A Poll About The Cop

com7fy8 said:

Police are trained in CPR.

Click to expand...

Was this particular policeman trained in CPR?

There is going to be a through investigation and hopefully a fair and honest trail. I voted, I don't know because before I can make that call, I want to see at least some of the evidence.

The cop is a murderer and this is the bottomline. It doesn't matter what sick motives he had. These are between him and God.

com7fy8 said:

They claim the autopsy shows he did not die of asphyxiation. But, then, why did he die?

Click to expand...

Carotid sinus reflex death.

Chesterton said:

IMO, there's far too much police violence against everyone, my white self included. Given that police violence against blacks receives much more media attention, I don't think we can deduce anything in regard to this one instance.

Click to expand...

I've always been able to approach police to ask for directions (even in the middle of protests), and I know that a lot of black people wouldn't even dare. Of course, both race and gender are playing a role there, since people generally read white women as harmless, but I've heard from black people about the sort of constant harassment that they face. It's totally at odds with my own experience, so I think this is much more than media attention.

HatedByAll said:

There is going to be a through investigation and hopefully a fair and honest trail. I voted, I don't know because before I can make that call, I want to see at least some of the evidence.

Click to expand...

Let's make sure we understand. 1. The police station has been burned to the ground. Did it contain case files? Perhaps it had personnel files on the suspects? Evidence from the crime scene? 2. The city is in crisis mode handling the riots and all the crime associated with that. No doubt trying to track down individuals responsible for the damage. 3. There is still a deadly virus. 4. Plenty of excuses why other cops are not available to be questioned. and oh yeah, they have 28 days left to complete their investigation before they have to present the evidence. I can not envisage a more chaotic time for the prosecutor, nor can I imagine better excuses for why a thorough investigation is not done.

Chesterton said:

I chose the option to display votes publicly because I'd like everyone who votes to provide a reason(s) for their vote. Please don't vote if you're unwilling to articulate a reason. My answer is "I don't know" because I don't know.

Click to expand...

I voted that race was a part of the issue but I don't think it is the main issue. As a Marine veteran I learned that EVERYONE has a breaking point. As much as we don't want to think about it, we do. Some people are much more resilient than others and can handle a lot of stressful situation with no lasting consequences. Some don't.

I have served in the Marine Corps for over 15 years and can tell you that I have seen things far more troubling than that video. I have seen good men make some very poor decisions because of the stress. I have buddies that still suffer PTSD and have nightmares because of what they seen what ISIS fighters do to young women and children.

But you know what? When I deployed, i was only in harm's way for about 9 months before I was safely back home. We even had a month of post deployment training to help us settle back into society. Most people were supportive, some called me a murderer. So where am I going with this?

Police officers deal with some really bad people on a daily basis. They are not just walking around looking for innocent black kids to pick on. They respond to things like babies dead because their parents were strung out on meth. They respond to the car accident caused by a drunk driver that left a family dead. They respond to the 12 year old girl who was repeatedly gang raped. Yes! Sometimes they begin to notice that a lot of the bad people they deal with kinda look the same so they begin to develop a hatred for those people.

The point is that every day a police officer walks out that door, he and his family doesn't know if they will be coming home. Furthermore, they don't have the decompression period like I enjoyed.They may have spent that morning at the scene where a boy was killed by a drunk driver only to find themselves at their son's soccer game that afternoon...trying to compartmentalize the grief.

Now to be clear, I am not defending police brutality. I condemn them...all of them. Race may have played a part but I don't think the cop started his career off as a racist. I think police officers deal with far more stress than most people can fathom.

Chesterton said:

I chose the option to display votes publicly because I'd like everyone who votes to provide a reason(s) for their vote. Please don't vote if you're unwilling to articulate a reason. My answer is "I don't know" because I don't know.

Click to expand...

Police can show excessive force not only because they may be racist but it can be for many other reasons (like they are just bad cops).

This could be a race issue but just because "the man" is white and the victim is black doesn't immediately mean it's a race issue and we should exercise some prudence before we inflame the wrong issue. (clearly thats no longer an option)

Chauvin might have just been a jerk cop and didn't know when enough was enough, or maybe he was having a bad day (I hear his wife filed for divorce, that's not a one issue decision and has a greater history than this issue).

