Hades Is A Real Place of Torment and Agony

BNR32FAN

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Did you miss verse 22 of the context which is speaking of what will happen on a certain "day", not eternal destinies? Nothing there states they cannot be saved at some point in the future beyond that "day".

No the statement Jesus said “Not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven is not limited to that day. It’s a completely different statement of its own. Look at the way it is written.

“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

So the statement that not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter heaven is not connected to the statement pertaining to that day. Jesus is not saying they will not enter heaven on that day. He said not all of them will enter heaven period. Then He says “Many will say to Me on that day...” This statement does not in any way limit his statement in verse 21 to only pertaining to that day.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Spirit blasphemy in harmony with universal salvation:

Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin
Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?
http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...ves-holy-spirit-blasphemers.html#post53259200
Question about eternal damnation
God loves those who are blaspheming the Holy Spirit - Theology Online
the penalty for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...
Universalism in harmony with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
the penalty for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...
The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism
The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism







Where did that say anyone will NEVER be saved, but sadisticlly tortured throughout endless eons?

It's incredibly - lame - for a Jesus you think will monstrously fry people for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever...

If that were His belief, why is it entirely absent from Scripture? Why is Scripture instead - full - of lame warnings like the above, ALL of which are perfectly harmonious with the many passages that support universalism. By quoting Lk.19:26-27 you only shoot your own dogma in the foot...yet again.


Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

The "His people" referred to are Israel (2:6) of the context. IOW people like Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition, & the Pharisees who were blaspheming Christ & or the Holy Spirit, etc.

Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." Why affirm belief in Hell?







Did you miss verse 22 of the context which is speaking of what will happen on a certain "day", not eternal destinies? Nothing there states they cannot be saved at some point in the future beyond that "day".

By the same kind of logic you would have us believe that no one will be saved because all have been unrighteous & 1 Cor.6:9 says:

"Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God?"

Remember this:






It's right in front of your eyes, if you read the next verse after those you quoted:

1 Cor 6:9-11

"Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

"And SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

As a commentator says:

"Wait a minute. If the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, why does Paul say "and such were some of you?" If they were unrighteous, then how did they inherit the kingdom?"

"They had to be cleansed first, of course. As long as anyone is not cleansed, they have no part inside. But once cleansed, they they entered the kingdom."

So the passages you quoted are perfectly harmonious with universal salvation.


Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death.

Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Please forgive me friend but I really don’t care to read commentaries. I mean I can find commentaries that say that Jesus did sin and is not the Son of God so just because someone wrote a commentary doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. If you would like to explain your position on Luke 12:10 I’ll be happy to discuss it with you in a polite manner. Have a blessed evening. :)
 
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BNR32FAN

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Wait a minute. If the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, why does Paul say "and such were some of you?" If they were unrighteous, then how did they inherit the kingdom?"

Because Paul was referring to those who die in a state of unrighteousness or those who are in such an ungodly state when when Jesus returns. This is why Paul is urging the Corinthians to live according to God’s word, so that they will not end up in that fate.
 
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You do realize I hope that salvation is an individual event. That is why Jesus is referred to as our PERSONAL Saviour.

Rev 21:8 says just as you posted it correctly......
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

The gospel is called the mighty power of God, and salvation to all them that believe, those who do not accept are seen in Rev. 21:8 as you posted.

And I hope you're prepared to consider the possibility that the entire revelation of Revelation is the revelation that God converts everyone. The promise, the method, the fulfillment. It's the narrative, scripture's saturated in miraculous deliverance and restoration. So have faith, don't fall into unbelief yourself Major.

This the super-baptism, the making of all things new (Rev 21:5), the consummation of the ages in the Eschaton where heaven merges with earth in a great apokatastasis, anakainosis and paliggenesis. Three big wog words for Kingdom Salvation.

Jesus = Yahushua = God's Salvation = the Omega Plan = Good News = Total victory of Christ = Praise God for He is THAT good.
 
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ClementofA

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No the statement Jesus said “Not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven is not limited to that day. It’s a completely different statement of its own. Look at the way it is written.

“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

So the statement that not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter heaven is not connected to the statement pertaining to that day. Jesus is not saying they will not enter heaven on that day. He said not all of them will enter heaven period. Then He says “Many will say to Me on that day...” This statement does not in any way limit his statement in verse 21 to only pertaining to that day.

V.22 clearly refers to "that day". Jesus is informing us what will happen on that day when He will tell some to "depart". How long they will depart is not stated, so the passage tells us nothing about the eternal destiny of those who "depart". Therefore it fails as a "proof text" vs universalism.

Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

The "His people" referred to are Israel (2:6) of the context. IOW people like Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition, & the Pharisees who were blaspheming Christ & or the Holy Spirit, etc.

Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." Why affirm belief in Hell?

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ClementofA

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Please forgive me friend but I really don’t care to read commentaries. I mean I can find commentaries that say that Jesus did sin and is not the Son of God so just because someone wrote a commentary doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. If you would like to explain your position on Luke 12:10 I’ll be happy to discuss it with you in a polite manner. Have a blessed evening. :)

Those were posts not commentaries. For example:

the penalty for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...? Could it be...death...physical death? Not endless oblivion or torments?

