Christ is the END of the Law

and some catholics state that there is a division between catholic and roman catholic, that is why i state it as such my friend.

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Again, Catholic and Roman Catholic are the same my friend. Anyone who tells you different needs better understanding, or is not a Catholic. One of the two.

Babylon(confusion) has covered the earth
So come out of her my people

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I definitely agree with you. Some people even proclaim others to be in confusion, when in fact, they are amidst that same confusion, unknowingly.

the reason why i say almost, is because few believe WHAT the SCRIPTURES TEACH us to BELIEVE.

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That is so true. All denominatioons have some truth to them, but only the Catholic Church has the fulness of the Truth, my brother. The Catholic Church teaches all to obey the WORD of God (both written and spoken) .

It is funny how God tells us to love one another, yet so many denominations focus so much attention on the Catholic Church, rather than focusing on their own salvation. So many of these denominations act like politicians - the put on a negative add campaign, rather than say what is good about their own beliefs.

If you do not believe the Catholic Church is the TRUE church, then so be it for you. I find it hard to believe that people can believe in the Bible which the Catholic Church assembled, but yet do not accept its Authority. Convenient, eh?

Hi all!

I find the views expressed in this thread very interesting even if I do not (of course!) share them.

The essence of Judaism is about fulfilling God's precepts, as specified in the Torah (i.e. Genesis to Deuteronomy) which He revealed to Moses Our Teacher and which, we believe, to be eternally valid.

A note. I think that translating "Torah" as "the Law" is not only incorrect (I have 9 years' experience as a Hebrew-to-English translator) but also does Judaism a terrible injustice by suggesting that ours is a cold, robot-like, even casuistic, faith of blind, unfeeling obedience to a collection of statutes. Biblical Hebrew has several words that can be translated as "law", "statute", "ordinance" and the like; Torah is not one of them. The word Torah actually comes from a root (h-r-h) that connotes teaching, direction & guidance. The Hebrew words for "teacher" (moreh), "parent" (horeh) and "direction/directive" (hora'ah) are all cognates of the same root. The Torah is much more than a mere statute book or collection of precepts. If that's all it was, we would have scant need for the Book of Genesis, which (by our count) has only 3 of the Torah's 613 precepts in it. (Any guess as to what they are?)

Deuteronomy 10:12-13 says:

"And now, Israel, what does the Lord your require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways, and to love Him, and to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul; to keep for your good the precepts of the Lord, and His statutes, which I command you this day?"

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Be well!

ssv

Yesterday at 07:13 PM sojeru said this in Post #17

however this is NOT TO BE MISTAKEN with jewish law, GDs law is GDs law, jewish law is the fences that the rabbis put up around the law which some have very good motive and intention, but are not to observe as if it was the law of GD, they are only the laws of man. BUT THE LAW of GD/SPIRIT/WORD/MESSIAH is eternal and was from the beginning.

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You lost me, from what I understand:

The Jewish Law = The Laws of Moses = The Law of God?

This is what Jesus taught. In his teachings he spoke against the pseudo actions of those in regard to the law and yes gave them "eternal" or "internal" meaning, in not only don't do this or that, but don't have it in your being to think about it. So, in Jesus he DID NOT come to end the law, he raised the stakes, while Paul in his quest to convert gentiles subverts the law, something Jesus DID NOT teach. So I wouldn't say it's the words or acts of Jesus that ends the law, the verses attributed to him make this crystal clear, it's Paul who in his effort to convert is rejected by the Jews and changes the message to fit the task.


While the gospels try to tie the suffering and death of Jesus to post prophecy scripture, but it's Paul that gives the sacrifice of Jesus this new meaning of subverting sin in trying to make sense of the death of the supposed Messiah. Jesus for example, in his long dialogue with Nicodemous(?) mentions nothing about the ending of the law or the new method to transcend sin, why?

Hi, im glad to be back
Hi still small voice,
im glad that you shared the such on Torah, what you say is correct.
thank you very much on what you have said.

