Why do so many Christians support political positions which protect selfishness?

Junia · May 30, 2020

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
So you want Government to take over the functions which religious charity and personal donations should do? Plus there are other concerns than just charity. 'Liberal' or left leading parties are often anti-Christian in outlook. From everything to education and abortion, which I view as a higher priority than charity.

I would also call into question the effectiveness of government. How long as the war on poverty in the USA been going on and what has it accomplished exactly? No matter how much money these programs have they never solve the problem, mainly because they can't. It's the people who have to solve their own problems for the most part.

It's not exactly selfish to want to keep your money from a government who will likely misuse those funds to un-Christian ends. Maybe if western secular governments had a Christian ethos I might agree with you, but they don't (by in large), they have a secular ethos which disregards the truthfulness of faith and it has only resulted in the disintegration of faith.

To support such a system seems utterly unwise to me from a Christian perspective. Not so much from a secular atheistic perspective or any other group that stands to profit from it, but Christians don't. Christians should themselves be the ones to be considered who donate and help others, not secular governments.

But how do those of us who have serious disabilities and thus unable to work fix ourselves? i mean, i understnad that the church and charities should be taking care of our needs but they arent. maybe not able to rather than unwilling? if so, we have no choice but to use the welfare system....i dont see it as a sin issue. a loving God wont cast me into hell for being on welfare. God is love.

Junia · May 30, 2020

SimplyMe said:
Again, the cheapest foods tend to be the ones that are over processed and high calorie. And why single out the poor when all Americans (on average) are overweight?

What exactly makes "food deserts" a myth? The fact you have a car and so going 5-10 miles to a grocery store is no issue for you? I mentioned above my personal experience -- in a major US city where I'm lucky to live relatively close to a bus stop; and I wasn't on welfare/food stamps.

I'd say much of it is because of Brown v Board of Education, and the various follow up attempts to ensure all children get a quality education, to prevent poor kids from going to underfunded schools.

I think that is more because of "fear" of the perils for kids, how we have constant news reports of pedophiles, kids getting kidnapped, or even just the dangers of walking to school (traffic). I remember being taught about being wary of adults offering candy, to not get into a car with someone I didn't know, etc.

I personally don't see a difference between when I went to school in the 60s and today. I even remember being threatened in the mid-60s because I preferred to walk most days -- I lived a couple of miles from the school and could walk home faster than the bus got me home. Then again, if it was very cold, particularly if there was precipitation, the bus looked a lot better. Basically, I was told I had to chose to always walk or always take the bus -- I couldn't choose which I wanted each day.

Did you go to school prior to the 60s? Then again, you'll be happy to know that my kids got to walk to school, we didn't drive them.

So let me give you the challenge -- as you point out, walking is the king of exercise -- park your car in your garage for a month. I'm guessing you are retired, so you have plenty of time; find alternative means to get to the store to get groceries (and not relying on friends, which for the poor also don't have cars), to do the errands you need to do. If you have a job, it will just add to the challenge. Though, to be fair, exactly how tough it is depends on where you live.

obesity does tend to be a poverty related disease in the western world. cheap food being full of hidden sugar, salt, refined carbs, highly processed. and that is not even mentioning many slim people who have visceral fat (inside fat) from that kind of diet. same health issues. (maybe exception of sleep apnes or joint problems which can be caused by excess fat)

OldWiseGuy · May 30, 2020

SimplyMe said:
Again, the cheapest foods tend to be the ones that are over processed and high calorie. And why single out the poor when all Americans (on average) are overweight?

Actually from nutritional point of view junk food is the most expensive. Good food is cheap. The poor can't afford to be unhealthy, the rest of us can.

SimplyMe said:
What exactly makes "food deserts" a myth? The fact you have a car and so going 5-10 miles to a grocery store is no issue for you? I mentioned above my personal experience -- in a major US city where I'm lucky to live relatively close to a bus stop; and I wasn't on welfare/food stamps.

A food desert is deemed a quality food store more than 1 1/2 miles away. There are very few people than live that far from a good food market. Most of the poor have cars or access to cheap transportation. The poorest of the poor likely live or camp very close to food sources.

SimplyMe said:
I'd say much of it is because of Brown v Board of Education, and the various follow up attempts to ensure all children get a quality education, to prevent poor kids from going to underfunded schools.

Forced busing is wrong, and is a means to ensure that the kids actually attend the schools that they are ordered to attend.

SimplyMe said:
I think that is more because of "fear" of the perils for kids, how we have constant news reports of pedophiles, kids getting kidnapped, or even just the dangers of walking to school (traffic). I remember being taught about being wary of adults offering candy, to not get into a car with someone I didn't know, etc

Kids usually walk in groups if they are going to the same place. That's pretty safe. Also pedophiles should be imprisoned for life (by their own admission they cannot be rehabilitated)...end of threat.

