible says all creatures have offspring after their own kind---0angels are not our kind, we are lower than they are. God calls those who follow Satan the children of Satan just as He calls those who follow Him His children. The passage itself calls them---men.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

This just says there were giants in those days, before and after the flood. No one knows how tall Adam and Eve were. They were not as we are, they lived for over 9oo years, what makes yo0u think they were as short as us? It's called genetics. They were tall and pockets of those tall genes have come down to us even today--it runs in families, also


These are not the offspring of angels---strange, what if there were short people then also? Were only the tall offspring of fallen angels but with short people it's just genetics? The very tall are not only because of acromegaly, there are thousands that are just very tall---and there are people with 6 finger or more today. Goliath and his family were not offspring of fallen angels, they were genetically giants---even the land there was a pocket that also grew large produce, like the cluster of grapes thsat required 2 people. Go to Alaska, they grew giant veggies there all the time. You can look all this stuff up in the internet.

The gathering in Job is a gathering of the representatives of other worlds---Satan came as the representatives of this planet for at the fall he acquired kingship of it and
the bible refers to him as the god of this world--

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

What kind of God is it that would make billions of all male angels with the equipment to have sex and the desire for it, but noit make a way for them to use that equipment? God is not the God of dysfunction, or confusion! What is makes is perfect and the angels are above us. We can not have children with them.
It would be far more useful for you to spend yo0ur time with the study of His word instead of the study of the vain imaginings of men who have no idea of what the antediluvians were! You think they were a bunch of Neanderthals, sitting around the campfire grunting and chewing of raw bones?? Have you ever looked up what the savants are able to do, and they are partially retarded? The antediluvians were not retarded in any way. Those people had perfectly functioning brains, were giants(compared to us) and lived over 900 hundred years in which to perfect their abilities. These silly people who go on about these building that no human could have possibly built have no ideas what they are talking about! The pre-flood people were far more advanced even than us. Their knowledge was lost after the flood is all. They needed no help from fallen angels to do anything! God gave them perfect brains which they used for evil. The only thing fallen angels wanted to do was to kill us all off--they hate us! God obviously did not destroy the giants in the flood for they were around after the flood, such as Goliath.
The destruction of the people in the flood had nothi8ng to do with bloodlines, but everything to do with what God said He destroyed them for:

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Read post #24.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

The sons of God in the text are the B'nai elohim. . . . Adam was the only man that was called son of God.

Click to expand...

It is true that the expression "sons of God" or "beni elohim" can refer to angels. But it is not true that Adam "was the only man that was called son of God." Heb: elohim can mean God, gods, princes or judges.

Exo 7:1 So the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you a god (Heb: elohim) to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet.

Exo 21:6 then his master will bring him to the judges (Heb: elohim), then he shall also bring him to the door or to the doorpost, and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall serve him forever.

Exo 22:8-9 If the thief is not caught, then the owner of the house will be brought before the judges (Heb: elohim) to determine if he has laid his hand on his neighbor’s goods. For any kind of trespass, whether it be for an ox, for a donkey, for a sheep, for clothing, or for any type of lost thing, where another says it is his, the case of both parties shall come before the judges (Heb: elohim). And whoever the judges (Heb: elohim) find guilty will pay double to his neighbor.

Psa 82:6-7 I say, “You are gods (Heb: elohim), sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince.”

The problem that causes disagreements about Gen 6:2 is that "beni elohim" can be angels and can be people. But then we read:

Gen 6:3 Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide in people for ever, for they are flesh, but their days shall be a hundred and twenty years.”

This is irrelevant if the verse before this was referring to angels. It makes sense only if "beni elohim" in verse 2 were people / rulers / judges / kings.

Then the story unfolds as follows with absolutely no mention of angels sinning:

Gen 6:5-7 The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the Lordsaid, “I will blot out from the earth the human beings I have created—people together with animals and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

People were wicked and people were destroyed in the flood. There is no reason to think that Nephilim were anything but people, no indication that they were hybrids.

BobRyan said:

Seems unlikely given the actual text of Genesis 6 and 7 , and that Christ in Matthew 22 says angels don't even have that sort of biological function - they do not form families or have children ...

I think Christ has the right answer here.

Click to expand...

I think perhaps our posts got mixed up. I responded to your words in post #43.

Well there were awful things happening in the days of Noah. I do not believe our heavenly Father is capricious to just destroy the whole world because people are just going about their everyday lives, marrying and eating and drinking. Those things were happening too, but greater sin was happening. The Bible says that everyone,EVERYONE, had corrupted God's way. Noah was the only one (and his children) that was genetically pure. We know he was not sinless, for he had the sin nature inherited from his forefathers. But he was perfect in his generations.

Scientists today are corrupting God's creations with genetic modification of plants and animals and human beings. This cannot be denied.This thread should not dissolve int an argument of who the B'nai elohim are in Genesis 6. We can explore the technologies that create abominations in our time.

SeamusDelion said:

Perfect in his generation, as in Christ would come, and there would be no Nephilim blood line in him.

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly.
Edit to add
Here is how Lord Jesus said it.
John 14:
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.