And Hi doctrine,
Jewish law= rabbinical law.
No doubt you will hear us jews say that rabbinical law is the law of moses. Thing is, it is a Growing law(i.e. changing from time to time with different rabbis) However Gd's law, the law of Moses- is the word of Gd, what is recorded in the book along with the oral law that Messiah agrees with.
As long as a law does NOT go against Gd's word, then it can be used to glorify Gd in every way.

Jesus spoke against the fences that the rabbis put up, and if a person were to climb over those fences they would be punished (by the authority of the rabbis)- however Messiah was not in accord with this.
Paul was the same as messiah in speaking against the "jewish" law.
and Paul brought this same thing up to Peter when Paul saw that peter was proselyting gentiles(in a sence) to the"jewish" law.

I sometimes have trouble controlling myself to keep the differences far away from what the word says for the gentile.

shabbat shalom

I don't think Christ is the END of the law, for if this were the case, morals would be excluded as well, and we all know we have our times when we are not in perfect agreement with Christ. Christ is the FULFILLEMENT of the law, as He says elsewhere that the complete point of the law is love.

you are sooooo correct recieved
but people fail to realize that no doubt, as you say, it( love) is the only way to do (fulfill) law.
John 14
If you love me, you will obey my commands

since messiah is the embodiment of the law, what are his commands?
He also says to be as holy as Gd is Holy, what does this mean and when did Gd show His holiness?
on mt sinai
moses brought direction(what we call law) (showed the fear of Gd, showed the character of Gd) Messiah brought grace (showed the full love of GD, His compassion) --- they were still showing the same rod, just each brought a revealing points of this one rod, who is GD.
so moses showed the direction (torah) of the rod(Gd) Messiah showed the love of the Rod (Gd) ....its still the same rod, and this is what makes up the rod TORAH (direction) and LOVE

shalom friend
antonio

and doctrine 1st, Paulos does not "subvert" law for gentiles.
he made it the point that since they are believers by faith they should be allowed into the synagogue so that they can have the chance to listen to moses.
as the noahide laws(letter to gentiles in acts) were the way that gentiles could be allowed to sit with the jews and fellowship with them.
Most of the time Paul was in the synagogue, where they recite "Moses" all of the time , many times during the services, and a few times the shema is pronounced.
so these gentiles as did luke knew of the LAW OF MESSIAH (which is the glorified "version" of the law of moses) and he did it, because he loved messiah- and he probably still lives because the spirit is now with him forever as it is with all true believers.

the words of paulare hard to understand, and so many twist his words making way for what is known as pseudo christianity... AND BECAUSE they twisted paul, the twisted messiah, and the prophetsa and the law, and the apostles. IF THEY BELIEVED MESSIAH why do they fight the word who is messiah, why do they fight they LAW(word=direction) which became flesh to show the love of GD.
This means they even twist the love of GD. and so they twist GD himself.

Doctrine, I am not saying try to understand paul, I am telling you TP UNDERSTAND paul and the word which was given through him. THAT WORD is Messiah and that Word is true.
IF NOT you will be held on the same as these "christians" twisting his word.

shalom

*Mod Hat on* 'This topic has absolutely nothing to do with Apologetics, and did not belong in that forum.

 

Edited to add, since it was requested to be moved to a different forum here it is. Mod's if this topic doesn't fit here feel free to move it again. But its definitely not an Apologetics topic.

I just read a fantastic scripture about this. I think it explains quite clearly the christians position in relation to the law:

Galations 4:21-5:25

This passage is not that long so READ IT. I'll try to sum up what I see it saying.

Just like the slave Haggai's child Ishmael was born a slave, and excluded from Gods promise, the Jews are born slaves under a law of slavery (the Covenent given on Mt Sinai)

God's promise will be inherited instead by the children of the true Mother (Jesus) and are born into freedom.

God's true children will be persecuted by the illigitimate children.

(these are Pauls words not mine)

Paul then tells the Galations NOT to submit themselves to the law as given to Moses, as that would be enslaving themselves after God has freed them.

