Confused about babies going to heaven if they die

JacksBratt · May 31, 2020

2 Samuel 12:22-23 New International Version (NIV)
22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

The bolded text above tells how David will go to his son but his son will not return to him.

Unless you believe that David went to hell... and he is going to his son.. then the child must be in heaven.

There are those that have never heard the gospel.. or even of the bible for that matter.

They will still be judged by what they were aware of. Check out this scripture:

Romans 1:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

We can see from these bolded words that it is the fact of "being understood" that people are without excuse..

Even when they have no knowledge of the bible accounts, they still have enough to be judged by.

So.. all those poor souls that died before "having knowledge" or being able to "understand" .. will not be considered to be without excuse.

So, rest assured that Christ will not condemn the aborted babies, miscarriages, mentally retarded, and others that never ever reach a point of understanding.

Maria Billingsley · May 31, 2020

Confusedconfusion said:
I have no idea about this topic and the more I read and think about it the more confused I am

1.Let's assume babies go to heaven if they die
a) that makes death of baby not such bad event , yes the mother and father of such baby feel grief but it's actually better for baby to die than to survive on average , because most people will go to hell than to heaven

2 Esdras 8:3
“There be many created, but few shall be saved.”

Matthew 7:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

b) why is God allowing unbelievers grow up to begin with ? He could just have all unbelievers die as babies while allowing only these who would willingly believe in Him to grow , this way he would ensure 100% people going to heaven and would have none in hell while keeping large pool of ressurected people , because God wants more people , Jesus could be son of Adam and Eve and simply restore things back then but God prefered to have more people living in his creation , so this way he ensures most people he can get away with with most people believing in him and saved , saving everybody this way.

c) God has foreknowledge , so he knows for example what would Stalin do , he knew that Stalin would hate him , why let millions of people suffer because of Stalin when he grow up when he could just not be born or die as child , saving Stalin himself from hell and saving millions of other people deaths ?

d) Assuming that babies go to heaven when they die if we wanted to save as many people as possible we should just kill all babies , why risk one growing up and rejecting God if we can ensure person's salvation this way? This is what follows the logic caused by believing kids go to heaven when they die , even tho it sounds horrible to me and is against what I or any sane person would do or what moral values given us by God tell us to do.

2.Let's assume babies don't go to heaven when they die.
a) Why is innocent baby going to hell if it has not done anything ? He/she is literally suffering because of Adam and Eve sin and paying for what their ancestors sins.

b) If that is the cause then it makes sense to try to do everything for person to let it live and not die as child so protect such child by any means, that would line up with God wanting to ensure that these who would believe survive long enought untill they do

Hebrews 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Seems like ministering spirits or how we call them angels are sent to people who will inherit salvation , not for everybody.

c)And again , why is God allowing babies premature die ? He could simply let them just not be born to begin with and this way not have them endlessly tortured in hell. It's not surprise for Him when baby dies he knew it so why did he let him/her die ?
I understand he could let unbeliever be born because such unbeliever could be father of believer , but premature dying baby can't be anybody's father so why let it be born to begin with?

d) Assuming that babies go to hell if they die , that makes killing babies much more serious offence since such person is literally killing another person not just once but letting it to be tortured forever

So in the end Do babies go to Heaven or Hell when they die ? What do you guys think ?
At this point if somebody ask me about it , I literally have to say " don't know sorry" since Bible doesn't support any claim and logic in wrong in both ways disagreeing with moral values given to us by God himself

I guess the real question here is "what is the character of God"? Jesus Christ of Nazareth gave us a glimpse of the Kingdom of Heaven through children. If we think God does not equally love those who die in the womb, through abortion, at birth or at a very young age, then exactly who are these children? Best to think we have a loving God who places children as those who are already in His Kingdom as the innocent. After all, we are to become "as children" in order to enter. Be blessed and stay healthy.

13 Then little children were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” 15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Rachel20 · May 31, 2020

Dave L said:
But babies die in the womb never hearing the law.

Right, and also those that die after birth, but in their youth, which might hear the law, but not understand it. Though they might do something we consider sin, it can't be imputed against them, because they are blind (John 9:41, Romans 5:13). So I believe Paul is talking about this period of his life when he was without the law. Only when he aged and "received" the commandment, did sin revive, and he died.

Der Alte · May 31, 2020

Rachel20 said:
Right, and also those that die after birth, but in their youth, which might hear the law, but not understand it. Though they might do something we consider sin, it can't be imputed against them, because they are blind (John 9:41, Romans 5:13). So I believe Paul is talking about this period of his life when he was without the law. Only when he aged and "received" the commandment, did sin revive, and he died.

