20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

DavidPT said:

I don't have any issues with any of this until you have this meaning his release from the bottomless pit after the thousand years. The thousand years are not even in view in Revelation 12 anywhere, let alone satan's release after the thousand years. Before satan is cast to the earth, he has access to heaven still. The bottomless pit is in the earth, not somewhere in heaven, therefore he is not being released from the pit anywhere in all of Revelation 12. There is no place in Revelation 12 where a thousand years can fit, keeping in mind that satan is in a pit during the thousand years.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


Logic and plain common sense says, according to verse 1, what follows in the chapter are events taking place on the earth. Verse 2 says---And he opened the bottomless pit. Opened the bottomless pit where? How can it not be on the earth where he just fell to? Verse 3 says---And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth. If they came upon the earth from the bottomless pit, how can that not mean that the bottomless pit is then under the earth's surface?

As to the locusts that emerge, until the pit is opened, they are clearly confined within the pit with no way of getting out whatsoever until someone opens the pit. When satan is cast into the pit, according to Revelation 20, the same has to be true for him as well. While he is in the pit, he, like these locusts, also is clearly confined within the pit with no way of getting out whatsoever until someone opens the pit.

With that in mind, let's go back to Revelation 12 and look at a couple of things.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.


Until this war breaks out, satan is still in heaven in some sense or another. Before this war breaks out, does it look like satan has been confined in a pit under the surface of the earth where these locusts are being confined? Of course not. It's ludicrous to think satan has been bound in the pit under the earth before this war breaks out in heaven. This clearly and undeniably tells us that the thousand years can't possibly fit during a time before this war in heaven breaks out. You of course have made it clear that you are not arguing this. Yet aren't you arguing the 1,000 years are symbolic for the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant?


I don't even remotely have a clue as to what you are meaning by the 1,000 years are symbolic for the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant. It's as if you are speaking Chinese, except I don't speak Chinese. That's how much whatever you are trying to convey here, has gone way over my head. If the Davidic covenant you are referring to is meaning before this war in heaven where satan is then cast unto the earth, how can satan possibly be in the pit under the surface of the earth confined with the locusts in Revelation 9, during the time of the Davidic covenant? But like I already pointed out in numerous pasts posts, it is difficult discussing some of these things with Preterist Amils such as yourself. Even though I obviously don't agree with SG's version of Amil either, I'm at least able to follow his line of reasoning for the most. Now if only he could follow my line of reasoning for the most part in return, maybe he and I could get somewhere in these discussions for once.



After this war in heaven breaks out, what is the next thing that happens? Satan is cast unto the earth. Let's now look at what happens once he has been cast unto the earth.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Does it look like satan is confined in a pit under the surface of the earth where these locusts are being confined while these events are transpiring? Of course not. Even though you are not arguing that satan is in the pit during Revelation 12:13, you are arguing that this is meaning when he is released from the pit after the thousand years.

But as I argued above, the thousand years don't fit anywhere while satan still had access to heaven. And if the thousand years can't fit after satan has been cast to the earth either, why should anyone be perplexed as to why I have been asking Amils time and time again, that if the thousand years are before Christ's bodily return in the end of this age, then simply point out in Revelation 12 the beginning of the thousand years, and the ending of the thousand years, since this chapter covers at least the past 2000 years and then some, the same 2000 years where most Amils, maybe not you though, are claiming are meaning the thousand years in Revelation 20.

There is simply no logical place to fit a thousand years in Revelation 12 except for one place, and one place only. And that one place is meaning after the fulfillment of verse 17 in that chapter. But once that verse has been fulfilled, we are at the end of this present earth age, therefore placing the thousand years, not before Christ's bodily return in the end of this age, but after His bodily return in the end of this age. That is clearly not Amil, that is clearly Premil, yet the OP claims 17 reasons to reject Premil, though I as a Premil, have provided numerous reasons in return, to reject Amil.


The way my mind works in general, right or wrong, something has to at least be logical first before it can even be considered a valid possibility. There is nothing logical about satan already being confined under the earth where the locusts in Revelation 9 are being confined, because if that was logical, one would be able to see it somewhere in Revelation 12, except it's clearly not there. To argue that it is, is to defy logic, IMO.

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I notice that you often only respond to posts that are easy to rebut, and ignore posts that forbid your doctrine. That does nothing to advance your position. In fact, it puts a question mark over the veracity of your argument.