Christians to live in the spiritual nature that was given to them when they received Gods promise (salvation) and not submit to their sinful nature. The sinful nature is anything which is not loving to ourselves, God and other people.

Christ is the end of the law in the sense that christians need not fulfill it, sinse Christ did, and whoever receives Christ must not try to gain salvation through the law or they will alienate themselves from Christ - Gal 5:3


God did not forget his Law. He fulfilled it and because Jesus fulfilled the Law we don't have to We have instead been told to worship God in "Spirit and Truth" through Loving God, and Loving our Neighbour. God himself will teach us how to do this, and we must submit to his personal teaching rather than the terms of the old Covenant (given to Moses)


Unless I have completely misunderstood this passage, how can it be said that Christians must keep the law of Moses? If Jewish christians were told NOT to be circumcised (Paul was persecuted by the Jews for this) what other Law can you say they must keep?

hi pete 5, you do misunderstand!
go back and read the entire new testament. even to understand galatians 4.
The problem is, you dont understand what EXACTLY was pauls position for NOT "subjecting " GENTILES, (not jewish believers) to circumciosion.
REMEMBER, PAUL HAD TIMOTHY CIRCUMCISED!!!! WHY??? He was Jewish!

so restudy pete, you have a longer way to go than i for the momnt being.

Sorjeru:

Is Ishmael and his decendants members of Gods chosen people?

Galatians 5:3-6
"Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. "


In Romans 7, Paul explains that just as a dead man is no longer bound by the laws of marriage (Jesus also says this in Mathew 22:30) christians share in Christs death, and as such are considered dead to the Law. Just as a dead man is under no obligation to the law (even dead Jews) christians are not required to obey it.

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.



sojeru, are you reading what I write?.... your last reply was very general, and if you would refute me with either specific examples of scripture which oppose what I write, or correct my missinterperetation, it would be more helpful.

I have read all of the new testament, and while I do not consider myself to be a complete authority, I have never read anything which says that a christian (Jewish or not) is under the authority of the Law as given to Moses. Is there such ascripture that you are aware of?

I do not believe that christians break the Law by not observing it. It would seem to me that God has fulfilled the requirements, so that we do not have to.

Hi pete 5
you said using scripture:
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
-----------------------------------------
I am not guilty of this because this is not were i stand. No(other) person will be JUSTIFIED (made right) by "TRYING" to follow torah.
You need to go back and read the posts that i have written here and understand!

What I KNOW DOES NOT go against ANY part of the word.
Salvation is NOT GRANTED by the works of TORAH!!!
However the other way AROUND!!!
" I DO TORAH BECAUSE I AM MADE PECULIAR- I DO IT BETTER THAN THE JEWS!!!! THE TORAH IS IN MY HEART!!! THE SPIRIT IS IN MY HEART!!! TORAH WRITTEN WITH INK OF THE SPIRIT (eternal ink) BY THE DOING OF MESSIAH!!! SO I AM A LIVING TORAH (word-character of GD)
I AM MADE HOLY AS GD IS OLY BY MESSIAHS DOING!!!
THE TORAH LIVES IN ME BECAUSE MESSIAH DID IT AND LIVES IN ME.
EVERY COMMANDMENT IN TORAH, PRECEPT and ORDINANCE COMMANDED by GD IS LIVING IN ME, BECAUSE GD LIVES IN ME- THE WORD OF GD LIVES IN ME."

These are the words of a TRUE BELIEVER.
I hope to be one of them ( a true believer)
And if you say that Torah is not the word of Gd, then you are a liar!
If you say Torah has not become flesh, then you are a liar!
if you say THE TORAH living iside the hearts of men is not the New covenant promise of GD, then you are a liar!

ALL OF IT IS THE WORD OF GD, and THAT IS GDs PROMSE!!!

I am with you with my whole heart!!!!!!!!

What I am talking about is the Regulations which pertain to worship in the Torah.

