LDS MORMONS: Heavenly Mom Gets Less Respect

mmksparbud · May 28, 2020

He is the way said:
It was a jump, but since you like the RTM so much because it is a mechanical translation of the Hebrew into English, it is totally against creating out of nothing. Are you sure you want to continue with the RTM? God did create male and female the same way a father does. But the female is not in His image. She is in the image of her mother.

I know the believe very well. They did not have that concept until later.
And yes it is a believe of the ancient Jew that it was not from nothing. It is not the belief of later Jews, nor was it the belief of Jews at the time of Christ nor of Christ nor His disciples. And it shows in the book of Psalms and many other verses that have all been shown you. They also hed to polygomay, which they later rejected. Problem is, JS never advanced as the Jews did!
As with the idea of the female being in the image of a female god---no, they never, ever believed that and God punished them for every time they turned and worshipped pagan goddesses. There was never a heavenly mother. God made everything male and female----angels are neither. Even JS and BY see that. Everything else is male and female for the act of procreation. God does not procreate---He has no need to, as He is absolutely perfect in every way as the perfection of all that is male and all that is female, He created everything else less then Himself except for His Son who is a part of Himself and never was created, nor was the Holy Spirit. An earthly father also has female hormones, and the female has male hormones. And those can get totally out of whack, causi9ng many problems. Our brains even think differently and the hormones cause problems with thinking also. So NO! There never was a heavenly mother! God is totally perfect---JS and BY never could understand that simple concept and therefore could never pass it on to their followers. Our heavenly Mother and Father are One
and the same and we were created in their image---the |Father, Son and Holy Spirit. At best, you can only say that females are more of the Holy Spirit for He is presented as the most "female" in character and action---but never called female. In everything the Holy Spirit has been called male, or at the very most---neutral, consisting of both or neither. A heavenly mother is an offense to God and is the worship of a false God.

!

Rescued One · May 28, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Understanding the role of the priesthood might be helpful in understanding the role of the Mormon heavenly mother.

The Order of Heaven
...content disappeared
Woman and the Priesthood, p.46-47

...to be continued because my injured arm is in pain

The Order of Heaven

"It is an irrevocable law that everything must be bound by and subject to a law higher than itself. The gods in eternity are subject to other gods above them. There is no such thing as a headless god. The treason of Lucifer was motivated by his desire to be independent of all authority — a law unto himself. Therefore, he fell from law into lawlessness, into chaos. All who defy their bounds and limitations, becoming answerable to no one, partake of his spirit and are potential candidates for his fate."
Woman and the Priesthood, p.46-47

In Mormonism:
A woman is absolutely always subject to a man. "Heavenly Mother" vowed to be obedient to her hushand in a temple on an earth. He is obedient to a god over him.

Rescued One · May 28, 2020

dzheremi said:
...
Sadly, I know from past experience that how the language actually works has no effect on what LDS will claim about what verses mean, but hey...this is still how it actually is.

He is the way · May 28, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
The Order of Heaven

"It is an irrevocable law that everything must be bound by and subject to a law higher than itself. The gods in eternity are subject to other gods above them. There is no such thing as a headless god. The treason of Lucifer was motivated by his desire to be independent of all authority — a law unto himself. Therefore, he fell from law into lawlessness, into chaos. All who defy their bounds and limitations, becoming answerable to no one, partake of his spirit and are potential candidates for his fate."
Woman and the Priesthood, p.46-47

In Mormonism:
A woman is absolutely always subject to a man. "Heavenly Mother" vowed to be obedient to her hushand in a temple on an earth. He is obedient to a god over him.

(New Testament | Ephesians 5:22 - 25)

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

(New Testament | Titus 2:2 - 5)

2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Rescued One · May 28, 2020

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Ephesians 5:22 - 25)

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

(New Testament | Titus 2:2 - 5)

2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

LOL! That says nothing about Mormon heavenly mothers, Mormon temples and temple covenants.

As for "keepers at home," how many temple worthy Mormon women are employed outside the home?

Hammster · May 28, 2020

Still wondering.

He is the way said:
I haven't seen any church doctrine on whether She is a God or not. My belief is that She is a Goddess.

Hammster said:
What would be the difference?

He is the way said:
Goddess = female.

Hammster said:
Well, yeah. Does she have the same divine attributes?