Also Romans 4:15.
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Dave L · May 31, 2020

Rachel20 said:
Right, and also those that die after birth, but in their youth, which might hear the law, but not understand it. Though they might do something we consider sin, it can't be imputed against them, because they are blind (John 9:41, Romans 5:13). So I believe Paul is talking about this period of his life when he was without the law. Only when he aged and "received" the commandment, did sin revive, and he died.

It just means "no Law" less sin to pay for. But they die because of sin.

Not David · May 31, 2020

Cshuffle777 said:
If you think the atonement is merely about correcting attitudes, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but God hates all sin every bit as much as He loves the greatest sinner. Do you believe Christ sinned before He was able to recognize it as such? To be sure, to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin (James 4:17), but to God, sin is sin is sin. We are born with the tendency to put self first. God reaches out to us as soon as our reasoning powers are capable to begin cooperating with Him in correcting that tendency. This is precisely why dispensational and covenant Theology has Christendom by the throat. The portion of lessons on righteousness by faith expressed more effectively in the Old Testament are seen as obsolete, mere object lessons from a less-enlightened, and substantially more barbaric period of time than in the "dispensation of grace." Unfortunately, human nature has not changed and in our much more sophisticated and "civilized" way, we fashion ourselves as morally superior to the patriarchs and prophets of old. The notion that infants are innocent by virtue of their infanthood cannot be proven from Scripture. And while it is good and right that we do not hold them accountable for their transgressions, every sin adds to the weight of the burden which crushed the life out of our Savior. The fact that He endured the cross despite the shame does not compensate for reality. In an age when we are careful not to offend anyone except God and sentimentalism reigns supreme, this is a message that is sure to incur even the wrath of many who love God. So be it.

You are telling me nothing.

Not David · May 31, 2020

Dave L said:
They are sin personified. If not, why do they die?

Because of the effects of the fall. Plants die so are sinful?

Dave L · May 31, 2020

Not David said:
Because of the effects of the fall. Plants die so are sinful?

Even the creation is subject to Adam's sin.
“For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,” Romans 8:20 (KJV 1900)

“For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.” Romans 8:22 (KJV 1900)

Not David · May 31, 2020

Dave L said:
Even the creation is subject to Adam's sin.
“For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,” Romans 8:20 (KJV 1900)

“For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.” Romans 8:22 (KJV 1900)

That's what I am saying. It is different than doing the action of sinning.

Cshuffle777 · May 31, 2020

Babies, young children and those that never reach a state of metal cognitive ability at which they can consciously be aware of sin, repentance, salvation, denial... any of these.....can not be held accountable to their actions.

I have a problem with the word "can" in this sentence (not with the person who wrote it, lest any should think so--really--no, really). God does not hold the ignorant accountable for their sins, generally speaking. He is the only expert at tempering justice with mercy. But He can do anything He wants. He's God. That's how things work when You're God. And He is always "aware of sin." We too often speak of God as if He were one of us. As if there were some force He cannot control that renders Him incapable of doing, saying, or thinking things which seem evil to us. He sent an angel to kill all the firstborn of Egypt, many of whom were babies. There has been a tendency in the western world over the past few decades to revere children just short of worshiping them. When I was a child we went to our school bus stops alone. There were no crossing guards and no mothers or fathers there to wave and blow kisses as we rode away. They didn't revoke your driver's license if you pass a school bus as many states now do. The pendulum never stops swinging in human behavior. With God, it is not so. But we pigeonhole Him and re-create Him in our image over and over again. It will be our undoing in the end.

Cshuffle777 · May 31, 2020

Not David said:
You are telling me nothing.

Sorry to bother you.

Dave L · May 31, 2020

Not David said:
That's what I am saying. It is different than doing the action of sinning.

It's part of Adam's curse.

Not David · May 31, 2020

Cshuffle777 said:
Sorry to bother you.