This is what people mean when they say "The end of the law"

A member of God's chosen people living under the covenant given to Moses was to worship God in the way described.

A member of God's chosen peopl living under the new covenant is to worship God as guided by God in their spirit (God will teach them how to love him and how to love their neighbour), and are not bound by the laws of the old covenant.

this is what I meant by everything I said.

what you say seems good

however, i hope that what you mean is that still, believers do not ACT out the worship of TORAH.
There are those that are "under" the law of Moses because they cant fulfill it.
There are those that LIVE the Torah because it is in them.

The believers can do/act/fulfill the precepts, commandments of Torah better than anyone else AS messiah did, because he lives in them.

Is this what you mean??
(just have to make sure)

In Rom. 10:4 we read as follows: "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."  Before showing what this text means, it may be well to briefly show what it does not mean. It does not mean that Christ has put an end to the law, because (1) Christ Himself said concerning the law, "I am not come to destroy."  Matt. 5:17. (2) The prophet said that instead of destroying it, the Lord would "Magnify the law and make it honorable." Isa. 42:21. (3) The law was in Christ's own heart: "Then said I, Lo, I come; in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God; yea, thy law is within my heart." Ps. 40:7, 8. And (4) since the law is the righteousness of God, the foundation of His government, it could not by any possibility be abolished. See Luke 16:17.

The reader must know that the word "end" does not necessarily mean "termination." It is often used in the sense of design, object, or purpose. In 1 Tim. 1:5 the same writer says, "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned." the word here rendered "charity" is often rendered "love," and is so rendered in this place in the New Version. In 1 John 5:3 we read, "This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments," and Paul himself says that "love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom. 13:10.  In both these texts the same word (agape) is used that occurs in 1 Tim. 1:5. Therefore we say that this text means,  Now the design of the commandment (or law) is that it should be kept. Everybody will recognize this as a self-evident fact.

But this is not the ultimate design of the law. In the verse following the one under consideration, Paul quotes Moses as saying of the law that "the man that doeth those things shall live by them." Christ said to the young man, "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt. 19:17. Now since the design of the law was that it should be kept, or, in other words, that it should produce righteous characters, and the promise is that those who are obedient shall live, we may say that the ultimate design of the law was to give life. And in harmony with this thought are the words of Paul, that the law "was ordained to life." Rom. 7:10. 

But "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God," and "the wages of sin is death." Thus it is impossible for the law to accomplish its design in making perfect characters and consequently giving life. When a man has once broken the law, no subsequent obedience can ever make his character perfect. And therefore the law which was ordained unto life is found to be unto death. Rom. 7:10. 
 
If we were to stop right here with the law unable to accomplish its purpose, we should leave all the world under condemnation and sentence of death. Now we shall see that Christ enables man to secure both righteousness and life. We read that we are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Rom.  3:24. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Rom. 5:1. More than this, He enables us to keep the law. "For he [God] hath made him [Christ] to be sin for us, who knew no sin;  that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2 Cor. 5:21. In Christ, therefore, it is possible for us to be made perfect--the righteousness of God--and that is just what we would have been by constant and unvarying obedience to the law. 

Again we read, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. . . . For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God,  sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh; that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit." Rom. 8:1-4.

What could not the law do? It could not free a single guilty soul from condemnation. Why not? Because it was "weak through the flesh." There is no element of weakness in the law; the weakness is in the flesh. It is not the fault of a good tool that it cannot make a sound pillar out of a rotten stick. The law could not cleanse a man's past record and make him sinless; and poor, fallen man had no strength resting in his flesh to enable him to keep the law. And so God imputes to believers the righteousness of Christ, who was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, so that "the righteousness of the law" might be fulfilled in their lives. And thus Christ is the end of the law.