His actions are wrong regardless, unfit to serve and protect and he should be held accountable but do we have enough information to claim it was racially motivated? If we just blame it on race problems without due diligence then we are no better and have used our own prejudice to cast judgment and become racist ourselves in doing do.

If you want to stop racism it needs to penetrate every area including the judgment process (or pointing the finger process) otherwise we are saying it's ok to cast broad judgments just because of how we "feel" from our own prejudices

I'd say it's a very strong possibility, considering the history of systemic racism in America as exemplified by police brutality against blacks.

HatedByAll said:

There is going to be a through investigation and hopefully a fair and honest trail.

Click to expand...

If only everybody felt that way. Then there would have been no violence.

Andrewn said:

Carotid sinus reflex death.

Click to expand...

I fear that you just made that up.

The official statement is:

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd’s autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.

com7fy8 said:

Whether he is racist or not, as soon as George went limp, they could have checked his pulse and done CPR. Police are trained in CPR. Now, if not before, police in training can be told > if a person goes limp in restraint, check the person's pulse.

I know ones, of course, can go limp in order to fool the police. But one could pass out, on alcohol or a developing overdose. So, you need to check what is going on.

They claim the autopsy shows he did not die of asphyxiation. But, then, why did he die? The stopped pulse would have shown he needed help, in any case. It would be significant to see if he died of what CPR could have corrected.

Oh yes, and they know about NARCAN.

So, if he stayed limp for more than two minutes . . . without being checked . . . this means something to be dealt with.

Click to expand...

Based on the position shown of the officers knee I think it’s possible that the blood flow in the carotid artery was restricted.

ruthiesea said:

Based on the position shown of the officers knee I think it’s possible that the blood flow in the carotid artery was restricted.

Click to expand...

You are guessing there. And from what I've seen of the video, Chauvin was not putting his full weight on Floyd's neck.

But I guess we need to wait for the full autopsy report.

Radagast said:

I fear that you just made that up.

The official statement is:

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd’s autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.

Click to expand...

What I wrote is quite consistent with the ME's findings. Are you a medical doctor?

Andrewn said:

Are you a medical doctor?

Click to expand...

No. Are you?

It may have been potentially minor in comparison to the bigger issue of police not properly de-escalating a situation or using excessive force, but if you look at some big black guy and assume he's dangerous enough that you have to use that kind of force, then there's arguably some degree of prejudice going on towards people not your own race

muichimotsu said:

It may have been potentially minor in comparison to the bigger issue of police not properly de-escalating a situation or using excessive force, but if you look at some big black guy and assume he's dangerous enough that you have to use that kind of force, then there's arguably some degree of prejudice going on towards people not your own race

Click to expand...

I don't think it was a matter of assumption. Three policemen tried to put George Floyd in the back of a police car and were unable to do so.

The videos seem to show that he was standing for a while and being moved a couple times while on his feet, and he did not obviously resist and they were not obviously struggling to move him while on his feet.

Then there is footage of him on the street and he is able to say, "I can't breathe." Well, if you can't breathe, how can you get enough breath to say you can't breathe . . . loud enough for a slightly distant cell to pick you up clearly? And he was lifting his head from the pavement, and moving his head somewhat. The foot appears to be more on the back-to-side of his neck . . . not directly on either carotid, and not directly against his voice box which was downward from the foot.

Then he seems to simply go limp. So, that could go with him simply having heart failure or going unconscious due to overdose or alcohol poisoning. I think it is said he was drunk. But you would need to test his blood for any drug that could have been effecting him, too.

And if he had a heart condition . . . was he actively taking medicine? And in case he was > alcohol can interact with heart medicine > this is general knowledge, not high-end stuff only a doctor would know. He appeared very sluggish; so that could mean he had an amount of alcohol to interact with a heart med . . . if he was on and using prescribed medicine. And if he wasn't, with a heart condition . . . that alone could do something to him, especially while having a high level of alcohol in his system and in a stress situation while he had claustrophobia. But alcohol might help to tranquilize him. So . . . . . . have fun figuring that all out.

So . . . in my opinion . . . there could be more than we have been told, to this . . . medically.

But still it is clear he was not handled the right way. Oh @Radagast > but if he made a problem when they tried to put him in the cruiser . . . maybe because claustrophobia got to him, about being in the car . . . he wasn't helping.

