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So, I think we can discuss this here.
One scripture I think of is >
1 Corinthians 7:14
So, what do we have about this?
Which babies can die and "go to heaven"?
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One scripture I think of is >
1 Corinthians 7:14
So, what do we have about this?
- Jan 28, 2002
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Hello @WrappedUpinHisLove3, I believe that those among us who die as unborn babies, infants or toddlers, are all elect, and they go to be with the Lord upon their deaths because they are.
If that's not what happens to them, what does? (I should point out that I agree with @Radagast, that this is a matter of conjecture, because the Bible never tells us what happens to them)
God always judges justly, and He does so on the basis of what a person 1. knows and 2. understands (of the law and of sin/right and wrong, even if the only law they've ever known is the law that He wrote on their hearts .. Romans 2:12-16) or 3. on the basis of "Who" he/she knows (Jesus), but embryos, fetuses, infants and toddlers have neither knowledge nor understanding of any soteriological matters, and they do not know/believe in Jesus.
So again, if they do not go to be with the Lord upon their deaths, but will be required to stand in the Judgment of the reprobate (Great White Throne), on what basis would God judge & condemn any of these little ones? (His judgment of us is based upon what we do/say/think, not on our nature, fallen though it may be)
Thanks!
--David
If that's not what happens to them, what does? (I should point out that I agree with @Radagast, that this is a matter of conjecture, because the Bible never tells us what happens to them)
God always judges justly, and He does so on the basis of what a person 1. knows and 2. understands (of the law and of sin/right and wrong, even if the only law they've ever known is the law that He wrote on their hearts .. Romans 2:12-16) or 3. on the basis of "Who" he/she knows (Jesus), but embryos, fetuses, infants and toddlers have neither knowledge nor understanding of any soteriological matters, and they do not know/believe in Jesus.
So again, if they do not go to be with the Lord upon their deaths, but will be required to stand in the Judgment of the reprobate (Great White Throne), on what basis would God judge & condemn any of these little ones? (His judgment of us is based upon what we do/say/think, not on our nature, fallen though it may be)
Thanks!
--David
Romans 2
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,
15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
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12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,
15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
.
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DavidPT
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I tend to look at it from a perspective others may not have considered before.
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The first thing to take note of is this----and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works---and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
In order to even be at this judgment, where this judgment leads to many getting cast into the lake of fire, there has to be books, where in these books there are recorded deeds done by the dead being judged. As to babies that die as babies. What deeds could possibly be written in these books about them that they are then being judged about? What works could they have possibly done as babies, that they would be being judged according to? Zero that I can think of myself. Therefore, and I can't speak for others, but speaking for myself, I am left to conclude but one thing, and that one thing is, all babies can die and go to heaven, every single one of them.
Maybe others require more proof. I don't. The above adequetly proves it to me, because no baby that died as a baby could possibly be at the judgment recorded in Revelation 20. Because no baby that dies as a baby could possibly have deeds written about them in books where God is then going to judge them according to the deeds they did before they died. The above in Revelation 20 makes it abundantly clear, every single person at this judgment, without exception, have their deeds recorded in books, and that they are all being judged according to these deeds they did in life recorded in these books. And once again, this couldn't possibly be applicable to babies who die as babies, since it is nonsensical to think that babies that die as babies, that they too have deeds they have to answer for.
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For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. (1 Corinthians 7:14)
Yes, that's one of the texts I had in mind to support the idea that the children of believers go to Heaven -- they are holy, they belong to Christ.
That text doesn't tell us anything about the children of unbelievers, though.
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In my opinion, God has given us some Scripture (like 1 Corinthians 7:14) to reassure Christian parents.
What happens to the children of unbelievers is really up to God, and the Bible doesn't really spell things out.
That said, a number of standard theological positions carry implications that go one way or the other. If you're with Augustine on the guilt of original sin, that carries implications. If you're with Luis de Molina on God having "middle knowledge" of what people would have done in counterfactual circumstances, that carries implications too. If you think that children are born without sin, that carries different implications. If you're with the Calvinists on "unconditional election," that carries implications as well.
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- Nov 14, 2017
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Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 18:3
And said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:14
So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
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