To conclude, then, we have found that the design of the law was that it should give life because of obedience.  All men have sinned and been sentenced to death. But Christ took upon Himself man's nature and will impart of His own righteousness to those who accept His sacrifice, and finally when they stand, through Him, as doers of the law, He will fulfill to them its ultimate object, by crowning them with eternal life. And so we repeat, what we cannot too fully appreciate, that Christ is made unto us "wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption."

awesome Chrissy!!

thank you for sharing!!
did you read the entire thread, it may give you some more insight on what you already believe- or, at least if you already know and believe what is in the entirety of the thread- you will know that someone believes as you do.

But enjoy

shalom u bracha

 

This is by A.T Jones, written in the 1800s. I will break it into 2 or 3 parts. I found it to be very helpful:

 

PART 1

 Know ye not, brethren (for I speak to them that know the law), how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For a woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed form the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sin, which were by the law, did work in our bodies to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. (Romans 7:1-6).
[font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]The ground covered by this seventh chapter is really gone over twice. The first part lays the broad facts before us; the latter part goes into the details and particulars of what is given in the beginning.[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]In the six verses that have been read, there is given us an illustration and the application. The illustration is easily understood. The simple fact of marriage is taken. A woman having a husband is bound to that husband so long as he liveth. By what is she bound? By the law. It is contrary to the law for her to have two husbands at the same time; but if the first husband be dead, the same law will allow her to marry another man. This is but a plain illustration, and if it is kept in mind throughout the study of the chapter, it will be a great help to us in understanding it.[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]There is no need of any argument in this chapter for the perpetuity of the law. That is not the question under consideration. The apostle is not making a special argument to prove that the law is not abolished. His argument starts from that point as one already settled, and shows the practical working of the law in individual cases. He brings it right home to the hearts of men that they are under the law; and if they are under it, how can it be abolished? He urges its claims upon the hearts of men, and by the Spirit of God they feel its working power upon them, and therefore know that it is not abolished.[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Note the class of people to whom Paul is writing. "I speak to them that know the law." This epistle is addressed to professed followers of Christ. We find that in the second chapter, commencing with the seventeenth verse: "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law and makest thy boast of God."[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Now to the illustration: While the law will not allow the woman to be united to two husbands at the same time, it will allow her to be united to two in succession. It is the law that allows her, and it is the law that unties her. The same law that unites her to the first husband also allows her to be united to the second, after that the first is dead. This is easy to be understood and there is no need to consider it further.[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Now to the application: "Wherefore my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that ye should bring forth fruit unto God." We can determine who the two husbands are by beginning with the second one. The "another" to whom we are to be married, is the one who has been raised from the dead, and that is Christ. We are one of the parties in the second marriage, and Christ is the other. He is the second husband.[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]by A.T. Jones[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica]PART 2

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica]The question now arises, Who was the first husband that died, in order that we might be united to the second? The sixth chapter has answered that. Compare Romans 7:5 with Romans 6. "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death." The law held us in the first union and now to what were we united? What were we in? We were in union with the flesh. In the sixth chapter we found that the body of sin is destroyed by Christ. By what means is it that the body of sin becomes destroyed?

By the man being crucified with Christ.[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]In the first place we are joined to sin--the sinful flesh. We cannot serve two masters. Here are two figures. We are servants to one master--united to one husband. We cannot serve two masters at the same time and we cannot be united to two husbands at the same time. But we can be united to two in succession. The first one of these, to whom we have all been united, is the body of sin; the second is Christ, who is raised from the dead.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]The question arises, what is meant by our being dead to the law by the body of Christ? That brings us to the point where the illustration fails us. The illustration fails us--why? Because it is utterly impossible to find anything in life that will correctly represent in every particular divine things. There is no illustration that will serve in every particular. That is why we have so many types of Christ. No one person could serve as a complete type of Him. We have Adam in one place as a type of Christ; we have Abel; we have Moses; we have Aaron; David; and Melchizedek, and many others who represent different phases of Christ, because there is no one of them who could represent Him in every particular.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]So when the apostle would represent the union of all people with the house of Israel, he says, "I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery." It is a mystery; it is something unnatural. He says that it is a grafting process, but that is contrary to the natural method. Therefore this illustration of marriage cannot be considered as complete in every particular. And yet, after all, the illustration does not fail, if we choose to consider that the union with the first husband is a criminal connection. It is so in the application. Those who are united to the flesh are guilty of a capital crime. The law holds them in that connection; i.e., it will not allow them to lightly dissolve the union and pass it by as though nothing had taken place--but it demands their life. With this explanation we can understand what follows.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]We find that we are united with sin and with the body of sin. Then Christ comes to us and He presents Himself as the one altogether lovely. And in reality He is the only one who has any real claim upon us. "I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love." The apostle is writing to those who know the law and who have left their first love, and what applies to them will also apply in larger measure to those of the world. Christ comes to the door of our hearts and knocks and begs that we will come to Him. He has spread out His hands all the day unto a rebellious people, "which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts." How deep, how unfathomable is the love of God!

