Confused about babies going to heaven if they die

com7fy8 · May 30, 2020

Radagast said:
There are good reasons to say that the children of believers go to Heaven.

About other children, the Bible does not speak.

I have offered another thread for this specific item >

Which babies can die and "go to heaven"? | Christian Forums

Not David · May 30, 2020

Cshuffle777 said:
Yes, they do.

No, they don't

Pavel Mosko · May 30, 2020

Confusedconfusion said:
So in the end Do babies go to Heaven or Hell when they die ? What do you guys think ?

I subscribe to Ancestral Sin, the viewpoint that was the norm in Christianity before Saint Augustine's "Original Sin". Anyway their is the assumption that yes babies would be saved or at the very least it is a mystery and the assumption that they are not automatically damned by Original Sin. And then came Augustine, who made everybody negative, but eventually because of him we get into the Development of Limbo by Medieval Catholicism to correct things somewhat back to where they were before Augustine came along.

coffee4u · May 30, 2020

Confusedconfusion said:
So in the end Do babies go to Heaven ~~or Hell~~ when they die ?

Yes.

Babies have not rejected Jesus, rejecting Jesus is what sends a person to hell.

JIMINZ · May 30, 2020

Der Alte said:
Where do babies, children, mentally handicapped etc. go when they die?

Romans 4:15
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

AND

1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Monksailor · May 30, 2020

I have to agree with you. There is no phrase of "age of accountability" in the Bible. We are told in the Bible that we are born into sin due to Adam, hence having to be born again to be saved from that curse. It makes me feel better to believe as most do about babies and the "age of accountability" but honestly, the Bible does not make any clear statement about this as I can see. It seems to be all conjecture and speculation and wishful thinking in the guise of interpretation.

Please all of the verses in this and other articles citing verses of God's Word saying that we ARE born sinners: Are we all born sinners? | GotQuestions.org

JIMINZ · May 30, 2020

Confusedconfusion said:
I have no idea about this topic and the more I read and think about it the more confused I am

1.Let's assume babies go to heaven if they die
a) that makes death of baby not such bad event , yes the mother and father of such baby feel grief but it's actually better for baby to die than to survive on average , because most people will go to hell than to heaven

2 Esdras 8:3
“There be many created, but few shall be saved.”

Matthew 7:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

b) why is God allowing unbelievers grow up to begin with ? He could just have all unbelievers die as babies while allowing only these who would willingly believe in Him to grow , this way he would ensure 100% people going to heaven and would have none in hell while keeping large pool of ressurected people , because God wants more people , Jesus could be son of Adam and Eve and simply restore things back then but God prefered to have more people living in his creation , so this way he ensures most people he can get away with with most people believing in him and saved , saving everybody this way.

c) God has foreknowledge , so he knows for example what would Stalin do , he knew that Stalin would hate him , why let millions of people suffer because of Stalin when he grow up when he could just not be born or die as child , saving Stalin himself from hell and saving millions of other people deaths ?

d) Assuming that babies go to heaven when they die if we wanted to save as many people as possible we should just kill all babies , why risk one growing up and rejecting God if we can ensure person's salvation this way? This is what follows the logic caused by believing kids go to heaven when they die , even tho it sounds horrible to me and is against what I or any sane person would do or what moral values given us by God tell us to do.

2.Let's assume babies don't go to heaven when they die.
a) Why is innocent baby going to hell if it has not done anything ? He/she is literally suffering because of Adam and Eve sin and paying for what their ancestors sins.

b) If that is the cause then it makes sense to try to do everything for person to let it live and not die as child so protect such child by any means, that would line up with God wanting to ensure that these who would believe survive long enought untill they do

Hebrews 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Seems like ministering spirits or how we call them angels are sent to people who will inherit salvation , not for everybody.

c)And again , why is God allowing babies premature die ? He could simply let them just not be born to begin with and this way not have them endlessly tortured in hell. It's not surprise for Him when baby dies he knew it so why did he let him/her die ?
I understand he could let unbeliever be born because such unbeliever could be father of believer , but premature dying baby can't be anybody's father so why let it be born to begin with?

d) Assuming that babies go to hell if they die , that makes killing babies much more serious offence since such person is literally killing another person not just once but letting it to be tortured forever

So in the end Do babies go to Heaven or Hell when they die ? What do you guys think ?
At this point if somebody ask me about it , I literally have to say " don't know sorry" since Bible doesn't support any claim and logic in wrong in both ways disagreeing with moral values given to us by God himself

It has been said, "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"

You have managed to take all of the little bits of information you possess and balled them all together and come up with a mess which cannot be explained the way you have managed to put it all together.

The way I have always understood it to be is.

A certain Denomination which I will not name, has taught for Centuries that a baby is born with Original Sin and therefore Must be Baptized at birth in order for them to go to Heaven.