Sorry, but you moved from the talk about "children sinning" that we had.

nolidad · May 31, 2020

Confusedconfusion said:
I have no idea about this topic and the more I read and think about it the more confused I am

1.Let's assume babies go to heaven if they die
a) that makes death of baby not such bad event , yes the mother and father of such baby feel grief but it's actually better for baby to die than to survive on average , because most people will go to hell than to heaven

2 Esdras 8:3
“There be many created, but few shall be saved.”

Matthew 7:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

b) why is God allowing unbelievers grow up to begin with ? He could just have all unbelievers die as babies while allowing only these who would willingly believe in Him to grow , this way he would ensure 100% people going to heaven and would have none in hell while keeping large pool of ressurected people , because God wants more people , Jesus could be son of Adam and Eve and simply restore things back then but God prefered to have more people living in his creation , so this way he ensures most people he can get away with with most people believing in him and saved , saving everybody this way.

c) God has foreknowledge , so he knows for example what would Stalin do , he knew that Stalin would hate him , why let millions of people suffer because of Stalin when he grow up when he could just not be born or die as child , saving Stalin himself from hell and saving millions of other people deaths ?

d) Assuming that babies go to heaven when they die if we wanted to save as many people as possible we should just kill all babies , why risk one growing up and rejecting God if we can ensure person's salvation this way? This is what follows the logic caused by believing kids go to heaven when they die , even tho it sounds horrible to me and is against what I or any sane person would do or what moral values given us by God tell us to do.

2.Let's assume babies don't go to heaven when they die.
a) Why is innocent baby going to hell if it has not done anything ? He/she is literally suffering because of Adam and Eve sin and paying for what their ancestors sins.

b) If that is the cause then it makes sense to try to do everything for person to let it live and not die as child so protect such child by any means, that would line up with God wanting to ensure that these who would believe survive long enought untill they do

Hebrews 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Seems like ministering spirits or how we call them angels are sent to people who will inherit salvation , not for everybody.

c)And again , why is God allowing babies premature die ? He could simply let them just not be born to begin with and this way not have them endlessly tortured in hell. It's not surprise for Him when baby dies he knew it so why did he let him/her die ?
I understand he could let unbeliever be born because such unbeliever could be father of believer , but premature dying baby can't be anybody's father so why let it be born to begin with?

d) Assuming that babies go to hell if they die , that makes killing babies much more serious offence since such person is literally killing another person not just once but letting it to be tortured forever

So in the end Do babies go to Heaven or Hell when they die ? What do you guys think ?
At this point if somebody ask me about it , I literally have to say " don't know sorry" since Bible doesn't support any claim and logic in wrong in both ways disagreeing with moral values given to us by God himself

I saw there are many responses, so without looking at all of them, I will give you what I believe is the best biblical answer.

1.First, there is no age of innocence where children are automatically saved because of "innocence". That is a Catholic invention until they came up with Limbo. Children are by nature sinners and objects of wrath. Eph. 2

2. Jesus said unless a person is born again they cannot see the kingdom of God. No exception, no "well they are too young or they never heard the gospel etc. Rom. 10 Unless one believes one cannot be saved.

3. third this paints a very dim picture for babies being saved! However, we do not know if babies cannot respond to the gospel. John the Baptist leapt in Elizabeth's womb when Mary showed up with Jesus in her womb.

4. Fourth and finally, There is nothing in the NT that says a baby can be saved apart from the gospel. Only by bizarre interpretations can one make a case for that! However, in Romans 9 God says He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy on. That could mean babies or it could not. Bottom line--If God wishes to save BABIES HE LEFT IT EXPLICITLY OUT OF HIS word AND TOLD US IT IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

Albion · May 31, 2020

Albion · May 31, 2020

nolidad said:
First, there is no age of innocence where children are automatically saved because of "innocence". That is a Catholic invention until they came up with Limbo. Children are by nature sinners and objects of wrath.

And now the Catholic Church has gone back to the pre-Limbo POV.

nolidad · May 31, 2020

Hi Albion:

Yeah, every one graduated! So much for the other myth of mortal and venial sina nd water baptism saves.

NBB · May 31, 2020

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

So, if a christian goes to heaven because they are like chidren, then the children obviously they go to heaven too! since we christians, we aspire to be like children!

I don't see why this can't be true.

Cshuffle777 · May 31, 2020

Not David said:
Sorry, but you moved from the talk about "children sinning" that we had.

Sorry I couldn't make what I thought to be relevant sound so.

Radagast · May 31, 2020

nolidad said:
If God wishes to save BABIES HE LEFT IT EXPLICITLY OUT OF HIS word AND TOLD US IT IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

That is a good point. It's not for us to say what God should or should not be doing.

It is the business of Christians to think about what happens to the babies of Christians who die in infancy, and I think the Bible gives us reasons to say that those children go to Heaven.

The Bible is silent on other children.

Confused about babies going to heaven if they die

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