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]In Jeremiah 3:1 we read, "They say, If a man put away his wife and she go from him and become another man's shall he return unto her again? Shall not that land be greatly polluted? But thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the Lord." Paul in writing to the Corinthians says, "I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Now we desire that loveliness of character which can be found only in Christ. We find that this union in which we are held--with the flesh--is not a pleasant union but the husband to whom we are wedded is a taskmaster, he is a tyrant who grinds us down so that we have no liberty. The flesh is tyrannical, and it holds us down and makes us do, not as we wish to do, but as it wishes us to do. When we by the aid of Christ come to feel that this union is a galling bondage, then we awake to the real state of our condition and realize that whereas it may have satisfied us for a time, now we hate it and desire to rid ourselves of it and become united to Christ.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]But here is where the difficulty comes in. It is expressed in the words of James 4:4. "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God. Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." Do you think that it is vain that Christ hath said, "What communion hath light with darkness? and what concord hath Christ with Belial?" Now while we still remain in the flesh we desire to take the name of Christ. of course it is impossible for us to really be joined to Christ and still cling to the body of sin, although to outward appearance we may be able to do it. We cannot actually be united to Christ and the world at the same time. We cannot have Christ for our husband and at the same time be living with the world.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]But we can take the name of Christ and at the same time retain the sins of the flesh. But the law will not justify a person who does this--who takes the name of the one man and at the same time lives with another. The law of God does not justify us in taking the name of Christ and in living in union with the body of sin? No, certainly not.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Here again we find how the law is guarded at every step in this matter of justification by faith in Christ. Here every possibility is cut off for a person to say--I am Christ's and Christ is mine and no matter what I do, it is Christ that does it in me. No, that is not so. We cannot charge any sin to Christ: He is not responsible for any sin, for the law does not justify us in committing any sin. So we see that justification by faith is nothing else but bringing a person into perfect conformity to the law. Justification by faith does not make any provision for transgression of the law.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]But we will proceed to consider the case of those who have been unconscious of the claims of the law, while professing it. Paul speaks to those who know the law and who make their boast in the law and profess to exalt the law and at the same time they are so blind to the requirements of the law that they have thought they could profess Christ and live in sin. It is not always those who profess to fear that the honor of the law will be lowered that realize its claims to the fullest extent. Some have even preached the law and have at the same time thought that they could live in the indulgence of the lusts of the flesh, while thinking that they were united with Christ.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Now Christ has been set before us and we see that we cannot be united to Christ and the body of sin at the same time. Then we say that we will give up that first husband--the body of sin and become united with Christ. But how can we get free from this body of sin--this first husband? We cannot cause it to die by simply saying that we wish it were dead. The woman who has a loathing in her heart for her husband, because he is a brutal tyrant, cannot cause herself to be separated from him by simply desiring it. It is a good thing to want to serve Christ, if we have counted the cost and know that we are sick and tired of the old life and want to begin a new life and live with Christ for when we come to that point we can easily find out how it can be done.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Christ comes to us and He proposes a union with us. That is lawful, because He is the only one who really has any claim upon us, and therefore while we are living in this base connection with the body of sin, He can lawfully come to us and beg us to be united with Him. But here we are united with this body of sin, and the law will not justify us in becoming united to Christ till that body of sin is dead.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]For note again what is implied in the figure of the marriage. When two persons are united in marriage, they become one flesh. This is a mystery. Paul says that it is, "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and shall be joined unto his wife and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." This is the thought that is held before us in this figure of marriage. For we twain--ourselves and the flesh--are so completely joined together that we are no longer twain but one flesh, and our life is just one.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Look back over your life and see if there is any time in it where you can see that it has been separated from sin. It has been a life of sin. Sin has ever been a part of your life. We have only one life, and that has been sin. Therefore, so closely have we been united with sin, that there has been only one life between us--we twain have been one flesh. Then the only way by which we can get rid of this body of sin--which is one with us, is to die too. That is how it is that the apostle says--that we are become dead to the law by the body of Christ. For that union with the flesh was really unlawful, and the law had a claim against us for that union. It will put us to death for that union. We are dead in Christ, and the body of sin dies also.[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]  