DavidPT said:

I don't have any issues with any of this until you have this meaning his release from the bottomless pit after the thousand years. The thousand years are not even in view in Revelation 12 anywhere, let alone satan's release after the thousand years. Before satan is cast to the earth, he has access to heaven still. The bottomless pit is in the earth, not somewhere in heaven, therefore he is not being released from the pit anywhere in all of Revelation 12. There is no place in Revelation 12 where a thousand years can fit, keeping in mind that satan is in a pit during the thousand years.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


Logic and plain common sense says, according to verse 1, what follows in the chapter are events taking place on the earth. Verse 2 says---And he opened the bottomless pit. Opened the bottomless pit where? How can it not be on the earth where he just fell to? Verse 3 says---And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth. If they came upon the earth from the bottomless pit, how can that not mean that the bottomless pit is then under the earth's surface?

As to the locusts that emerge, until the pit is opened, they are clearly confined within the pit with no way of getting out whatsoever until someone opens the pit. When satan is cast into the pit, according to Revelation 20, the same has to be true for him as well. While he is in the pit, he, like these locusts, also is clearly confined within the pit with no way of getting out whatsoever until someone opens the pit.

With that in mind, let's go back to Revelation 12 and look at a couple of things.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.


Until this war breaks out, satan is still in heaven in some sense or another. Before this war breaks out, does it look like satan has been confined in a pit under the surface of the earth where these locusts are being confined? Of course not. It's ludicrous to think satan has been bound in the pit under the earth before this war breaks out in heaven. This clearly and undeniably tells us that the thousand years can't possibly fit during a time before this war in heaven breaks out. You of course have made it clear that you are not arguing this. Yet aren't you arguing the 1,000 years are symbolic for the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant?


I don't even remotely have a clue as to what you are meaning by the 1,000 years are symbolic for the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant. It's as if you are speaking Chinese, except I don't speak Chinese. That's how much whatever you are trying to convey here, has gone way over my head. If the Davidic covenant you are referring to is meaning before this war in heaven where satan is then cast unto the earth, how can satan possibly be in the pit under the surface of the earth confined with the locusts in Revelation 9, during the time of the Davidic covenant? But like I already pointed out in numerous pasts posts, it is difficult discussing some of these things with Preterist Amils such as yourself. Even though I obviously don't agree with SG's version of Amil either, I'm at least able to follow his line of reasoning for the most. Now if only he could follow my line of reasoning for the most part in return, maybe he and I could get somewhere in these discussions for once.



After this war in heaven breaks out, what is the next thing that happens? Satan is cast unto the earth. Let's now look at what happens once he has been cast unto the earth.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Does it look like satan is confined in a pit under the surface of the earth where these locusts are being confined while these events are transpiring? Of course not. Even though you are not arguing that satan is in the pit during Revelation 12:13, you are arguing that this is meaning when he is released from the pit after the thousand years.

But as I argued above, the thousand years don't fit anywhere while satan still had access to heaven. And if the thousand years can't fit after satan has been cast to the earth either, why should anyone be perplexed as to why I have been asking Amils time and time again, that if the thousand years are before Christ's bodily return in the end of this age, then simply point out in Revelation 12 the beginning of the thousand years, and the ending of the thousand years, since this chapter covers at least the past 2000 years and then some, the same 2000 years where most Amils, maybe not you though, are claiming are meaning the thousand years in Revelation 20.

There is simply no logical place to fit a thousand years in Revelation 12 except for one place, and one place only. And that one place is meaning after the fulfillment of verse 17 in that chapter. But once that verse has been fulfilled, we are at the end of this present earth age, therefore placing the thousand years, not before Christ's bodily return in the end of this age, but after His bodily return in the end of this age. That is clearly not Amil, that is clearly Premil, yet the OP claims 17 reasons to reject Premil, though I as a Premil, have provided numerous reasons in return, to reject Amil.


The way my mind works in general, right or wrong, something has to at least be logical first before it can even be considered a valid possibility. There is nothing logical about satan already being confined under the earth where the locusts in Revelation 9 are being confined, because if that was logical, one would be able to see it somewhere in Revelation 12, except it's clearly not there. To argue that it is, is to defy logic, IMO.

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All I am seeing in your posts is personal opinion. It doesn't matter how many times you forward that, or it doesn't matter how boldly you proclaim it, it is still personal opinion. I am seeing no corroboration. That is because Premil does not rely on corroboration. When you press them for literal biblical support for their theory of Revelation 20 they normally respond: "Revelation 20 says." Premils interpret the whole of Scripture in the light of their view of Revelation 20 instead of interpreting Revelation 20 in the light of the whole of Scripture. This is faulty and dangerous hermeneutics! Revelation 20 cannot corroborate their view of Revelation 20. Amils on the other hand tend to use the biblical premise "what saith the Scripture."

The only conclusion I can arrive at is that the Premil interpretation of Revelation 20 is in error, it conflicts with numerous Scripture, and enjoys NO other serious scriptural support.

