BlessedCreator

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Please remember to do your own diligent research on doctrines/prophecies that God has given us. Make sure everything lines up with what God has revealed to you. I may be wrong and do not want anyone to believe something as not %100 true, so please do your further research of your own and let God teach you.
 
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Berean Tim

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Edit: Please remember to do your own diligent research on doctrines/prophecies that God has given us. Make sure everything lines up with what God has revealed to you. I may be wrong and do not want anyone to believe something as not %100 true, so please do your further research of your own and let God teach you.

There is no literal physical third temple that will be built.
The third temple doctrine comes from 2 Thessalonians 2:4.
"Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so
that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

It indeed is speaking of the man of sin, the false messiah, the Antichrist.
But it is not speaking of a literal temple.

Here is commentary from Ellicott on 2 Thessalonians 2:4.
"Though the image is drawn from the Jewish temple, we may say with some confidence that
St. Paul did not expect the Antichrist as a prose fact to take his seat in that edifice.
Neither is the metaphor to be pressed into a mere synonym of "the Church" (1Corinthians 3:17).
The words, so far need not necessarily mean that the Man of Sin will make special
claims upon the Christian community as such. Rather, the whole phrase, "taking his seat in the
temple of God," is a poetical or prophetical description of usurping divine prerogatives
generally: not the prerogatives of the true God alone, but whatever prerogatives have been offered
to anything "called God." Though the prophecy might be fulfilled without any symbolical
act (e.g., of assuming any material throne), yet the spontaneousness ("himself") and the openness
("showing himself") seem so essentially parts of the prophecy as of necessity to imply that the
Man of Sin will make formal claim to occupy that central seat in men's minds and aspirations
which is acknowledged to be due to God alone. The formal making of this claim seems to be identical
with the apocalypse of the Man of Sin, the act by which he is manifested or revealed."

So what does this mean in layman's terms? It means that Antichrist is going to be revealed in
a very grandiose way, as the Lord Jesus Christ will when He comes in the clouds and every eye will see Him.
So shall the Antichrist come, everyone will see him and know of him. All those that are not the true elect
of God will be deceived by the false messiah, the Antichrist into believing that he really is the messiah, that
he really is God. In their minds, which is what the temple of God in this scripture is referring to,
the minds of men and women, in their minds the Antichrist will actually be God to them.

So there is no end time 7 year tribulation period, and there is no literal physical third temple.
What are we looking for? Were looking for the revealing of the false messiah, the Antichrist.
He will deceive many into believing that he is the messiah, that he is God.
God's true elect, those that strictly obey His word, His commandments, His will in this life, that
have made a sacrifice of their lives to devote it to God, to live for God and not themselves, these Christians
will be martyred for their faith. Very few will survive to the end of the world when the Lord returns to
be caught up in the rapture.
2 Thessalonians 2 For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
For that day(coming of the Lord) - literal
Rebellion - literal
Man of lawlessness - literal
Opposes and exalts himself - literal
temple of God - symbolic ????
There's no reason to believe Paul switches to symbolic language
 
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mkgal1

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....but the people that Paul wrote to in the 1st century were expecting literal relief....were they not ?

2 Thessalonians 1:7-....and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Yeshua will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.
 
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Berean Tim

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Paul used symbolic language in his letters to speak of US as a temple, even while a stone temple still stood.
Yes he did.
1 Corinthians 3 16Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
Paul was very clear in what he was saying. In 2 Thessalonians he states the man of son would take his seat in the temple of God, how does one take his seat or stands in a person ? There's no explanation. The man of sin could not sit or stand in a person. The temple in question is not ordained by God, it's a deception the antichrist uses to appear as the messiah
 
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keras

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Yes he did.
1 Corinthians 3 16Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
Paul was very clear in what he was saying. In 2 Thessalonians he states the man of son would take his seat in the temple of God, how does one take his seat or stands in a person ? There's no explanation. The man of sin could not sit or stand in a person. The temple in question is not ordained by God, it's a deception the antichrist uses to appear as the messiah
The truth that we Christians are the Spiritual Temple of God during this Church age, does not preclude another physical Temple being built in Jerusalem.
That there WILL be a new Temple, is proved by 2 Thess 2:4 and Revelation 11:1
 
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Tra Phull

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Is there a SEAT in either of the 2 earlier actual temples?

Not the MERCY SEAT atop the ark, but an actual SEAT that a man could sit in?

Do not people who believe in a 3rd Temple think it will be just like the earlier ones?

This is a figure of speech, "SITTING IN A SEAT IN A STONE TEMPLE" is a real stretch.
 
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Tra Phull

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The opening 2 verses of Revelation 11 do talk about a real temple that John is to measure. By the end of the chapter John is talking about the Temple of God IN HEAVEN.

Did John write Revelation in Domitian' s time, in which case the temple would already be GONE, with no mention of "Oh, but a third one will be rebuilt"?

If an early date for Revelation is given, we still have an impending temple destruction to be coming SOON.

It is likely in any case that no stone temple stood in Jerusalem when the original audience of Revelation was reading it.
 
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Tra Phull

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IMO, nothing in 2 Thess or Rev 11 conclusively proves or disproves that a 3rd stone temple will be built, and we must be open-minded.

Revelation is an extremely figurative book anyhow, and many sincere Christians are divided on whether a 1000 year reign is literal or not.

How many times do the stars fall from heaven?

How many times does the grass burn up?