[font=Arial,Helvetica]by A.T. Jones[/font]

PART 3

[font=Arial,Helvetica]In chapter six we read, "Our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed." Christ in His own flesh bare our sins in His body on the tree. He takes our sins that they may be crucified with Him, that the body of sin may be destroyed. We consent to die. We acknowledge that our life is forfeited to the law and that the law has a just claim upon us. Then we voluntarily give up our lives so that this hated body of sin may die. We loath the union with it so much that we are willing to die in order that it may die too.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]"Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Therefore as we die with Christ, we are raised also with Christ. But Christ is not the minister of sin, so while he will crucify the body of sin, He will not raise it again, and the body of sin is destroyed. Thus we rise, the union between us and Christ complete, that henceforth we should bring forth fruit unto God.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]"Now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held." What is dead? The body of sin! It was because we were united to that body of sin that the law had somewhat against us. Notice: God does not have any hatred against us. God does not have any desire to punish us, but He cannot endure sin. His law must condemn sin, and since we have identified ourselves with sin, so that we were one with it, in condemning sin, he necessarily condemned us, and so long as we lived a life of sin, that condemnation necessarily rested upon us. But as we have already shown, we have a choice as to when we will die, and we have chosen to voluntarily give up our lives to Him, while we can have His life instead.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]When our lives have been given up to the law, the claim that the law had against us is satisfied, because now, the body of sin being dead, we are delivered from the law, just as the woman whose husband is dead, is loosed from the law of her husband, so that she can be united to another. But the same law that held her to that first husband unites her to the second. So it is in this case. The same law that bound us to the body of sin now witnesses to our union with Christ. Romans 3:21. That perfect law witnesses to the union with Christ and justifies it. And so long as we remain in Christ, it justifies us in that union, showing that union with Christ is conformity to the law.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]And the power of Christ is able to hold us in that union. "Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him." Romans 6:8. We became united to Christ in the act of death. By that death, the bond that united us with our first husband--the body of sin--was broken; the body of sin was destroyed, and now we rise with Christ.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]We believe that we shall live with Him? Why do people get married? That they may live together. Then, because we have been united by death with Christ, we believe that now since we are risen with Him, we shall live with Him. Notice further--when two are united, they two are no longer twain but one flesh. Christ "makes in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace." Ephesians 2:15. We are His, Christ and we are one, and therefore together we make one new man. Now who is the one? Christ is the one.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Well might Paul say, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me." Galatians 2:20. It is Christ now, not we. Thus we are the representatives of Christ on earth. This is why Christ in His prayer in the garden prayed that "they may be made perfect in one: and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]How may the world know this? From the Bible? No, for the world does not read the Bible, and therefore God hath put us in the world as the light of the world. The Bible is a light and a lamp, but not to those who do not take it. We take the word of Christ; we feed upon it in spirit and bring Christ into our hearts and thus effect the union, and then the light shines forth to the world, and the world knows that Christ has been sent as a divine Saviour.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]We pass over a few verses. The apostle shows that while the motions of sins were by the law, it is not because the law is sinful but because the law is holy. By the law is the knowledge of sin. Paul was once alive in carnal security, serving God, he thought; but when the commandment came, then sin abounded, and he died; and this law which was ordained for life, because it justifies the obedient, he found had nothing but death for him, because he had not really been obeying it. That is why he says, "The law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]But note: Before this time Paul had been one who honored the law; he had made his boast in the law, and therefore he writes to those who know the law--to those who have been striving with all their might to keep the law, and yet, they are the ones who have to be delivered from the law. Why? Because while making their boast in the law, through breaking it, they dishonored God.