Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,

pasifika said:

Yes, God’s law only condemned those who broke it...the verse in Colossians 2:14 did not mentioned that the handwriting of ordinance was against Him (Jesus) BUT against Us (sinners)...

Colossians 2:14(NIV)..having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemn us, He has taken it away, nailing it to the cross...

So Colossians 2:14, was referring to the law that against and condemn us (“the sinners”)

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Jesus said HE came for the "Lost sheep". Why were they lost? Because God's Laws were "against them?" or were they led astray by the shepherds who departed from God's Law and taught for doctrines the Commandments of men? Please answer this question.

I understand you are convinced that God's Law is against us. Eve was also convinced of this very same thing. The Holy Scriptures teach that God's Law is for the Sinner, not against the sinner as you would have me believe. Jesus nailed handwritten ordinances to the cross no doubt. And these ordinances that He took out of the way were most certainly against us and also condemned Jesus to death, but He triumphed over them, making a show of them openly. So whatever the "ordinances" were that was aginst Paul, was also against Jesus as it is written He Triumphed over them. These "contrary to us" ordinances were not God's Laws, because the scriptures are clear, God's Laws are for us, they are for the Sinner, they are "Good, Just, Holy, and Spiritual. They were created by a Perfect God, who is superior to both you and I in every way. By following these Laws God made for man, Jesus became the perfect human. He was "Made Perfect" by submitting Himself to the Perfect God. We are instructed to do the same.

When a man considers all of Paul's word's and ALL of Jesus Words, the religious doctrine that God's Law is against us falls apart. This is why Jesus said to "live by" Every Word of God. Not just a sentence or two from a modern translation.

No my friend, God's Law does not make us blind, they are not a Yoke of Bondage, they are not against us, they do not have a dark side, nor are they contrary to us.

The philosophies of religious men, other religious voices, from the very beginning have led God's People astray, not God's Law.

Paul is saying "Listen to God" submit to Him like Jesus did.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [URL='https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Colossians-2-17/']Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.[/URL]

The doctrines, religious traditions of men are shadows of nothing. They are Vain Deceit, Rudiments of the world. The Body (true church) is of Christ, not man made doctrines and traditions. Yes, religious men will judge those who walk in God's Commandments just as they Judged Jesus for walking in God's Commandments. But don't let them "beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels", because unless they submit to the same God, they will never understand and will remain "vainly puffed up by their fleshly mind".

Thank you for the discussion. I have asked some valid questions. I hope you might consider them. If not, I am hoping others reading along may consider the point.

BABerean2 said:

The following passages provide a contrast between the Sinai Covenant given at Mount Sinai, and the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.


Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, (Mount Sinai)
Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."
Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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Given all the many, many warnings of religious men leading folks astray, I have decided to rely on EVERY Word of God as Jesus instructs. So as to the "New Covenant" I find it prudent to go straight to the Creator of the New Covenant to find out what it is, and NOT rely on the philosophies of religious men that led God's people astray for centuries.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

So here it is. This is the Creator of the New Covenant telling us exactly what HIS New Covenant is. Here it comes!!!!

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

OK, so here is God telling me He will write HIS Law in my mind and heart.

So this begs the question "How was God's Law received in the Old Covenant?"

Well, as it turns out, God made a Covenant with the Tribe of Levi on Israel's behalf. He separated him for the rest of Israel, and charged them with administering God's Law.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

So "after those days" we will have access to God's Law without being required to go to the Levite Priest and Jesus will write this Law on the hearts of HIS People.

What else???

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So this begs the question, "how were sins forgiven in the Old Covenant?"

As it turns out, God separated the tribe of Levi from Israel, and gave them the exclusive duty of providing "atonement" for Israel.

Lev. 4:17 And the priest (Aaron or his sons, Levites) shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, even before the vail.