Your refusal to submit corroboration reinforces my opening point in the Op:

(1) Premil is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, Revelation 20. It interprets the rest of Scripture in the light of its opinion of one lone highly-debated chapter located in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. All end-time Scripture is viewed through the lens of Revelation 20. This is not a very wise way to establish any truth or doctrine.

Nowhere in Scripture does it portray the resurrection of the just as "the first resurrection" - or is it. For your info, there has been a glorious pivotal resurrection that occurred 2000 years ago that preceded it.

The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Positionally, we have our part in His life, death, resurrection, ascension and glorious reign through regeneration - being "in Christ." This means the lake of fire (the second death) has no claim over us. Our sin was buried with Christ and when He arose we arose. He was our representative. He was our substitute. The company that have their “part” in the first resurrection in Revelation 20:6 are all those that are spiritually raised “in Christ” from the grave of their sin.

Romans 6:4 says, “we are buried with him by baptism into death.”

Colossians 2:12 agrees, saying, we are “Buried with him in baptism.”

Romans 6:4 says, “like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Colossians 2:12 again concurs, saying, “ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?

42 months

Firstly, the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet's activity are not simply restricted to 42 months before Christ's Coming, as you suggest. I didn't think anyone believed that, although, nothing shocks me in end-time discussion. Moreover, to attribute what you wrongly believe on this to the Amil position is wrong. Amils believe that they continue throughout the intra-Advent period (the millennium time).

Secondly, the beast represents the ongoing reign of Satan on the earth throughout time through the world secular anti-Christ system. It is not an end-time invention as Futurist's imagine.

Thirdly, Revelation is not chronological. It is a number of recaps describing the same intra-Advent period. The end of the millennium and Satan's "little season" corresponds with the end time persecution spoke elsewhere in Revelation and in other Scripture. The millennium does not follow Rev 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Rev 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.

DavidPT said:

Prove your points with Revelation 12, then. Show in Revelation 12 when satan is initially bound in the pit under the surface of the earth with the locusts confined there. Show in Revelation 12 when satan is initially released from the pit that he is bound in under the surface of the earth with the locusts confined there. Until then you are clearly avoiding what I'm actually arguing, thus not addressing what I'm asking and arguing.

Revelation 12 covers at least the past 2000 years and then some, the same 2000 years Amils, such as you, claim are meaning the thousand years. Logic then says, that if you are correct, you would be able to point out in Revelation 12 when satan is initially bound, and when he is initially loosed after the thousand years. So when do you plan on getting around to that? Probably never, right? And the reason why, is because you know you can't.

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That is an absurd request because Revelation 12 is talking about the casting down of Satan, which occurred after the binding of Satan. The focus there is Satan's banishment from heaven due to Christ having paid the penalty for sin. I have already addressed this and you have already avoided this. This is testimony to the impotence of your position. You avoid because you have no corroboration and you cannot deal with the biblical facts presented before you. Revelation 20 is where the Holy Spirit describes the binding of Satan in order for the Gospel to advance to the Gentiles. Notwithstanding, Revelation 12 and Revelation 20 correlate in showing the defeat of the devil 2000 years ago. Premillennialism is waiting for the defeat of the devil. It is unscriptural and contradicts the book of Revelation.

Revelation is full of recaps. While they focus in on the same intra-Advent period they focus different aspects of the overthrow of the kingdom of darkness. Revelation is written for the purpose of revealing the character and standing of Christ, His power and glory, following His victorious earthly ministry. It reveals who Christ is, His current standing, what His plan is, and it also ministers unto those who are going through tribulation.

Revelation is designed to enlighten God’s people, stir their hearts and increase their faith.

John basically goes behind the scenes into the spiritual realm and articulates in symbolic form the enormity of the great conflict between light and darkness. In the book of Revelation, we get a perceptive insight into the invisible realm.

Those who have eyes to see will get the thrust of the book! I didn’t say that you would get every minute detail. But you should get the overall message of the apocalypse.

What we are looking at is a spiritual revelation of our Savior revealed to us in symbolic form. We get a general overview of the story. We then have an expansion of particular aspects of that story. Scripture often does that.

keras said:

Revelation 1:1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ....that He may show His servants what must soon take place.
Obviously the 'soon', is in the Lords timing, or refers only to Revelation 1 to 6:11, as what is Written the Book of Revelation 6:12 onwards, is yet to happen.

Rather that what you claim, SG; the Book of Revelation seems to have caused much confusion and loss of faith.
This is because many people have chosen to believe false teachings and confused their minds. Something very apparent here.

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Yes, I agree. Pretrib and Premil produces that. Amil fits and makes sense and dispels the confusion many of them were taught in their previous life as Premils.