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Spirit...why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost... Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost (Acts 5:3-6, 9-10)

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (1 John 5:16)

27 Also if one person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one year old female goat for a sin offering. 28 The priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven. 29 You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them. 30 But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from among his people. 31‘Because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt will be on him.’” (Numbers 15:27-31)

Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:16)

28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:28-29)

But the LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, "Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven/purged/atoned you Until you die," says the Lord GOD of hosts. (Isaiah 22:14)

20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. (Isaiah 65:20)

...continued next post...

the penalty for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...
 
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ClementofA

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Because Paul was referring to those who die in a state of unrighteousness or those who are in such an ungodly state when when Jesus returns. This is why Paul is urging the Corinthians to live according to God’s word, so that they will not end up in that fate.

Nothing in 1 Cor.6:9-11 says those who "die in a state of unrighteousness" can never be saved. Those verses don't even mention death.

1 Cor.3:15 If any man’s work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but as through fire.

Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death.

Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

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Again.....you only understand what YOU want to and with out context it means nothing.

Those 4 fingers keep pointing right back atcha Major. You know, it's the right of every English man to stand up in a court of law and say 'J'accuse!'.


It is clear, at least to most Bible scolars, that this bride is the New Jerusalem the city sceen in Revelation 21:2.......

"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."

The plain black and white English we see that the New City of God is the Church and note that IT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.

That means the church was IN HEAVEN --RAPTURED-- and is now become the habitation of the church so that could NOT BE SEEN IN THE REVELATION STORY just as I stated.

Plausible, I guess, but not earth-shattering imho. That's always been the Christian hope, the marriage of heaven and earth, the Kingdom of (from) Heaven realised on earth.

And that's why the Bride and the Spirit invite the outsiders to come in, through the ever-open pearly gates, for the water of life, for the healing of the nations in the great renovation of all things.

This 'upbeat' reading of the final visions of Revelation is inescapable, and I commend it to you sir.
 
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the squalidly brutal and witless Christian emperor Justinian

I'd just like to note that we universalists can never let Justinian's name go by without attaching colorful if uncharitable epithets. Thank you Lord for the gift of righteous humour.
 
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BNR32FAN

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V.22 clearly refers to "that day". Jesus is informing us what will happen on that day when He will tell some to "depart". How long they will depart is not stated, so the passage tells us nothing about the eternal destiny of those who "depart". Therefore it fails as a "proof text" vs universalism.

How long is stated when He said they will not enter heaven. If at any time everyone who says to Him Lord Lord enters heaven then Matthew 7:21 becomes a false statement. He didn’t say not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter heaven on that day. He said not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter heaven.
 
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BNR32FAN

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the penalty for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...? Could it be...death...physical death? Not endless oblivion or torments?

Jesus said it won’t be forgiven, He didn’t say anything about the penalty. We do know that no one can enter heaven with unforgiven sin.
 
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BNR32FAN

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1 Cor.3:15 If any man’s work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but as through fire.

Any man who is building on the foundation of Christ you mean, right? This does not mean any man at all, believer or not.
 
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Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death.

I don’t see a reference to stoning in these verses.
 
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Der Alte

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CLementofA said:
1 Cor.3:15 If any man’s work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but as through fire.
Any man who is building on the foundation of Christ you mean, right? This does not mean any man at all, believer or not.
This has been pointed out to UR-ites many times but they refuse to look beyond 1 Cor 3:15.
 
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This ghastly dogma has five (5) very important foundations.

1. It teaches evil that has no end.

2. It points to a victorious devil.

3. It points to a God who fails as the Author & Finisher, with evil finally triumphant over God.

4. It teaches unending chaos forever and ever.

5. It is NOT afraid to call this ghastly scene the triumph of the Lord Jesus Christ

"All in all" > > > becomes all in some
 
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FineLinen said:
This ghastly dogma has five (5) very important foundations.
1. It teaches evil that has no end.
2. It points to a victorious devil.
3. It points to a God who fails as the Author & Finisher, with evil finally triumphant over God.
4. It teaches unending chaos forever and ever.
5. It is NOT afraid to call this ghastly scene the triumph of the Lord Jesus Christ
"All in all" > > > becomes all in some
This ghastly UR dogma ignores the very words of Jesus.
Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aionios” and “kolasis?”
…..Note, in the EOB, footnote pg. 180

Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).
= = = = = = = = = =
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.

= = = = = = = = = =
KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aioniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In the EOB Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, uses αιωνιου/aioniou],” in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, below.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone has doubts about the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.



 
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ClementofA

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How long is stated when He said they will not enter heaven. If at any time everyone who says to Him Lord Lord enters heaven then Matthew 7:21 becomes a false statement. He didn’t say not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter heaven on that day. He said not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter heaven.

Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

The "His people" referred to are Israel (2:6) of the context. IOW people like Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition, & the Pharisees who were blaspheming Christ & or the Holy Spirit, etc.

Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." Why affirm belief in Hell?





