What line would Biden have to cross for him to be a non-viable candidate

tall73 said:

I asked you to stop peddling conspiracy theories about me. I did not vote for Trump, and do not support Trump.

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Implying Biden voters should instead vote third party does support Donald in the upcoming election though.

I suppose it depends on how many death threats Biden has tweeted out in the past week...

tall73 said:

He was the chair of the Foreign Relations Committee. He had a lead role in that decision.

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Every federal official, with the exception of just a few, ... supported that decision ... as did many of our allies ...

tall73 said:

Death threats are terrible.

Even worse is being part of killing thousands of innocent people which Joe backed in Yemen., and which Trump continued.

Do you care about the people they actually kill, or just the statements?

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I care about people. And while you are correct in that both candidates are responsible for the deaths in Yemen (although only one actually had the power to stop it -- which he chose not to do), only one of them has repeatedly encouraged violence against his own citizens... and I'm just talking about the past three days.

I have to care about what's happening closer to home... at home, in fact.

People are dying here as well as in Yemen... but who cares, right?

tall73 said:

Death threats are terrible.

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... as are the actual deaths of Americans through inaction.

A president must be prepared to deal with and guide us through any myriad of varying circumstances and situations ... to the best of their ability ...

tall73 said:

I am also urging Trump voters to vote third party. I am not wanting to help either one of them.

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If this is a true statement you will be able to point me to the mirror thread to this one titled “What line would Trump have to cross to be a non-viable candidate” where I can see you argue just as strongly against any argument given like you have here.

tall73 said:

I am also urging Trump voters to vote third party. I am not wanting to help either one of them.

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Yes, that is what you've maintained, and it applies to both conservatives and socialists alike. My difficulty is not with the concept, which is both fair and understandable, but with the options that are available to anyone who is inclined to vote third party. IMO, it's hard to find one that acts like it's serious, i.e. focused, consistent, organized, etc.

tall73 said:

I am arguing we get rid of both. We should care about people, and not just the ones at home. But then here is Biden talking about those at home, back when the political winds were different. You can watch the video.

Joe Biden in 1993 speech warned of 'predators on our streets' - CNN Video

We must take back the streets. It doesn't matter whether or not they were deprived as a youth, it doesn't matter whether or not they had a background to become socialized into the fabric of society. It doesn't matter whether or not they are the victims of society. The end result is they are about to knock my mother on the head with a lead pipe, shoot my sister, beat up my wife, take on my sons, so I don't want to ask what made them do this. They must be taken off the streets."

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I didn't hear anything in Biden's words about shooting them... you?

tall73 said:

Because I can't keep up with all the ridiculous statements of Trump, is this in regard to the looting starting then the shooting? Or the only good Democrat is a dead one....er politically" retweet? Or a new one?

They are all to be condemned.

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They should be... but I see too many of Donald's obedient followers beginning to nod their heads.

Now since Biden was just for locking them up, which happened, are you going to defend that?

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I'd rather see rioters locked up as opposed to shot... wouldn't you?

But he participated in the blowing up of men women and children in Yemen, backing a repressive regime.

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Which repressive Regime? Saudi Arabia, Russia, Turkey, North Korea, or any other of Donald's heroes?

Don't try to put Biden in the moral low ground on this one... Donald's dug his own hole way too deep.

tall73 said:

Here is a thread calling out Trump's action in Yemen, and asking the resistance to resist it.

If you want to resist Trump.....

If you want to resist Trump then a good place to start is speaking out about his support for the Saudi's war in Yemen. Trump vetoed the joint resolution to end unauthorized military action in Yemen.

S.J.Res.7 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): A joint resolution to direct the removal of United States Armed Forces from hostilities in the Republic of Yemen that have not been authorized by Congress.

Trump vetoes measure to end US involvement in Yemen war

Is there any constitutional basis for him to veto congress regarding conducting of warfare?

We aided in refueling planes, provided intelligence etc. for airstrikes. These airstrikes per Geneva may constitute war crimes as they were targeting civilians:

War Crimes Report on Yemen Accuses Saudi Arabia and U.A.E.


Here is a thread discussing senators on both sides supporting the war in Yemen, and discussing both parties' involvement.
The US Senate continues to support Saudi war in Yemen

Ten democrats voted to table, and continue US involvement. This is additional evidence that both parties seem to be in favor of war, especially to support our ties to the Saudis (and to prop up the dollar).

It would be nice if the politicians who keep claiming they are the "resistance" would stop expanding the war powers of a president they claim to resist.

Correct. And the way it has played out over the years shows that we place money above morals. We should not be cooperating with oppressive regimes.

All told, I still think we should do it on principal. The hit economically will come some day anyway, and there is no point further hurting future generations by propping up an immoral system.