DavidPT said:

It's hardly absurd, lol. What is absurd is that you claim that the past 2000 years have been meaning the thousand years in Revelation 20, the very same 2000 years that Revelation 12 covers, but then can't even prove it with Revelation 12.


I'm probably wasting my time here, but I will still try anyway. Let's go through some major points in Revelation 12.

A) Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

As for the timing in this verse, is this before the thousand years, during the thousand years, or after the thousand years? Also, as of this verse, is this before the war in heaven where satan is then cast to the earth? Or is this after the war in heaven where satan is then cast to the earth?

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This takes us right back to the beginning when Satan first rebelled. It takes us right up to the incarnation.

B) Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

As of this part----and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Is this before the thousand years, during the thousand years, or after the thousand years?

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This is speaking about Christ's ascension. Satan had already be bound and the first resurrection had already occurred. This is around the commencement of the thousand years.

C)Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

As to this war in heaven. Is this before the thousand years, during the thousand years, or after the thousand years?

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This is around the commencement of the thousand years.

D) Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

As to these parts---for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Is this before the thousand years, during the thousand years, or after the thousand years?

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This is around the commencement of the thousand years.

E) Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

As for the timing in this verse, is this before the thousand years, during the thousand years, or after the thousand years?

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This is during the thousand years.

F) Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

As for the timing in this verse, is this before the thousand years, during the thousand years, or after the thousand years?

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This is during the thousand years.

If you are able to answer all of the questions above truthfully, your answers should then reflect where the thousand years initially begin and where they officially end.

To show that I'm not not asking you to do anything that is unreasonable, I will go first and show you how I would answer all of the questions above I'm wanting you to answer.

I'll start with A) and work my way to F).

A) Answer: before the thousand years. Answer: before the war in heaven where satan is then cast to the earth.

B) Answer: before the thousand years.

C) Answer: before the thousand years.

D) Answer: before the thousand years.

E) Answer: before the thousand years.

F) Answer: before the thousand years.

It took me less than a minute to answer those questions. What do my answers reflect?
They indicate that between the time that begins in A), that being at least 2000 years ago, unto the time that ends in F), that being at least 2000 years or more later, the same 2000 years Amils, such as yourself, claim are meaning the thousand years, there is no thousand year period to find the beginning and ending of in the texts, because there is no hint of a thousand years in the texts anywhere. As in zero.

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Who said a thousand years is mentioned here? It is Premils that are fixated with that number. They wrongly insist on it being a literal time period. “A thousand” and “a thousand years” are repeatedly used in a figurative sense in Scripture. Revelation 20 is located in the most figurative book in the Bible. Hello! The "thousand years" represents an indefinite period between Christ's 2 Advents.

Now your turn, keeping in mind what I said---If you are able to answer all of the questions above truthfully, your answers should then reflect where the thousand years initially begin and where they officially end.

BTW, if you are not up to this challenge, let the readers judge as to the likely reason why, and that being, because this challenge would reveal that the thousand years can't be the past 2000 years after all, because if they are you would then accept this challenge and prove what you assert, and that your answers would reflect where the beginning of the thousand years are in Revelation 12 and where they end in Revelation 12.

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Now, can you answer a few questions?

Moses employs `a thousand' in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 also states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A thousand and ten thousand are used together in Psalm 91, saying, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A similar contrast between these two numbers or ideas is seen in Deuteronomy 32:30, where a rhetorical question is asked, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?"

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Joshua affirms, on the same vein, in chapter 23, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you" (v 10).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Isaiah the prophet similarly declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one."

This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth.

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 saying, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, "I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The same idea is intended in Isaiah 60:21-22, where the prophet instructs, in relation to the New Earth, "Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Amos 5:1-4 says, "The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up. For thus saith the Lord GOD; The city that went out by a thousand shall leave an hundred, and that which went forth by an hundred shall leave ten, to the house of Israel."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

DavidPT said:

Let's start with your answer for E), where that question involves Revelation 12:13. You indicated that is during the thousand years. In order for me to better understand how you are interpreting certain matters, I need to understand how you are interpreting the locusts that are in the pit until the pit is opened, and that they are then let out. The reason I need to understand that is because, in whatever manner you are interpreting that in, the same has to be true of satan when he is cast into this same pit.

Some questions, then. While these locusts are in the pit, can they physically get outside of the pit while it is still shut and that no one has opened it yet? For example, Revelation 12:13 shows satan persecuting the woman while you are claiming he is in the pit. These locusts that are in the pit, can they also torment people who are outside of the pit while they are still locked up in it? If they can't, why is it that you are claiming satan can persecute someone while he is confined in the pit? If it has anything to do with a dog on a leash analogy, shouldn't that same analogy apply to the locusts that are confined in the pit, that they too can torment people who are outside of the pit if they come within the range of their leashes?