And if he has claustrophobia > I can see how being under a foot, with the pavement in his face, right next to the patrol car which was almost over his face and with the darkness under that vehicle, also near his face . . . that could make him feel shut in in some way which could have gotten him into major anxiety which could effect his breathing and emotional state effecting his heart. Yet, substance/s in his blood might help tranquilize that, for all I know.

But Jesus can have us free of fear, and have us loving so we are being hospitable with even abusive police. Love can make us spiritually sound and emotionally sober so things can't get to us > 1 John 4:17, Colossians 3:15. We can first see police as people to honor and appreciate for how they risk their lives to protect your mother, your father, your brother, your sister, your best friend . . . while a lot of us do not lay our lives on the line, every day, to protect and help anyone . . . not to mention how each day police officers are in situations where they are trusted to help isolated people who need help. There is a very high level of being trusted, in this work. And a million Americans do this work, all the time.

So, why would anyone do what can tie up such a person from helping the needy people who are seniors and sick and lone handicapped people who daily need the police before an ambulance is called and before the fire fighters arrive? Why would anyone do some crime which results in 9/11 being tied up away from how the police help needy innocent people? There are officers who do well-being checks, too, on seniors, phoning them, each day.

Yes, it is ridiculous for an officer to abuse anyone . . . on the job or at home. But there is a two-way street here. It also is pathetic for a person to live in sin which brings death > "He who loves his life will lose it," Jesus warns in John 12:25. And yet there are people who do crimes and therefore they directly attack how officers could be helping needy people. This is abuse, too > including how crimes help to keep a continual emotional and physical siege on police, using up their energy and time which should be used for rescuing people from burning cars and buildings, and helping needy people . . . and having time for a break for coffee and donuts so they can enjoy and encourage each other.

Everything we are doing should encourage them, t.

com7fy8 said:

Then there is footage of him on the street and he is able to say, "I can't breathe." Well, if you can't breathe, how can you get enough breath to say you can't breathe

Click to expand...

He was saying that long before he wound up on the ground. According to the County Attorney:

The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side. Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still. Mr. Floyd is over six feet tall and weighs more than 200 pounds. While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe. The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted.

One possibility is that he suffered some kind of panic attack on being arrested. Or else it might have been drugs talking.

com7fy8 said:

So . . . in my opinion . . . there could be more than we have been told, to this . . . medically.

Click to expand...

We are still waiting for a more detailed autopsy report.

com7fy8 said:

But still it is clear he was not handled the right way.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. I would like to hear Chauvin explain what on earth he thought he was doing.

Radagast said:

Absolutely. I would like to hear Chauvin explain what on earth he thought he was doing.

Click to expand...

I now think of this > if an officer has a serial record of abuse . . . he is not functional for how to relate with people. So, if he is put in a situation where he is struggling with a 200 pound man, though with other officers with him . . . still it is possible he just is not developed for handling problem people well. So, in an aggravated situation, it is maybe even likely he will mess up somehow.

So . . . instead of prosecuting him now . . . he needed to be removed so he would not get into major trouble or even minor trouble, at some point. For his own safety and protection . . . since he is not competent to function with difficult people . . . he needed to already have been removed.

Now "maybe" he was given counseling and treatment, however. And possibly they felt they had reprogrammed his ways. But . . . I know from experience how humans can find ways to get to me . . . in ways I never saw coming, didn't realize how creative people can act contrary to my personality. And I am into turning the other cheek and stuff like this, but still ones very well produce ways to mess with me. And I can get in a rage. And I know this is not how Jesus has me being loving and caring with prayer for people.

So, I can see how unless an officer has been changed in one's character by God, it is possible that no amount of training and preprogramming can prepare any human for the various ways people can mess with them in many ways. They might act professionally, but deeper it can be getting to them.

So, if officers are not Christians . . . Jesus says, "without Me you can do nothing", in John 15:5. They are making a major sacrifice. We should be good to them, but with hope they become how God is able to have us relating in His goodness of His love with His almighty emotional and spiritual safety of His peace. Authorities of this evil world have very dirty stuff to deal with. And I understand how, then, Romans 13:1-7 can mean for us to be appreciative and good to ones doing such work, and not be adding to the stress > how are we ourselves doing, with stress?