Asking how many would support a one-issue anti-war party

How many would support a one-issue party--no foreign military involvement

I am curious how much interest there would be in a one issue political party aimed at massively scaling back US military presence overseas. We cannot afford to maintain the current empire, and we have a doubtful moral rationale for such a large military presence. There seems to be little interest from either the Democratic or Republican establishment to scale back our overseas presence, which would provide the rationale for such a one issue party.


A thread whether Trump would exceed Obama's one year bombing record. (hint:He did)

Place your bets...will Trump exceed Obamas 26,000+ bombs in 2017?

And an administration that accounts for 2/3rds of the world's weapons exports, including to nations that they already determined violate human rights, I have trouble accepting they are really so concerned about loss of life from guns.

But don't get me wrong. This is not just Obama. This is Bush, Obama, now Trump.

After Trump upped the commitment to the fight in Afghanistan we are apparently seeing the highest number of bombs since 2010 in that country.

U.S. bombs dropped in Afghanistan at highest since 2010, under new Tru

Trump is dropping almost three times as many bombs on Afghanistan as in 2016

The latter article also notes that Trump may have already exceeded the number of civilian casualties under Obama due to greater lattitude in targeting.

Some claimed Obama's were under-reported as well, but to pass him in a year is a whole new level of problem.


By April Trump had dropped twice as many bombs as the 2016 figure on Yemen.

The Trump administration has ordered twice as many airstrikes on Yemen as during the whole of 2016

Of course, both Obama and Trump continued the practice of assisting the Saudi bombing there as well, refueling, providing intelligence and weapons, etc.


The United States had considered retiring older cluster bombs that had a higher likelyhood of individual explosives not detonating (which can lead to later detonation and greater risk to civilians). However, they have now decided not to do so until they have more munitions to replace them.

America takes turn for the worse on cluster bombs

https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/DOD-POLICY-ON-CLUSTER-MUNITIONS-OSD071415-17.pdf

New record bomb dropping in 2018. And now we are in danger of running out of bomb parts.

The US is running out of bombs — and it may soon struggle to make more

All this is happening as the U.S. is expending munitions at a rapid rate. For instance, the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction concluded that 1,186 munitions were dropped in that country during the first quarter of 2018 ― the highest number recorded for the first three months of the year since tracking began in 2013; that number is also more than two and a half times the amount dropped in the first quarter of 2017.

And while they are over there reclaiming parts, perhaps they could investigate chemical attacks before retaliating against them.

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Anything from 2020? Perhaps something where you directly challenge people for the answer they give on why they continue to support Trump? I still don’t believe you are urging Trump voters to vote third party. Maybe you do in real life or elsewhere in the Internet but I do not believe you are doing it here.

tall73 said:

But he participated in the blowing up of men women and children in Yemen, backing a repressive regime.

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Few describe Saudi Arabia as a "repressive regime".

Still coming into the light, yes. But, actually, infinitely less involved in military action than even we.

Us involvement in military action (whether directly or indirectly) has been part of our national character since our inception.

We have only begun to talk about staying out of the myriad conflicts the US has typically, stuck its fingers into.

And we probably should stop selling so many weapons.

Tell you what. You show me a viable candidate that is willing to lead the US to shed its violence, and I'll consider them.

I would guess that such a candidate would also be able to do away with all of the nonsense about the US being the "greatest nation in the world". I am so tired of that rhetoric.

The globalists are right. We need to work to help the world to work together, ... rather than be at one another's necks.

But again, what do you do when one of your neighbors wants to take over yet another neighbor's property ? Unfortunately this is the way of our world.
I think that we were on the right track with the United Nations, but that has faded from the limelight.

Perhaps a good united fight against COVID will do the trick, if we can find a leader who is willing to pull and work for the benefit of the world and its peoples, ... rather than only for himself.

Trump has poisoned us ... taking us backwards in our journey to global cooperation rather than forwards. We need to stop the backward push, ... so that we can begin to move forward again.

A_Thinker said:

Few describe Saudi Arabia as a "repressive regime".

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I have to take issue with this comment. Granted, a lot depends on how you are going to define "repressive." Yes, SA is not on the level of the USSR or some other dictatorships but they've not been a "bastion of freedom." At the same time, they have a secret police force aimed at preventing criticism of the monarchy/royal family.

Additionally, they have been horrible on "civil rights." The primary criticism is based on their treatment of women -- and having had a sister in law that lived in Saudi Arabia with her husband, she has interesting stories about how, even as a foreigner/non-Muslim, she was highly restricted in what she could do, particularly without her husband at her side. On top of that, there have been numerous civil rights claims about how Saudi Arabia has treated "guest workers" -- workers from poorer countries they have brought in as cheap labor.

Last, they have been involved in many wars, though they tend do let others "take the lead;" such as the war against Iraq, wars against Israel, etc. In this century, you could claim that Saudi Arabia has been in a perpetual state of war.

tall73 said:

I am also urging Trump voters to vote third party.

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Was there a thread asking Donald's supporters what line he'd have to cross not to vote for him?

ETA - yeah, guess I wasn't the only one to notice that.