I realize you me asked me some questions in return, and I will do my best to try and answer them if I can, but I can only address so much at a time, and that right now my focus is on your answers to some of my questions, and that I'm needing more info, such as what I asked above, so that I can determine if you're treating satan's confinement in the pit in the same manner that you are treating the locusts confinement in the pit.

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Contrary to what you assert, there is a difference between Satan's casting into the abyss, and his casting out from heaven to earth. These are two different events.

Amils do not believe that Satan's authority is obsolete, but that he is like a dog on a chain. He is restricted specifically from stopping the enlightenment of the Gentiles through the great commission. The pit is a condition rather than a geographical place. It is a place of spiritual restraint.

DavidPT said:

I have an argument in return, one that I'm sure you're already familiar with. Every place in the Bible, in both the OT and NT, when a cardinal number is followed by years, it is meaning the literal amount of years specified every single time, without exception. You're free to try and prove that wrong. It only stands to reason, that if a thousand is a cardinal number as well, whenever it is followed by years in the Bible, the same has to be true for it also.

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A thousand years

There is a big difference between "a thousand" and 1,000 [one thousand] as you keep suggesting. The number 'one' is not included in the narrative, you must insert it in. Rather it is the more general thousand.

The figure a “thousand years” is employed ten times in Scripture – twice in the Old Testament and eight times in the New Testament. Significantly, of the eight mentions in the New, six are found in the same book of the Bible – Revelation. And of even greater note, all are disproportionately found together within the same chapter – the one currently under examination – Revelation 20. The two other New Testament references are found in the book of 2 Peter 3. In all the references, they indicate a large unspecific indefinite time period.

The two Old Testament passages are found in Psalm 90 and Ecclesiastes 6. And in both references the figure ‘a thousand years’ is used in a symbolic or figurative sense to denote an indefinite time-span. The first mention is in Psalm 90:3-5, where we read, “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.”

This passage is often advanced by Premillennialists as proof of a literal physical future earthly millennium. Such people confidently advance it in such a way, as if it states, ‘For a thousand years in thy sight are but as tomorrow which is yet to come’. However, a careful reading of this inspired narrative reveals that it rather in stark contrast declares, “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past.” This passage therefore does not in the slightest allude to the future, never mind to some supposed impending earthly post Second Advent temporal period, but clearly to the past. This passage simply reveals profound truth about God and His infinite view of time rather than any misconceived earthly idea about a future millennium.

The thousand years are notably "as yesterday" rather than 'as tomorrow' or 'as a future period after Christ's Coming'.

A ‘thousand years’ is here used to describe God’s eternal view of time, which is in stark contrast to man’s limited understanding. This text teaches us that time is nothing with the Lord. God lives in eternity and His perspective of time far exceeds the finite mind of man. A ‘thousand years’ in this life is but a flash in the light of eternity. This reading goes on then to describe the solemn reality of the fleetingness of time and the brevity of life, saying, “we spend our years as a tale that is told” (v 9).

No wonder the Psalmist humbly prays to God, “teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom” (Psalm 90:12).

In Ecclesiastes 6:3,6-7 we find the second Old Testament reference to a thousand years. Here the term is simply used to represent an idea rather than outlining a specific measurable period of time. It reads, “If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he…Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place? All the labour of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.”

This text is not remotely suggesting that a person could actually live to be a thousand years multiplied by two (or 2,000 years), such is, and has always been since the fall, a naturally impossibility. Rather, the text expresses a deep spiritual truth that even if someone lives to an incomprehensible age outside of Christ and hope, this life is completely meaningless. The term a 1000 multiplied by 2 therefore represents a hypothetically number, which spiritually impresses the important reality of the brevity and futility of carnal life. No man in Scripture, or since, has ever lived to the age of 2,000 years old.

Interestingly, the only place outside of Revelation 20 that the term a thousand years is mentioned in the New Testament is in 2 Peter 3. There, it is significantly used in an entirely figurative sense. In this chapter, Peter is specifically addressing the cynics who live in the last days that doubt the appearing of the Lord at His Second Advent and indeed harbour the foolish notion that He will not come at all. It is in this context that he addresses these misguided doubters, saying, “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (2 Peter 3:3-4).

Peter, however, says in response, “For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” (vv 5-9).

This familiar passage closely parallels the reading that we have just analysed in Psalm 90, indicating the same spiritual truth – that God is not limited to time. Again, notably, the contrast between the number one and a thousand is employed to simply represent an important divine truth.