18 And he shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar which is before the LORD, that is in the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall pour out all the blood at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

19 And he shall take all his fat from him, and burn it upon the altar.

20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

But "after those days" God Himself will provide for the atonement, no more Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for justification/atonement/forgiveness of sins.

"to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel."

We have a better way to receive God's Law, and a better way for our sins to be atoned for. And more than that. We have what Abel didn't have.

Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, (Adam didn't have) let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; (Abel didn't have this) who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

And again;

1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, (Abel didn't have these) to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

A New Priesthood, a new and better way, with examples for our admonition and God's Word found in every store, on the internet, in every motel. And the Life of Jesus so we can "walk, even as He walked".

We don't have to rely on religious men to hear God's Instruction, we can go straight to His Word.

Hallelujah

BABerean2 said:

Those in the New Covenant have the master teacher within us.

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That is the universal teaching of the religions of the land. Even the Pharisees believed they were Children of God. I just think, given all the many, many examples written for our admonition, that we should be careful.

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

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John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

It is important, in my view, to "live by" Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God as Jesus instructs. He should know.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

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And wouldn't you know, God's Word is available to anyone who wants it. Amazing.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

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Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

It's very important to listen to ALL of His Teaching.

As Paul teaches us.

2 Tim. 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I don't believe there is any other way.

BABerean2 said:

The commandments above are explained below.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

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Again, you are missing/altering John's Truth because you are not considering all of his Word's here.

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, (God) because we keep his commandments, (God's Commandments) and do those things that are pleasing in his ( God's) sight.

23 And this is his (God's) commandment, That we should believe on the name of his (God's) Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he ( God) gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his (God's) commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he ( God) in us, by the Spirit which he (God) hath given us.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

And where do we find the Commandment?

2 Tim. 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

And what do the Holy Scriptures teach?

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

"That we should believe on the name of his (God's) Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he (God) gave us commandment"

From the beginning to the end it is the same.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Shall I not Trust His Words?

Are there two separate sets of commandments in the verse below?

oh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

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Of course there is.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Was I the Christ? Was my Spirit in the Holy Prophets? Did Israel drink from me? Was I creating "ALL Things" before I became a man? Did I create Law? Did Abraham see my day? Was I before Abraham?

Of course God gave the Christ a different work than the Christ gave Me.

We have already established that the Command to Love one another, that Jesus said was His Commandment to us, was spelled out in Leviticus. Examples given in Genesis.

1 Pet. 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Was Moses a Prophet? And what Spirit, according to the Scriptures, Inspired Him to write the Holy Scriptures which are able to make me wise unto Salvation?? Was it not the Christ?

Can you find a Law Jesus commanded that was not first written in the Law and Prophets?

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

What percentage of your salvation comes from Christ, and what percentage comes from you?

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Definitely 100% from the Christ. That's why it is so important, in my view, to not only hear His Sayings, but trust in Him enough to be a "doer" of His Sayings. To choose to "Serve Him" as opposed to serving the religious doctrines and traditions of the land we are born into. Even though doing so will bring ridicule and mocking from the religious men of the earth.

BABerean2 said:

In the passage below Christ contrasts the Old Covenant to the New Covenant with the words, "But I say...".


Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

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Yes, the Shepherds that led God's People astray "Omitted" the weightier Matters of the Law.

Not only did the Word of God which became Flesh command "Thou shall not Kill" but He also Commanded;

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

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Yes, not only did the Word of God which became Flesh command "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY" But He also taught;

Prov. 6:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. 25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

He said don't even look at the nakedness of your brothers wife.

Lev. 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

The "them of Old time" taught some of God's Law, but "omitted" the weightier matters of the Law just as Jesus said.

Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

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Prov. 6:27 Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?

28 Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned?

29 So he that goeth in to his neighbour's wife; whosoever toucheth her shall not be innocent.

Matt. 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
Mat 5:35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

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Duet. 23:21 When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee. 22 But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee.

Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

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Proverbs 20:22 Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the Lord, and he shall save thee.

Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

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Proverbs 25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink.