In any case, picture yourself as a recipient of Revelation, in one of the 7 actual churches to whom it was addressed. The Temple was gone in 70 A.D.
 
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BABerean2

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Christians are not new Israel. Where are you finding the term "new Israel" in the bible?

Why did Peter address the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Israelites came to faith in Christ? The Gentiles were not grafted into the Church until several years later.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.



Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith"?

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.
 
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Tra Phull

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I don't think I can get away with saying "epistle of James doesn't apply to me, cuz I am not one of the 12 tribes that were scattered"

I don't dig the Church being called "the New Israel"

Jew and Gentile believers together are called THE ISRAEL OF GOD - that's in the Bible, the phrase New Israel is not.
 
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mkgal1

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What I've been studying recently is this passage in Genesis:

Genesis 49:10 - The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the staff from between his feet, until Shiloh comes and the allegiance of the nations is his.

This is a chart of the kings of Israel. Since the last human king was Zedekiah before the Babylonian captivity, then it seems to me, in order for that Scripture to remain true.....it can't be referring to any earthly throne. Ever again.

kings_of_israel_and_judah_chart.jpg


Quoting from link

When we read Jeremiah 22 in its entirety and in context, we clearly see that God had sent His prophet to deliver a message to the entire royal house of Judah, who descended from King Josiah, and to all the people living in the Kingdom of Judah. The prophesy concerns all of them and Jeremiah was not speaking directly to or about King Jeconiah only. He was telling all of them what was going to happen as a result of their disobedience to God.

Jeremiah 22:1-2 - "Thus says the Lord: 'Go down to the house of the king of Judah, and there speak this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, O king of Judah, you who sit on the throne of David, you and your servants and your people who enter these gates!'"

The chapter continues by describing the destruction that will come upon the land and all the inhabitants, not just upon the royal family or one specific king.

Then, starting from verse 11, Jeremiah delivers a message to the sons of Josiah and his grandson Jeconiah, who were Kings of Judah at different times, and speaks about each of them specifically, listing their sins along with God's judgment over them and the whole nation.

The final consequence of all their sins is:

Jeremiah 22:30 - "Thus says the Lord: 'Write this man down as childless, a man who shall not prosper in his days; for none of his descendants shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David, and ruling anymore in Judah'."

... meaning that the Kingdom of Judah was going to never have a [human] king again, and was thus ceasing from being an independent, sovereign state. King Jeconiah was going to be the last generation of rulers from the royal house of King Josiah. We know that this is exactly what happened!

Judah had one last king with King Zedekiah, but he was Jeconiah's uncle, not his son, and was carried away captive to Babylon, after witnessing the murder of all his sons. Jeconiah represents the last generation of rulers of Judah descending from the long line of kings going back to King David. Judah lost its independence completely and never regained it, becoming a Babylonian province first, then Persian, then Greek (under Alexander the Great) and finally Roman.What is Jeconiah's curse - Does Jeconiah disqualify Jesus as Messiah?

**Bracket is mine
 
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mkgal1

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From what I'm reading....Leviticus 17:89 prohibitted sacrifices outside of the tent of meetings. The attending priests resided in Shiloh and, at some point, that sanctuary was destroyed (possibly when the Palestines captured the Ark).
 
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mkgal1

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If a 3rd Temple is built in Israel next month, some will say "it is of God".

But how will we know it is not of man?
Because there is only one High Priest/King......and He said this:

Acts 7:48-49 ~
“However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:


‘Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. What kind of house will you build for Me, says the Lord, or where will My place of repose be?
 
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DavidPT

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You better fill the Jews in then since they have materials and plans to build it.


If they did manage to build it, how do you suppose they are going to fulfill any prophecies recorded in the NT when they reject the NT as holy writ?

I for one believe the 70th week in Daniel 9 is future still. What I don't believe is that any of those events are meaning in a literal sense where it might involve literal brick and mortar temples, etc. To me it seems silly that a literal temple gets built, animal sacrificing starts up again, then 3.5 years later an abomination takes place in the temple, thus doing away with animal sacrificing all over again. If God still desired animal sacrificing, why did He allow the 2nd temple to be destroyed, then? So that another one can get built in the end of this age in order to fulfill some of these prophecies many are taking in a literal sense? Sounds far-fetched to me, but that's me, I can't speak for others.
 
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Tra Phull

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Ever since woman at the well, we are pointed away from stone temples and certain mountains as a focus - to the truth that God is Spirit - why would God turn back to temples made by man (that He doesn't live in) and blood of bulls and goats, after we already have the finished sacrifice of Christ?

When will the STONE TEMPLE PILOTS with their Red Heifer hunts ever cease?

If people do ever profanely build a 3rd Temple, what do they do - blow up the Dome of the Rock?
Claim it is not really the true temple site and build on slightly different location?

70 weeks is over - it ran CONCURRENTLY like every other prophesied period of time like Jews in Egypt or Jeremiah' s 70 years.

No justification for this deal of "Oh, the prophetic clock stopped, and we have a future week or half week of Daniel's 70 weeks yet to come!"

I don't buy it. There are dual and multiple fulfillments of prophecy, there is a 42 month period spoken of in Revelation - that doesn't mean it is part of Daniel's 70 shauvim, which I feel ended with stoning of Stephen. Stephen saw Jesus at God's right hand - fulfilling His prophecy of "there be some standing here who will not die til they see Me come with power"

I will take a barbecued red heifer sandwich on shewbread with mayonnaise, it's just food.
 
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