Funny, I thought this thread was supposed to be about potential Biden voters, not conservatives or socialists.
Yeah, agree, the premise is great in theory. Unfortunately we can't vote in theory without messing up things in the real world.
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What line would Biden have to cross for him to be a non-viable candidate
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Yeah, agree, the premise is great in theory. Unfortunately we can't vote in theory without messing up things in the real world.
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I posted historical threads calling Trump out on the same issues, and an historical thread looking at support for third party voting based on non-intervention.
The reason for this thread is the people who were talking about the moral issues with Trump were then giving Biden a pass. They should not give either a pass.
Your conspiracy theory about my thread has no basis.
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You just made the case for neither of them being fit. They both work with repressive regimes.
However, there is a distinction between negotiating with them and cooperating with them. I don't fault the Obama administration for instance on paying back a debt we owed to Iran, though he got flack for it. I don't blame him for trying to negotiate with them.
I don't blame Trump for trying to negotiate with North Korea either, though you have to be careful as they have a history of acting poorly to get concessions.
But cooperating with the Saudis in war crimes is a different issue. And both have done it.
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So the plan was to start criticizing Trump since 2017 so I could decide to now vote for him? Not the best conspiracy theory.
The problem is you need evidence FOR the conspiracy you made up. All of my statements here have been clear. People should not vote for either.
Most of my 2020 posts were about Coronavirus, not the upcoming race. However, in another thread I was arguing for third party voting. And I corrected a Trump supporter who was defending his grab 'em statement.
Most of the same people were in that thread and already know what I was arguing for. But they have to support Biden somehow.
Biden might be in trouble.
The current president does not have a racist bone in his body...
Here is my statement noting that Trump used a phrase that would violate discrimination laws:
You buried the lead on this one. Rename the thread Trump violates law against discriminating based on ethnic origin.
And I checked out the way back machine for January 2019.
Facts About Employment Rights of Immigrants Under Federal Anti-Discrimination Laws
They didn't just add the "go back where you came from" language after this event.
That is proof, for those who were disputing it, that it is a known phrase with a history of use in discrimination.
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This is how I look at comments that both Biden and Trump are imperfect.
I am stranded on a sinking ship (with 330 million others). I want to get to safety. I have two choices:
I am stranded on a sinking ship (with 330 million others). I want to get to safety. I have two choices:
- I can climb into a lifeboat and grab an oar, and help guide the course to safety.
- I can jump onto the back of an alligator and hope he doesn't throw me off his back and devour me.
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Yeah, why not just run that video of Biden as a campain ad, how he will lock up the people and doesn't care if they are victims of society. Maybe you could make up T-shirts.
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I bet if you tried to put that video of Biden on Twitter, they'd put an "inaccurate" warning on it.
All over America there are sadder but wiser people who said on January 20, 2017, that "Hillary was worse!"
I almost fell over in shock, wondering which alternate universe they had been transported from.
Today, tens of thousands of lies, abuses of power, misappropriating government funds, and appointing unqualified lobbyists and grifters later, I feel sure that many of them have wondered how they could have ever had such a lapse of judgment and common sense.
All over America there are sadder but wiser people who said on January 20, 2017, that "Hillary was worse!"
I almost fell over in shock, wondering which alternate universe they had been transported from.
Today, tens of thousands of lies, abuses of power, misappropriating government funds, and appointing unqualified lobbyists and grifters later, I feel sure that many of them have wondered how they could have ever had such a lapse of judgment and common sense.
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And why would they put an inaccurate warning on a video of Biden giving a speech on the Senate floor?
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So what do you think he was saying? And why did CNN take him out of context?
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Note that we were discussing what relationship the US ought to have with Saudi Arabia, if any.
Disavowing relationship ... or support for improving their human rights stance, based upon them being a "repressive regime" is a bit much, I think.
As this week demonstrates ... the US has a few issues of its own with internal repression ...
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If you are voting for him, you are giving him a pass. Same as those who voted for Trump.
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We certainly have issues with police tactics and training.
However, here is the state Department report on the Saudis:
Saudi Arabia - United States Department of State
Significant human rights issues included: unlawful killings; executions for nonviolent offenses; forced disappearances; torture of prisoners and detainees by government agents; arbitrary arrest and detention; political prisoners; arbitrary interference with privacy; criminalization of libel, censorship, and site blocking; restrictions on freedoms of peaceful assembly, association, and movement; severe restrictions of religious freedom; citizens’ lack of ability and legal means to choose their government through free and fair elections; trafficking in persons; violence and official discrimination against women, although new women’s rights initiatives were implemented; criminalization of consensual same-sex sexual activity; and prohibition of trade unions.
I already posted two statements that they were supporting terrorists. And of course, they are terrible at targeting, with a third of their bombing targets being civilians, but you are convinced that was an accident.
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This needs a lot more discussion before such a conclusion is warranted.
Initially, I'd have to ask why you think Saudi Arabia is any more repressive the the US, for example. The US has participated in many more military endeavors than SA ... starting with Korea, Vietnam, Irag, Afhanistan, Kuwait, etc.
Clearly we have issues with violence, as this week evidences ... as well as our multiple mass shootings. We believe in being prepared for armed conflict ... there are more guns in America than Americans, ... and the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution affirms that right for us.
In the midst of this, we have a national leader ... who is leading us backwards away from the progress we've made ... so that we have become MORE violent, and MORE apt to saber-rattle rather than negotiate.
This president has encouraged division in our country between our better selves and our worst.
We need someone who can heal the divisions between us ... and again encourage us to be our better selves here in the US, ... before we can hope to export any betterment to the world.
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TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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One of whom openly admires and seeks to imitate them.
Perhaps you should be made aware of the important distinction between "bad" and "worse"?
...and succeeding.
But again, this isn't about negotiation or cooperation... Donald openly admires them and seeks to emulate them.
Let that sink in.
And since Donald wasn't careful (mainly because he never is). he ended up squandering whatever credibility he might have had for a handful of magic beans.
Trump praises Kim Jong-un's 'great and beautiful' vision for his country
'Why shouldn't I like him?' Trump piled praise on Kim Jong Un in his first interview since their summit collapsed
In Japan, Trump praises Kim Jong Un, rails against U.S. border wall ruling
Foreign policy is about making deals with the devil... and praying you picked the right devil.
Donald did it for blood money. Go ahead and tell yourself that's no worse.
What choice do you have?
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That's not true.
I find Biden to be a highly appropriate candidate ... for this moment in time in the US ...
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Saudi Arabia is not considered terroristic, and certainly wasn't considered to be so back in 2015, when we were still dealing with Al Quda, and a newly arising Isis, plus more of the same from Hezbollah and Hamas ...
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Why would I have to say that Donald is no worse in order to say Biden is too bad to vote for? My point is they are both too bad to vote for. Once you are helping kill thousands of innocent people you have reached the point I am not voting for you.
Mass murderer 1 may have killed more than mass murderer 2. I am not voting for either of them as president.
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They were in fact known to be supporting terrorists. I already posted the statements. Are you reading them?
Congrats! - WikiLeaks
While this military/para-military operation is moving forward, we need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to ISIL and other radical Sunni groups in the region.
We finally know what Hillary Clinton knew all along – Saudi Arabia is funding Isis
Vice-President Joe Biden told students at Harvard in October 2014 that Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates “were so determined to take down Assad and essentially have a proxy Sunni-Shia war. What did they do? They poured hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad. Except that the people who were being supplied were al-Nusra and al-Qaeda and the extremist elements of jihadis coming from other parts of the world”
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