Then of course we have.

Matthew 7:21-22
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

You would have us believe that verse 21 does not say
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;"
But instead means,
"everyone shall enter the kingdom of heaven righteous and unrighteous alike."

Did you miss verse 22 of the context which is speaking of what will happen on a certain "day", not eternal destinies? Nothing there states they cannot be saved at some point in the future beyond that "day".

By the same kind of logic you would have us believe that no one will be saved because all have been unrighteous & 1 Cor.6:9 says:

"Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God?"

Remember this:

.
● 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neitherfornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
(10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
● Galatians 5:19-21
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
● Ephesians 5:3-5
(3) But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
(4) Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
(5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
In three different epistles [books] Paul lists many people who do not have any inheritance in the kingdom of heaven. Please show a verse, two or more would be better, where Paul says “Oops I made a mistake, all these people will be reconciled even if they were sinful and unrighteous when they died."

Where does Paul ever qualify his warnings about who cannot enter the kingdom of God by saying "not until they repent & cease being unrighteous?" I can't seem to find that
qualification anywhere in Paul's writings. Do you suppose that Paul forgot to put that in and that is why unis today have to interject that into every one of Paul's warnings?


It's right in front of your eyes, if you read the next verse after those you quoted:

1 Cor 6:9-11

"Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

"And SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

As a commentator says:

"Wait a minute. If the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, why does Paul say "and such were some of you?" If they were unrighteous, then how did they inherit the kingdom?"

"They had to be cleansed first, of course. As long as anyone is not cleansed, they have no part inside. But once cleansed, they they entered the kingdom."

So the passages you quoted are perfectly harmonious with universal salvation.


Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death.

Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism
 
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ClementofA

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Jesus said it won’t be forgiven, He didn’t say anything about the penalty. We do know that no one can enter heaven with unforgiven sin.

The meaning there is not "forgiven", but "pardoned" or "let go" or "released". The following source gives these definitions:

": (a) I send away, (b) I let go, release, permit to depart, (c) I remit, forgive, (d) I permit, suffer."
Strong's Greek: 863. ἀφίημι (aphiémi) -- to send away, leave alone, permit

So the implication in Luke 12:10 is not being "pardoned" or "let go" or "released" from some penalty.

What penalty? My previous post argued that the penalty is death.

“Wherever we read that sin shall not be pardoned, or forgiven, the sense is simply that whatever the just penalty may be for such a misdeed, it will not be remitted, or let go. It does not follow, however, from the phrase, concerning him “that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost,” that “it shall not be forgiven” him (Luke 12:10, AV), that that from which he shall not be “forgiven” (i.e., released) is a penalty consisting of abiding estrangement from God in the presence of eternal burnings.”

"Where we read in this verse, as in the Concordant Version, that “the one who blasphemes the holy spirit shall not be pardoned the implicit idea, conveyed through the figure of ellipsis, is that such a one shall not be pardoned from the penalty which justly accrues to this sin. From a literary standpoint, it is simply incorrect to interpret such texts as if their sense were, “shall not be pardoned,” from a penalty consisting of or incorporating a specific woe, namely, that of eternal separation from God.”

“Such verses say nothing as to the nature of the penalty for such disobedience; to claim that they do manifests a deficiency of reading comprehension. Or, in the case of any who are aware that these texts, indeed, do not reveal the nature of the penalty which accrues to this sin and yet argue as if these texts did contain such information, the error then becomes that of circular reasoning,
assuming what is at issue as if it had been proved. Such an error is exacerbated by making such arguments on the basis of our texts under consideration (i.e., Matt. 12:31,32; Mark 3:28-30; Luke 12:8-10), ones which are incapable of answering such a question.”

“The Blasphemy of the Spirit and Overwhelming Grace, and “Unpardonable” Sin” booklet, p.11-12)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/unsearchablerich/booksonwebsite/©CPC+The+Blasphemy+of+the+Spirit.pdf

**************************************************

Spirit blasphemy in harmony with universal salvation:
Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin
Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?
http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...ves-holy-spirit-blasphemers.html#post53259200
Question about eternal damnation
God loves those who are blaspheming the Holy Spirit - Theology Online
the penalty for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...
Universalism in harmony with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
the penalty for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is...
The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism
The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism
 
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ClementofA

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Any man who is building on the foundation of Christ you mean, right? This does not mean any man at all, believer or not.

Verse 11 refers to all mankind, including the lost sinner:

1 Cor.3:11 For other foundation can no one lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Verse 11 says that "no one" can lay any foundation other than the one that has been laid which is Jesus Christ. The words "no one" are not limited to the saints in Corinth, but refer to all mankind. This is the last reference identifying any group of people in the next several verses leading up to v.15. Thus prior context and the more immediate following context of v.15, namely v.17, both refer to lost sinners. That is the context in which verse 15 is to be interpreted as to who it should refer to:

1 Cor.3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

It is the sins of "wood, hay & stubble" that are to be burned away:

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

Whereas silver represents the redemption of Christ & those of silver are those who have faith in it, wood, hay & stubble have no silver in them, hence such have no faith.
 
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