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Now we shall still serve, but how? Not the way we did before, in the oldness of the letter, but in the newness of the spirit. That means that our very service to the law is something that we have got to be delivered from. Why? Because it has been simply a forced service; it has been simply the oldness of the letter; there has not been spirit and life in it. It has not been of Christ, therefore it has been sin. We boasted in the law, and we professed to keep the law, yet that very service was sin, and we must be delivered from that kind of service to the law, to serve in the right way. so now we serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]In the latter part of the chapter, the apostle shows what that oldness of the letter is from which we must be delivered. "I am carnal, sold under sin." We do great violence to the apostle Paul, that holy man, when we say that in this he is relating his own Christian experience. He is not writing his own experience now that he is united with Christ. He is writing the experience of those who serve, but in the oldness of the letter, and while professedly serving God, are carnal, and sold under sin.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]A person sold under bondage is a slave. What is the evidence of this slavery? "For what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. . . . For the good that I would, I do not; but the evil which I would not, that I do." Have we ever had any such experience as that in our so-called Christian experience? Yes. We have fought, but with all our fighting, did we keep the law? No. We have made a failure and it is written upon every page of our lives. It is a constant service, but at the same time it is a constant failure.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]I fail; I make a new resolution--I break it, and then I get discouraged, then make another resolution and break that again. We cannot make ourselves do the thing we want to do by making a resolution. We do not want to sin, but we do sin all the time. We make up our minds we will not fall under that temptation again, and we don't--till the next time it comes up, and then we fall as before.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]When in this condition, can we say that we have hope and that we "rejoice in hope of the glory of God"? We do not hear such testimonies--it is solely of what we want to do and what we have failed to do but intend to do in the future. If a person has the law before him and acknowledges that it is good and yet does not keep its precepts, is his sin any less in the sight of God than the sin of the man who cares nothing for the law? No.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]What is the difference between the would-be Christian, who knows the law, but does not keep it and the worldling who does not keep the law and does not acknowledge that it is good? Simply this: We are unwilling slaves and they are willing slaves. We are all the time distracted and sorrowful and getting nothing out of life at all, while the worldling does not worry himself in the least.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]If one is going to sin, is it not better to be the worldling who does not know that there is such a thing as liberty than to be the man who knows that there is liberty but cannot get it? If it has got to be slavery, if we must live in the sins of the world, then it is better to be in the world, partaking of its pleasures, than to be in a miserable bondage and have no hope of a life to come.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]But thanks be unto God, we can have liberty. When life becomes unbearable because of the bondage of sin, then it is that we may hope, for that leads to the question, "O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Mark: There is deliverance. "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord." Christ came that we might have life. In Him is life. He is full of life, and when we are so sick of this body of death that we are willing to die to get rid of it, then we can yield ourselves to Christ and die in Him, and with us dies the body of death. Then we are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, but Christ who is not the minister of sin will not raise up the body of sin; so it is destroyed, and we are free.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Let all your sinful passions go and believe that Christ will give you something so much better than they are that you will have an unspeakable joy. Not only will there be joy now, but there will be joy through all eternity, a song of joy for the precious gift that He has given.

[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Christ has condemned sin in the flesh and by faith we take Him and live with Him. That is a blessed life. Take hold of Christ by faith and live with Him.  [/font]

sojeru,

 

Thank you    I have read just parts of this thread so far but I will surely go back to read all of it now...

Chrissy