Some theologians mistakenly attempt to use this passage to argue that one of God’s eternal days represents a literal thousand earthly years and that the commencement occurs at the time of Second Advent. However, they do err in their assumption, in that, this text simply indicates the briefness of time with God. 2 Peter 3 does not in anyway indicate a future earthly millennium kingdom anywhere in this reading. Peter is simply reminding such people that time is absolutely nothing to the King of glory. He ultimately sits outside of time in the realm of eternity. Time is but a blink to His infinite mind and to the eternal state.

Christ speaks of the unprepared state of many professing believers, who are exposed for their unpreparedness in Luke 12:45-46, saying, “if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.”

It is in this context that he addresses these misguided doubters. Peter says in response, “beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (v 8).

Peter thus outlines two distinct yet contrasting time equations in this passage for the sole purpose of expressing a deep spiritual truth. Notwithstanding, and not surprisingly, the Premillennialist are swift to selectively advance the first aspect of this calculation as supposed evidence that one of God’s heavenly days represents a thousand literal temporal earthly years. However, whilst they unquestionably address, and happily literalise, the first part of this calculation they are understandably careful to side step the second part of the sum. Evidently, such is for the reason that it doesn’t fit their flawed hyper-literalist mode of interpretation.

Significantly, this reading in no place suggests the day of the Lord lasts a literal 1,000 years. The Premillennialist forces that into the reading. In the above passage it simply indicates “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (v 8).

Those who take the aforementioned verses to support a future 1,000-year millennium of peace are faced with an insurmountable inconsistency when they examine the detail of the remainder of the chapter, and try and get it to fit their paradigm. 2 Peter 3:10-13 continues, “the day of the Lord will come (or arrive) as thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall ‘go or pass away, or perish’ with a great noise, and the elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be ‘burned up utterly or consumed wholly’. Seeing then that all these things shall be ‘dissolved, loosened or broke up’ … Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be ‘dissolved, melted or loosed’, and the elements shall ‘melt by being set on fire’?” Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

This passage is so clear, final and all-consummating that one wonders how anyone could remotely imagine that creation could survive such an all-consummating fiery event. One also wonders how the Holy Spirit could have possibly advanced more explicit language to indicate the idea of total devastation. Whatever way you look at this chapter there is absolutely no allowance made or possibility for a future post-Second Coming millennial kingdom on this earth. Peter knows of no other coming of Christ other than that which eradicate the heavens, elements and the earth in one stupendous conflagration.

Anyone who contends that this passage supports the Premillennial theory that the day of the Lord lasts a literal 1,000 years after the second coming must surely see the absolute absurdity of their notion in the light of these last verses. This vivid account of complete devastation and utter destruction that occurs in this final day totally destroys any credence for the advancement of the Premillennial supposition. If this day lasts 1,000 years, as the Premillennialist passionately argues, then it is unquestionably a thousand years of awful and continuous judgment, which is in stark contradiction to the peaceful (albeit goat-infested) millennium that Premillennialists try to portray in their literature.

The Greek word katakakeesetai used here carries a very strong and unambiguous meaning of ‘burned up utterly’ or ‘consumed wholly’. The King James Version uses it 12 times (Matt 3:12, 13:30, 40, Luke 3:17, Acts 19:19, 1 Cor 3:15, Heb 13:11, 2 Pet 3:10, Rev 8:7 (x2), 17:16, 18:8, each of which interpret the word the same.

Notwithstanding, this passage agrees totally with the all-consummating character of every other explicit Second Coming passage in Scripture, the day of the Lord sees the immediate destruction of the wicked and also this current world. In short, the day of the Lord will come as thief in the night; in the which:

1. The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise.
2. The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’,
3. The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.
4. The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.

Seeing then that all these things (that is 1-4) shall be ‘luomenoon’ or ‘dissolved / burned up utterly / consumed wholly. The old here is completely consumed by fire in an all-consummating conflagration, in order to make way for the new eternal state. One cannot imagine how the Holy Spirit couple have made the concluding nature of Christ’s Coming simpler or plainer to the human mind in this explicit passage.

DavidPT said:

My question has to do with how are you interpreting the confinement of the locusts that are in the pit. Are they physical spiritual beings in a literal pit of some kind under the surface of the earth, and that while they are shut up in the pit, they physically can't be roaming around the earth at the same time? Or are you interpreting this in a spiritual sense of some kind?

How can satan be persecuting anyone while shut up in the pit? Can these locusts torment anyone while they are shut up in the pit and that no one has opened it? satan is cast into this same pit. satan is shut up in this same pit. Until someone opens the pit, satan is still in the pit, right?

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Revelation is just like every other book in the Bible: it describes two kingdoms that are in constant spiritual conflict with each other. The apostle is giving insight into different aspects of the invisible and visible warfare going on in this current age. When the kingdom of darkness is described it is shown to be currently spiritually restrained and curtailed in regard to their power and influence. The kingdom of God on the other hand is depicted as a triumphant church that bring life and hope to an ignorant world.