No one was ever born with Original sin......Period.

All of mankind was born with the effects of Original sin, which is a Physical death penalty, and the future of sin in their life whereby, they will need a Savior.

But for anyone to say a new born baby has sin, is not only ludicrous, it's down right stupid.

Cshuffle777 · May 30, 2020

Not David said:
No, they don't

If you think the atonement is merely about correcting attitudes, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but God hates all sin every bit as much as He loves the greatest sinner. Do you believe Christ sinned before He was able to recognize it as such? To be sure, to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin (James 4:17), but to God, sin is sin is sin. We are born with the tendency to put self first. God reaches out to us as soon as our reasoning powers are capable to begin cooperating with Him in correcting that tendency. This is precisely why dispensational and covenant Theology has Christendom by the throat. The portion of lessons on righteousness by faith expressed more effectively in the Old Testament are seen as obsolete, mere object lessons from a less-enlightened, and substantially more barbaric period of time than in the "dispensation of grace." Unfortunately, human nature has not changed and in our much more sophisticated and "civilized" way, we fashion ourselves as morally superior to the patriarchs and prophets of old. The notion that infants are innocent by virtue of their infanthood cannot be proven from Scripture. And while it is good and right that we do not hold them accountable for their transgressions, every sin adds to the weight of the burden which crushed the life out of our Savior. The fact that He endured the cross despite the shame does not compensate for reality. In an age when we are careful not to offend anyone except God and sentimentalism reigns supreme, this is a message that is sure to incur even the wrath of many who love God. So be it.

Cshuffle777 · May 31, 2020

JIMINZ said:
All of mankind was born with the effects of Original sin, which is a Physical death penalty, and the future of sin in their life whereby, they will need a Savior.

Even Christ? Think before you scoff.

JAL · May 31, 2020

JIMINZ said:
But for anyone to say a new born baby has sin, is not only ludicrous, it's down right stupid.

Actually it's not. Rather it seems downright stupid to insist that an infinitely kind,holy, fair, just God allows innocent fetuses to starve to death in the womb, or suffer from diseases, genetic defects, natural calamities, parental addictions, and so on.

If you can't make sense of this, see my previous post.

Radagast · May 31, 2020

JIMINZ said:
But for anyone to say a new born baby has sin, is not only ludicrous, it's down right stupid.

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalms 51:5)

JIMINZ · May 31, 2020

Cshuffle777 said:
Even Christ? Think before you scoff.

The scoffing is only in your mind not mine.

I take this subject very seriously.

1213 · May 31, 2020

Confusedconfusion said:
...So in the end Do babies go to Heaven or Hell when they die ? What do you guys think ?
...

I know that eternal life is promised for righteous and that it is not right to murder. If person is righteous, he will live, but I don’t know who are righteous. And this is why, I don’t recommend to murder anyone.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Richard T · May 31, 2020

Here is the two scriptures I was taught on this subject.
John 1:9 (KJV)
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
So every man is lit. Next, they lose this when they reject God. Lit to darkened. If you never had a chance, like a baby, then you remain lit and should go to heaven.
Romans 1:21 (KJV)
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Dave L · May 31, 2020

---SE---

They are still members of a corrupt species in Adam who die because the wages of sin is death.

Dave L · May 31, 2020

Not David said:
Babies don't sin.

They are sin personified. If not, why do they die?

Dave L · May 31, 2020

Rachel20 said:
My proof text for an age of accountability -

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Romans 7:9

But babies die in the womb never hearing the law.

Bobber · May 31, 2020

Radagast said:
There are good reasons to say that the children of believers go to Heaven.

About other children, the Bible does not speak.

IMO all babies and children go to heaven. You don't have a scripture that actually uses these words but one needs to ask the question, why should God even have to. There are times folks where God expects one to accept what should be self evident based on what we know of is character.

tturt · May 31, 2020

"Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence." Matt 19:13-15

Doesnt state the ages of the children. We still have to give our hearts to the Lord.

JacksBratt · May 31, 2020

Can you answer a question before it's asked?
Can you fail a test before it's taken?
Can you like or dislike a food before it is tasted?
Can you follow instructions before they are written?
Can you fall off a roof before the house is built?
Can you drown in a pool before it is filled with water?

Babies, young children and those that never reach a state of metal cognitive ability at which they can consciously be aware of sin, repentance, salvation, denial... any of these.....can not be held accountable to their actions.

God is love. He is righteous. There is no way that He would condemn a soul that is not even aware of its transgressions or the method of which be atoned for them.

We are all on the road to hell because we all have sinned.
We are saved from this when, being knowledgeable of our sins, we humble our hearts and accept the fact that we are powerless to do anything to save ourselves... and Christ knew this and paid our price.

Until a soul reaches a level of conscience where it can understand that it has done wrong... how can it be condemned?

Confused about babies going to heaven if they die

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