SimplyMe said:
I personally don't see a difference between when I went to school in the 60s and today. I even remember being threatened in the mid-60s because I preferred to walk most days -- I lived a couple of miles from the school and could walk home faster than the bus got me home. Then again, if it was very cold, particularly if there was precipitation, the bus looked a lot better. Basically, I was told I had to chose to always walk or always take the bus -- I couldn't choose which I wanted each day.

Did you go to school prior to the 60s? Then again, you'll be happy to know that my kids got to walk to school, we didn't drive them.

I started school, Kindergarten, in 1945. As soon as I learned the way I, and most others, walked regardless of how far it was (there was only one parent, a mother, who walked her kid home after school). I was about the farthest that I knew of, at about 1 1/4 miles one way (estimate). Later in high school many kids walked 2 plus miles one way, mainly because the buses were packed at that time of day, and they didn't mind walking.

Never got a ride to school until I had my own car as a hs senior (then I got so many parking tickets that I left it home). I also rode my bike sometimes, but the bike rack was usually full so I quit that as well.

SimplyMe said:
So let me give you the challenge -- as you point out, walking is the king of exercise -- park your car in your garage for a month. I'm guessing you are retired, so you have plenty of time; find alternative means to get to the store to get groceries (and not relying on friends, which for the poor also don't have cars), to do the errands you need to do. If you have a job, it will just add to the challenge. Though, to be fair, exactly how tough it is depends on where you live.

The bus stop is right next to my house, and stops less than a block from my supermarket, which is in a huge shopping center. My bank is there also, as well as an ACE hardware store (very necessary for me). The buses run so often that I could get home, 1 1/2 miles away, before the ice cream melts. I can also get a seniors bus pass cheap. Big stuff or hard to find stuff I buy online. I also shop at the building centers located a good drive away, but as I'm not retired that doesn't really count.

Why, and how, would a poor person 'retire'?

Speedwell · May 30, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Actually from nutritional point of view junk food is the most expensive. Good food is cheap. The poor can't afford to be unhealthy, the rest of us can.

A food desert is deemed a quality food store more than 1 1/2 miles away. There are very few people than live that far from a good food market. Most of the poor have cars or access to cheap transportation. The poorest of the poor likely live or camp very close to food sources.

Forced busing is wrong, and is a means to ensure that the kids actually attend the schools that they are ordered to attend.

Kids usually walk in groups if they are going to the same place. That's pretty safe. Also pedophiles should be imprisoned for life (by their own admission they cannot be rehabilitated)...end of threat.

I started school, Kindergarten, in 1945. As soon as I learned the way I, and most others, walked regardless of how far it was (there was only one parent, a mother, who walked her kid home after school). I was about the farthest that I knew of, at about 1 1/4 miles one way (estimate). Later in high school many kids walked 2 plus miles one way, mainly because the buses were packed at that time of day, and they didn't mind walking.

Never got a ride to school until I had my own car as a hs senior (then I got so many parking tickets that I left it home). I also rode my bike sometimes, but the bike rack was usually full so I quit that as well.

The bus stop is right next to my house, and stops less than a block from my supermarket, which is in a huge shopping center. My bank is there also, as well as an ACE hardware store (very necessary for me). The buses run so often that I could get home, 1 1/2 miles away, before the ice cream melts. I can also get a seniors bus pass cheap. Big stuff or hard to find stuff I buy online. I also shop at the building centers located a good drive away, but as I'm not retired that doesn't really count.

You certainly enjoy many advantages compared to the truly poor. I hope you're thankful.

Why, and how, would a poor person 'retire'?

No social security or medicare for the poor? You need to re-think your stereotypes.

Junia · May 30, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Perhaps they should have read their bibles before they started families that they couldn't afford. Proverbs 24:27

wow. this attitude is so far from the Jesus of the Bible i can;t even.....

hedrick · May 30, 2020

The link between poverty and obesity isn’t so clear. https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...3a61e4-8ac8-11e8-a345-a1bf7847b375_story.html

OldWiseGuy · May 30, 2020

Speedwell said:
You certainly enjoy many advantages compared to the truly poor. I hope you're thankful.

I grew up when poor actually meant poor. This is me, about age 10. Have you seen any 'truly poor' kids dressed this way today? I look skinny but we were well fed. We just ran it off playing outside. There aren't many 'truly poor' kids today that are as trim as I was. But yes, I'm thankful for the great life I've had, even the poor years were great. But my experience doesn't provide for much sympathy for most of todays so-called poor.

Speedwell said:
No social security or medicare for the poor? You need to re-think your stereotypes.

I'm still working, and receiving SS and Medicare. I couldn't afford (and didn't want) to retire at age 65 1/2.

OldWiseGuy · May 30, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
wow. this attitude is so far from the Jesus of the Bible i can;t even.....

Jesus wasn't always Mr. Niceguy (I actually like that side of him).