Revelation 9 describes an abyss that is full of wicked spirits that are restrained, but will be released prior to the second coming for a short season. This is something Premils choose to overlook. The abyss is inhabited now with Satan's minions. They had a king over them (Abaddon / Apollyon), a ruler who marshalled their hosts. This is Satan - the only king in the kingdom of darkness.

The restraint of the kingdom of darkness stays in effect until just before the second coming, when hell’s legions are collectively released – for a short season at the end. The release of Satan, beast (mystery of iniquity), and demons (scorpions) all occur just prior to the second coming. This proves that the symbolism of Revelation relates to the here-and-now.

Kingdoms and their heads are basically indivisible. The head of each state (whether Monarch, President or Prime Minister) is seen as the face of the nation or the personification of what that nation is all about. They are essentially the voice of the people. Even in United Kingdom law, perpetrators of a crime are listed as “R – v the criminal” meaning “Regina v” in a legal case, Regina referring to the Queen. She is counted as the offended party, even though she was not personally injured. She is simply the representative head of the people. The leader has always been viewed as the one who stands on behalf of countless subjects.

The king and his kingdom are used synonymously and interchangeably throughout Scripture. The kingdom of God is described in Scripture in terms that are identical to God Himself. He is its head and its very purpose for existing; Satan likewise is the same in the kingdom of darkness. The kingdom of darkness is a unitary whole. It is a kingdom with a king. A kingdom is basically “a king with a domain.” The kingdom of God is a kingdom of spiritual truth, and the kingdom of darkness is a kingdom of spiritual lies and deception.

Christ didn't just defeat Satan 2,000 years ago, he defeated the demonic kingdom. Every demonic spirit was subjugated through the cross-work and placed in a place of spiritual restraint after the life, death and resurrection of Christ. The freedom and restriction that pertains to Satan permeates down through his subjects as he is the representative head.

Revelation 9 describes an abyss that is currently full of wicked spirits that are restrained, but will be released prior to the second coming for a short season. This is something Premils choose to overlook. The abyss is inhabited now with Satan's minions. They have a king over them (Abaddon / Apollyon), a ruler who marshals their hosts. This is Satan - the only king in the kingdom of darkness.

Strong's says: “Apolluon means a destroyer (i.e. Satan).”

They had a king (not an abstract idea like you are suggesting) over them (Abaddon / Apollyon), a ruler who marshalled their hosts. This is Satan - the only king in the kingdom of darkness.

Satan is described as “the prince (or ruler) of the devils” in Matthew 9:34, 12:24 and Mark 3:22), although Matthew 9:34 extends the name to “Beelzebub the prince of the devils.”

Premils wrongly divide up the fate of Satan, his demons and the beast into an array of disjointed and unconnected events, which are in truth the same overall event. This is absurd because their fortune is carefully and inextricably tied together by association and divine plan. When Scripture speaks about Satan he is the representative head of the whole kingdom of darkness. When Satan was bound, the kingdom of darkness was bound (including every demon and the beast). When Satan is released prior to the second coming so also is the whole kingdom of darkness (including every demon and the beast). When the Bible says “resist the devil, and he will flee from you” this is not limited to Satan, it is talking about the whole demonic realm.

The book of Revelation consists of a number of parallel recaps relating to the intra-Advent period. Each of these refer to different subjects, entities or aspects of God's unfolding plan during that time. That does not negate the fact that God's dealings with the beast mirrors that of Satan since Christ’s first Advent. The 6th recap (Rev 17-19) focuses in on Babylon, but also shows the destruction of all the wicked, the beast and false prophet been banished into the Lake of Fire. Satan is simply not the focus of that parallel. The focus of the last recap (Revelation 20) is God's dealing with Satan. Revelation 20 goes right back to the first resurrection (Christ). It finishes with Satan being banished to the Lake of Fire.

The fate of Satan, the beast (spirit of antichrist / mystery of iniquity) and the fallen angels (demons) are all knit together in Scripture. They all come under the same spiritual subjugation at the exact same time. When Satan was banished from the Garden then all evil was. When Satan was banished from heaven, so where they all (1/3 of the angels went with him). When Christ bound Satan’s kingdom through His life, death and resurrection then all were bound. 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm is currently restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. Satan has already fell from heaven and now present in the Abyss (Revelation 9:1-11). They are all killed when Satan is destroyed at the climactic Second Coming. The abyss is a spiritual place of restraint for spirits now. We see the devils in Revelation 9:2-3, the beast in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8, and Satan in Revelation 9:10-11 and Revelation 20:3 all being released before the second coming for a little season. Then comes the end! When Satan is released before the second coming for a little season then they all are.