He is the way · May 28, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
LOL! That says nothing about Mormon heavenly mothers, Mormon temples and temple covenants.

As for "keepers at home," how many temple worthy Mormon women are employed outside the home?

The Bible doesn't only apply to members of The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints.

He is the way · May 28, 2020

Hammster said:
Still wondering.

Me too.

mmksparbud · May 28, 2020

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Ephesians 5:22 - 25)

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

(New Testament | Titus 2:2 - 5)

2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Says nothing about God the Father being subject to any other God! There is only Supreme God of the universe---It is the Heavenly Father---there is no other, never has been and never will be.

Hammster · May 28, 2020

He is the way said:
Me too.

Does that mean you don’t know it a goddess is divine?

Rescued One · May 28, 2020

He is the way said:
The Bible doesn't only apply to members of The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints.

Christians understand and respect the Bible far more than any Mormon does!

Rescued One · May 28, 2020

Hammster said:
Does that mean you don’t know it a goddess is divine?

The Doctrine and Covenants which is scripture to them has verses that are simply addressed to the church and does not state that it applies only to men:

Doctrine and Covenants 88
107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.

D&C 132
15 Therefore, if aaman marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

Single humans do not become gods; they will be angels (unless they convert in this life or the next) and proxy temple marriages are performed for them on earth.

The chances of people converting in the next life are iffy:

Book of Mormon, Alma 34:
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.

He is the way · May 28, 2020

Hammster said:
Does that mean you don’t know it a goddess is divine?

It means I do not know what Her attributes are.

He is the way · May 28, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Christians understand and respect the Bible far more than any Mormon does!

So why ask me about women working outside the home when that scripture applies to all women?

Hammster · May 29, 2020

He is the way said:
It means I do not know what Her attributes are.

Then you can’t say that she created woman in her image.

He is the way · May 29, 2020

Hammster said:
Then you can’t say that she created woman in her image.

So since I do not know what Her attributes are, that means that she did not help to create Eve in Her image? Sorry but that is not logical thinking.

Hammster · May 29, 2020

He is the way said:
So since I do not know what Her attributes are, that means that she did not help to create Eve in Her image? Sorry but that is not logical thinking.

It’s very logical.

God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
— Genesis 1:27

We know that God did the creating in His image. It doesn’t say that they created male and female in their images. And if she has no divine attributes, then there’s no way to say that she had anything to do with it, or that Eve was created in her image.

What we can say is that the Godhead is divine, and that all three members of the Godhead were involved. So it makes much more sense, logically, to say that the “us” are the members of the Godhead. Trying to fit a Heavenly Mother who’s not spoken of in scripture, and in the teachings of the LDS stem from hearsay, is begging the question.

He is the way · May 29, 2020

Hammster said:
It’s very logical.

God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
— Genesis 1:27

We know that God did the creating in His image. It doesn’t say that they created male and female in their images. And if she has no divine attributes, then there’s no way to say that she had anything to do with it, or that Eve was created in her image.

What we can say is that the Godhead is divine, and that all three members of the Godhead were involved. So it makes much more sense, logically, to say that the “us” are the members of the Godhead. Trying to fit a Heavenly Mother who’s not spoken of in scripture, and in the teachings of the LDS stem from hearsay, is begging the question.

Illogical, I did not say She had NO divine attributes, I said: "I do not know what Her attributes are". I have no control over Her attributes nor do I know what they are. I do know that it is obvious that Eve is NOT in the image of her Father. God is NOT a single Father, but He is a Father.

Hammster · May 29, 2020

He is the way said:
Illogical, I did not say She had NO divine attributes, I said: "I do not know what Her attributes are". I have no control over Her attributes nor do I know what they are. I do know that it is obvious that Eve is NOT in the image of her Father. God is NOT a single Father, but He is a Father.

The scripture doesn’t support that. You are just guessing.

You are, as I said, begging the question. You can’t get it from the text. You must read into it.

mmksparbud · May 29, 2020

He is the way said:
Illogical, I did not say She had NO divine attributes, I said: "I do not know what Her attributes are". I have no control over Her attributes nor do I know what they are. I do know that it is obvious that Eve is NOT in the image of her Father. God is NOT a single Father, but He is a Father.

You have nothing to say about posts 136 or 141 except she is made in the image of her mother??

LDS MORMONS: Heavenly Mom Gets Less Respect

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Similar threads