OldWiseGuy · May 30, 2020

Fantine said:
I am retired now. I always had white collar jobs-- secretarial, public relations, journalism, music ministry and music teaching. Hardest job I ever had was at a department store when I was 18.
Most of the low paid workers I know worked harder physically in 2 hours than I would in a week.
No wonder why so many have broken bodies at age 50. I respect their work....

To people like me who love hard work...it's play. There are those who don't understand that, or the joy of hard work itself.

A friend and I cut, baled, and stored a large field of hay for his uncle-in-law over a hot summer weekend. His uncle came to see our progress and was dumbfounded that the job was entirely completed. He walked back and forth looking at the empty field, the barn, us, the gauge on the elevator that counted the bales of hay, trying to figure out how we did it. He was an insurance man who was not at all familiar with hard work.

Both of us worked as meat cutters and did this task after a 40 hour week of lifting and processing thousands of pounds of meat. It was fun.

OldWiseGuy · May 30, 2020

Speedwell said:
It would be cruel and wouldn't really solve the problem.

Sometimes some discomfort and inconvenience is necessary to get the job done.

cappycappy · May 31, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
But how do those of us who have serious disabilities and thus unable to work fix ourselves? i mean, i understnad that the church and charities should be taking care of our needs but they arent. maybe not able to rather than unwilling? if so, we have no choice but to use the welfare system.....

I find it odd that some Christians condemn being on welfare as a sin, but also won't give charity to people in their congregation who have desperate need.
Then they get angry when they see homeless people roaming the streets.
They need to start offering some solutions or help, even if it's just a sack of food for a person who just lost their job, or a few dollars.

Evan Jellicoe · May 31, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Jesus wasn't always Mr. Niceguy (I actually like that side of him).

That is true. However, that side of Him generally was shown only to two types of people:
1) religious leaders who did and taught the opposite of what God commanded
2) merchants who put money above God.
also, occasionally:
3) his own disciples when they were particularly thick-headed

OldWiseGuy · May 31, 2020

Evan Jellicoe said:
That is true. However, that side of Him generally was shown only to two types of people:
1) religious leaders who did and taught the opposite of what God commanded
2) merchants who put money above God.
also, occasionally:
3) his own disciples when they were particularly thick-headed

He also got short with his mother.

Junia · May 31, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
I grew up when poor actually meant poor. This is me, about age 10. Have you seen any 'truly poor' kids dressed this way today? I look skinny but we were well fed. We just ran it off playing outside. There aren't many 'truly poor' kids today that are as trim as I was. But yes, I'm thankful for the great life I've had, even the poor years were great. But my experience doesn't provide for much sympathy for most of todays so-called poor.
View attachment 277931

I'm still working, and receiving SS and Medicare. I couldn't afford (and didn't want) to retire at age 65 1/2.

well God doesnt approve nor condemn us on the basis of weight or how much money we have. read some J Nicole Morgan, she is an obese christian who has a great perspective on that issue.

Junia · May 31, 2020

well once we are born aain we do not receive any condmenation from Jesus if we keep following His spirit. swo Jesus is very gentle and tender with us. He corrects, He convicts, but there is no hellfire and wrath in it at all. not for us.

Junia · May 31, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Jesus wasn't always Mr. Niceguy (I actually like that side of him).

we are born again which means we do not face condemnation. if we keep following Jesus and do not reject Him, he is gentle and tender to us. he corrects, yes, he convicts but i do not feel any convixtion at all about taking welfare. i will get a job when He heals me of my disabilities which were not my choosing.

Junia · May 31, 2020

cappycappy said:
I find it odd that some Christians condemn being on welfare as a sin, but also won't give charity to people in their congregation who have desperate need.
Then they get angry when they see homeless people roaming the streets.
They need to start offering some solutions or help, even if it's just a sack of food for a person who just lost their job, or a few dollars.

agree. they want to send mone to little babies in Africa (fine nothign wrong with that) but refuse to care for the drug addict on the streets. did Jesus ever make a distinction between desrving and underservig poor??? no. because that is not in the Bible.

OldWiseGuy · May 31, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
we are born again which means we do not face condemnation. if we keep following Jesus and do not reject Him, he is gentle and tender to us. he corrects, yes, he convicts but i do not feel any convixtion at all about taking welfare. i will get a job when He heals me of my disabilities which were not my choosing.

And I am happy to contribute to those welfare programs. I consider it an honor to be able to help those in real need.

OldWiseGuy · May 31, 2020

cappycappy said:
I find it odd that some Christians condemn being on welfare as a sin, but also won't give charity to people in their congregation who have desperate need.
Then they get angry when they see homeless people roaming the streets.
They need to start offering some solutions or help, even if it's just a sack of food for a person who just lost their job, or a few dollars.

Those "Christians" might actually be "tares". "By their deeds ye shall know them".

Junia · May 31, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
And I am happy to contribute to those welfare programs. I consider it an honor to be able to help those in real need.[/Q

thanks so much. i hope God lets me go to heaven when i die in spite of needing welfare?

Why do so many Christians support political positions which protect selfishness?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Similar threads