Just like Satan’s power and influence were curtailed through the life, death and first resurrection of Christ, so was the beast’s. The fate of the two mirror each other. The reason is, the beast is dependent upon the power of Satan to do his evil. The beast is his envoy or enforcer. At the end Satan will be released from his restraint to empower the beast to subjugate the Church, curtail the Gospel expanse and deceive the nations again.

keras said:

What does settle this issue, is the fact of there having passed since Adam; almost 6000 years. The exact 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, from Abraham to Jesus, then the Church age until Jesus Returns another 2000 since He was here last.
Then there will be the final 1000 literal years, that Jesus will reign as King on earth.
These time periods parallel the 7 'days' of Creation. God is a God of order and exactly Appointed events. It is surely absurd to believe otherwise.

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Where in the NT, including Rev 20, does it say that Jesus will reign as King on earth. Nowhere! That is a Premil invention that its followers keeps blindingly repeating. Where is your Scripture?

Where does the Bible say there will be 'utter destruction' when Jesus Returns?

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I just showed you in 2 Peter 3, but as usual instead of addressing the sacred text you just voice your personal opinion. That simply does not cut it. There are loads of Scripture like 2 Peter 3 that teach the utter destruction to this current corrupt arrangement and the utter destruction of all the wicked when Jesus comes. No Scripture teaches the ungodly surviving Christ's appearing or the bondage of corruption continuing as today. Creation will be perfected and so will righteous man in order to qualify him to inhabit the new earth.

The wicked, wickedness, sin, death, corruption, decay are removed when Jesus comes to introduce perfection, glorification and eternity. It is the end!

The wicked will all be destroyed at His fiery coming

Isaiah 13:9 says, “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.”

Isaiah 66:15-17: “For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.”

Joel 2:1-3 says, “for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.”

Joel 2:10-11: “The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?”

Nahum 1:1, 5-6 says, “God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies …The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.”

Malachi 4:1 says, “For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up.”

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

Christ plainly and purposefully advanced these two days, where the righteous were graciously rescued just prior to the full annihilation of the wicked, in order to vividly portray the nature and scope of the day of His wrath at the second coming. He deliberates and graphically connected the happenings of both these former days of judgment to the day of His return. Jesus succinctly said, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed” (Luke 17:30).

After speaking of the “days of Noe” and the “days of Lot,” the Lord then describes a singular “day” when the righteous were rescued and the wicked were destroyed. Whilst the Lord presents the rebellion and debauchery that preceded both of these judgments as a sign of how things will exist prior to the day of His all-consummating appearing, the main focus of His teaching relates to the focus and scale of the wrath which did fall on these two solemn days of destruction and how they accurately reflect what will happen at the second coming. Both individually and jointly, they supply us with a stunning insight into the nature of the actual day that Christ’s returns and to the days that precede His glorious Second Coming. In their substance and importance these two Old Testament days are distinct and unique. And whilst the nature of the judgment and geographical extent of both appreciably varies, brought-together, they graphically represent (1) the type of catastrophe coming, and (2) the scale of the destruction at the end. Scripture nowhere separates in time the gathering of the Lord's people to Himself with the destruction of the wicked.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3 confirms this saying: “we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this Coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.

II Thessalonians 1:4-10 records: “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire (1) taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2) When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

The Holy Spirit could hardly have made this more water-tight: men either know God or they don't. To know God is eternal life (John 17:3). This was also the case in Noah and Lot's day. Nothing has changed. If humans know Him, they are rescued at His return, if they do not know Him, they are destroyed. Simple! Premils have no problems with this reality when it comes to Noah and Lot's day. They only get awkward and pedantic when it comes to the second coming, because it negates their doctrine. They feel the need to diminish the scale and timing of the destruction in order to populate their alleged future millennial earth.

Hebrews 10:27 says, “a certain fearful looking for (or expectation) of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”

Revelation 19:11-16 declares: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” What is the result of this act? It shall “smite the nations” that have missed the catching away. This is what awaits the nations. They are going to be smitten. The word for “smite” in this text is the Greek word patasso, which means to strike with a weapon or to smite fatally. It means to smite down, cut down, to kill, slay.

Let us be clear: He is Coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

The two words interpreted “fierceness” and “wrath” here are thumos and orge which are regularly employed in the New Testament to mean ‘fierceness, indignation, wrath and vengeance’. The word orge carries the additional meaning of ‘violent passion’. Clearly the Lord is not happy with those left behind. Like those left behind in Noah’s day and Sodom they face an awful end, as they receive the reward of their rejection of Christ.

Verses 17-18 says, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!