so, if Jesus forbade us making promises, explain marriage vows etc?

Junia

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That's worth a separate thread. If this is a reaction to my summary of differences between liberal and conservative, it's probably true that liberal tend to think more people will be saved (and it's common to think that everyone will be, though I think this is a minority view even among mainline Christians). But it's more complicated than that. Even among evangelicals the are differences about who is saved. And many of us think that only God knows. Few liberals would normally accept the idea that most people are damned. But I'm not sure all conservatives believe that. And of course if you're talking about Catholics the distinctions tend to be different.

Someone asked Jesus whether many would be saved. While not everyone agrees, my understanding of his response was that he never answered, but said "make sure *you* are."

oh well,that is informative. thanks
 
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Soyeong

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So, if Jesus forbade us makng promises, how do we explain the belief amongst christians that marriage vows are ok? christian doctors swearing the Hippocratic Oath? Christians swearing on Bible in court?

this is off the back of a thread i was reading earlier and one poster commented on how we should obey Jesus, and he mentioned that making promises is something Jesus forbade?

God swore by Himself (Genesis 22:16-17, Hebrews 6:13, 7:21), Jesus swore under oath before the Sanhedrin (Matthew 26:63), and Paul also made an oath to the Corinthian church (2 Corinthians 1:23), and made solemn appeals to God (Romans 1:9, Galatians 1:20, Philippians 1:8; 1 Corinthians 15:31, 1 Thessalonians 5:27, Revelation 10:5-6). God commanded His people to swear by His name in Deuteronomy 6:13 and 10:20, and we see many examples of this throughout the OT, such as 1 Kings 2:23 and 1 Samuel 20:3, so Jesus should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying what God has commanded, especially because he upheld vows in Matthew 23:20-22, so he was speaking against making oaths in general, but rather he was only speaking against false oaths

Leviticus 19:12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

Someone who was following the spirit of this law would understand that its intent is for us to not swear falsely, but someone who was following the letter of this law exactly how it is written would understand that we can swear falsely just as long as we don't do so in God's name. The Pharisees were teaching that no oath was binding unless it invoked God's name, so they were swearing by other things in order to give weight to their promises while trying to weasel out of being guilty if they spoke untruthfully, which was what Jesus was criticizing them for doing in Matthew 5:33-37.

This was said in regard to Gentiles:

Jeremiah 12:16-17 And it shall come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of my people, to swear by my name, ‘As the Lord lives,’ even as they taught my people to swear by Baal, then they shall be built up in the midst of my people. 17 But if any nation will not listen, then I will utterly pluck it up and destroy it, declares the Lord.”
 
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Junia

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God swore by Himself (Genesis 22:16-17, Hebrews 6:13, 7:21), Jesus swore under oath before the Sanhedrin (Matthew 26:63), and Paul also made an oath to the Corinthian church (2 Corinthians 1:23), and made solemn appeals to God (Romans 1:9, Galatians 1:20, Philippians 1:8; 1 Corinthians 15:31, 1 Thessalonians 5:27, Revelation 10:5-6). God commanded His people to swear by His name in Deuteronomy 6:13 and 10:20, and we see many examples of this throughout the OT, such as 1 Kings 2:23 and 1 Samuel 20:3, so Jesus should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying what God has commanded, especially because he upheld vows in Matthew 23:20-22, so he was speaking against making oaths in general, but rather he was only speaking against false oaths

Leviticus 19:12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

Someone who was following the spirit of this law would understand that its intent is for us to not swear falsely, but someone who was following the letter of this law exactly how it is written would understand that we can swear falsely just as long as we don't do so in God's name. The Pharisees were teaching that no oath was binding unless it invoked God's name, so they were swearing by other things in order to give weight to their promises while trying to weasel out of being guilty if they spoke untruthfully, which was what Jesus was criticizing them for doing in Matthew 5:33-37.

This was said in regard to Gentiles:

Jeremiah 12:16-17 And it shall come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of my people, to swear by my name, ‘As the Lord lives,’ even as they taught my people to swear by Baal, then they shall be built up in the midst of my people. 17 But if any nation will not listen, then I will utterly pluck it up and destroy it, declares the Lord.”

Thank you. that is what i thought. only i was told by @John Helpher that we must not make promises or anything- apologies @John Helpher if i misunderstood your post- so i was a bit confused.

i honestly do my best to follow Jesus but it is my nature to ask questions. i should maybe give up asking so many. i'm sorry. :(
 
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Soyeong

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Thank you. that is what i thought. only i was told by @John Helpher that we must not make promises or anything- apologies @John Helpher if i misunderstood your post- so i was a bit confused.

i honestly do my best to follow Jesus but it is my nature to ask questions. i should maybe give up asking so many. i'm sorry. :(

Never ever let anyone discourage you from asking questions. Feel free to ask me any questions you have and I will do my best to answer them.
 
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Radagast

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So, if Jesus forbade us makng promises, how do we explain the belief amongst christians that marriage vows are ok?

Jesus said: "... Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil." (Matthew 5:34-37)

So, in typical marriage promises, the minister asks something like:

Do you, M--, take N--, whom you now hold by the hand
to be your lawful and wedded wife, and do you promise in the presence of God and these witnesses to be to her a faithful, loving and devoted husband, so long as you both shall live?


The man answers: I do.

He does not say "by the saints and the holy angels I swear this," or "on the tomb of my grandmother I swear this," -- instead, just like Jesus told us to, he says a simple "yes" or "I do."

(and the same, of course, for the woman)
 
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Junia

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Never ever let anyone discourage you from asking questions. Feel free to ask me any questions you have and I will do my best to answer them.

thank you so much. love and blessings to you <3
 
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