Every thing Jesus said in Matt. 5 was taught in the Law and Prophets. It's just that the Shepherds, the "them of old time", did not teach the Law and Prophets, they became "Partial in the Law". At least according to the God of the Bible. One of the many places where the Christ explains this in Mal. 2:4-10.


You have been convinced that the "Them of Old Time" Jesus is referring to is God and His Prophets. This is an error, a false teaching we are born into. Again, if you would consider ALL His Words, you would understand what He is saying.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, (Scribes and Pharisees) Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Jesus is referring to the Shepherds who led His people astray, when HE says "Them of Old Time". It was the Christ who said not only "thou shall not kill", but He Also said not to hate or be angry with your brother without a cause.

The Pharisees taught some of God's Laws, but "OMITTED" the Weightier matters of the Law. At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The teaching that God's Laws are incomplete, a Yoke of Bondage, are against us, and Jesus came to save us from HIS Law by creating new ones is an insidious falsehood that has been promoted by religious men who come in Christ's Name for Centuries.

The "Them of Old Time" is Not God, or HIS Prophets. It was the creator of all things that gave His Law, before HE became Flesh and Blood. The "Them of Old Time" was the religious men who had corrupted God's Law by omitting the most important parts.

Mal. 2:9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

BABerean2 said:

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

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Yes, and again, when a person considers more than just a sentence here and there, and considers every Word of God, they can see exactly what the "change of the Law" was.

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

For Jesus to become our High Priest, the Priesthood Law, given by Covenant to Levi on Israel's behalf, must change.

According to the Levitical Priesthood, only a Levite, Aaron and his sons, could partake of the Priesthood. No other Tribe was allowed to provide for the administration of God's Laws, or provide for the atonement of sins. So by necessity the Priesthood Law had to change in order for a member of the Tribe of Judah to become the High Priest.

This is the fulfillment of the New Covenant promised by the Christ in Jer. 31, in which HE said HE Himself would write His Laws on the hearts of His People, and HE Himself would provide for the atonement of their sins.

There are philosophies of religious men who use this phrase, "there is made of necessity a change also of the law" to promote a religious view that Jesus came to destroy or alter all God's Laws. But Jesus said not to even THINK that.

Paul warned of these religious philosophers in the Chapter this OP referenced.

BABerean2 said:

The author of the Book of Hebrews said we are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

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Yes, God has Prophesied about Mt. Zion many, many times.

Psalms 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ps. 78:67 Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim: 68 But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.

Is. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

You should really consider letting the Scriptures reveal God's Doctrines to you, as opposed to using a verse here and another verse there to promote this religious view or that.

Is. 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Heb. 12 is a great chapter.

Heb. 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, (The Faithful from Abel to Malachi to the present) which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, (Moses) much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: (Jesus)

Jesus says the same thing in another place.

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Hopefully you can see how important it is to listen to Jesus and those teachers HE gave us, both as the Word of God, and the Word of God which became Flesh. As opposed to listening to all the other religious voices out there..

Heb. 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, (undeserved pardon) whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

BABerean2 said:

Which Mount Zion are you talking about?

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That is the question isn't it. Am I talking about the Mt. Zion spoken about in the Holy Scriptures? Or the Mt. Zion promoted by the religions of the land I was born into? For the record, I posted the Mt. Zion spoken of by the Spirit of Christ which was in the Prophets. You have not defined what Mt. Zion you are talking about.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

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In your religion, what was the burden that burdened Jerusalem and her children and brought them into bondage? Was it the burden of deceit and the teaching for doctrines the Commandments of Men which caused them to Sin against their own God? Or are you teaching it was God's Own Commandments that burdened and led Jerusalem astray?

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

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And what "country" did they desire to leave? Was it a country that God's Word ruled? Or was it a country ruled by men who rejected God's Word?

And in the heavenly country they desired, will the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob be there? In your religion, will God still have rules in the City HE is preparing for us?