The Nicene Creed

Cbowles said:

I don't understand that at all.

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@ViaCrucis has given an excellent explanation.

Cbowles said:

Wow that is very interesting I never heard the creed before.

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It is the Statement of Faith of CF. You agreed to it when you joined CF. See here: CF Statement of Faith | Christian Forums

On our version, you will see an explanatory footnote: The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.

Basically "catholic" (with a small "c") just means "universal."

Our version also has a list of Bible texts which you might find helpful.

Cbowles said:

How can the Lutherans believe in the Roman Catholic church which is part of the creed?

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The word catholic in the creed means universal. If you read the early church fathers you will see the term used over and over again. It was the way early christians differentiated themselves from heretical groups like the Marcionites, Valentinians etc. The operative word in Roman Catholic is the word Roman. The distinctives that we as historical protestants object to are Roman innovations and not the faith of the church Catholic. We are part of the catholic church and should not be afraid of the term. Rome does not have a monopoly on the term.

Athanasius377 said:

The word catholic in the creed means universal. If you read the early church fathers you will see the term used over and over again. It was the way early christians differentiated themselves from heretical groups like the Marcionites, Valentinians etc. The operative word in Roman Catholic is the word Roman. The distinctives that we as historical protestants object to are Roman innovations and not the faith of the church Catholic. We are part of the catholic church and should not be afraid of the term. Rome does not have a monopoly on the term.

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Yea starting to realize that. I have always just been on guard against that term. I will try and be better with that

Cbowles said:

Yea starting to realize that. I have always just been on guard against that term. I will try and be better with that

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Big "C" is not the same as little "c."

Archivist said:

I'm curious...we use the Nicene Creed and the Apostles' Creed, and once a year we recite the very long Athanasian Creed. What other creeds are there since you say we have so many?

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Martin Luther once referred to the Te Deum Laudamus as a "fourth creed"; like the three Ecumenical Creeds it is structured very similarly; it confesses the Trinity and both the humiliation and exhalation of Jesus Christ, and our confidence in life everlasting. In our Lutheran Tradition, we have retained this in "Matins" the morning office.

It was recorded that upon finally spotting land, Christopher Columbus's crew broke out in song singing the Te Deum:

We praise thee, O God : we acknowledge thee to be the Lord.
All the earth doth worship thee : the Father everlasting.
To thee all Angels cry aloud : the Heavens, and all the Powers therein.
To thee Cherubim and Seraphim : continually do cry,
Holy, Holy, Holy : Lord God of Sabaoth;
Heaven and earth are full of the Majesty : of thy glory.
The glorious company of the Apostles : praise thee.
The goodly fellowship of the Prophets : praise thee.
The noble army of Martyrs : praise thee.
The holy Church throughout all the world : doth acknowledge thee;
The Father : of an infinite Majesty;
Thine honourable, true : and only Son;
Also the Holy Ghost : the Comforter.
Thou art the King of Glory : O Christ.
Thou art the everlasting Son : of the Father.
When thou tookest upon thee to deliver man : thou didst not abhor the Virgin's womb.
When thou hadst overcome the sharpness of death :
thou didst open the Kingdom of Heaven to all believers.
Thou sittest at the right hand of God : in the glory of the Father.
We believe that thou shalt come : to be our Judge.
We therefore pray thee, help thy servants :
whom thou hast redeemed with thy precious blood.
Make them to be numbered with thy Saints : in glory everlasting.

[added later, mainly from Psalm verses:]
O Lord, save thy people : and bless thine heritage.
Govern them : and lift them up for ever.
Day by day : we magnify thee;
And we worship thy Name : ever world without end.
Vouchsafe, O Lord : to keep us this day without sin.
O Lord, have mercy upon us : have mercy upon us.
O Lord, let thy mercy lighten upon us : as our trust is in thee.
O Lord, in thee have I trusted : let me never be confounded.

MarkRohfrietsch said:

Martin Luther once referred to the Te Deum Laudamus as a "fourth creed";.

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And now I've got the Te Deum from The Lutheran Hymnal stuck in my head

Somebody has already mentioned this on behalf of Catholics, but we use both the Nicene and the Apostles Creed.

I don't know the liturgical reason or season, but the parish I've attended since I've become Catholic has probably used the Apostles Creed for eighty percent of the time.

They both say the same thing, but there is much more emphasis on Christ's divinity in the Nicene Creed than the Apostles Creed, since it was a reaction against Arianism. It also has more of a poetic ring about it.

Bob Crowley said:

Somebody has already mentioned this on behalf of Catholics, but we use both the Nicene and the Apostles Creed.

I don't know the liturgical reason or season, but the parish I've attended since I've become Catholic has probably used the Apostles Creed for eighty percent of the time.

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In the good old days you would have said the Nicene Creed only; and you would have said it in Latin, the way it's supposed to be said.

But seriously, I think the Apostle's Creed was introduced by Pope Paul VI for masses with children (because they would be more familiar with it). Before that, it was long used liturgically for baptisms.

Since 2002, I believe, the Apostle's Creed has been generally permitted for use with Catholic masses, especially during Lent and Easter.

GreekOrthodox said:

And now I've got the Te Deum from The Lutheran Hymnal stuck in my head

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Worse could happen!

Bob Crowley said:

Somebody has already mentioned this on behalf of Catholics, but we use both the Nicene and the Apostles Creed.

I don't know the liturgical reason or season, but the parish I've attended since I've become Catholic has probably used the Apostles Creed for eighty percent of the time.

They both say the same thing, but there is much more emphasis on Christ's divinity in the Nicene Creed than the Apostles Creed, since it was a reaction against Arianism. It also has more of a poetic ring about it.

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Historically, the Apostle's creed has been "the" Baptismal Creed. The Nicene Creed was compiled to counter heresies regarding the nature of the Trinity (Remember Arius denying the Divinity of Christ; St. Nicholas punching Arius at the council of Nicaea and being expelled; St. Athanasius pleading for and supporting Nicholas to the Emperor; the Emperor readmitting Nicholas, and Arius being ordered to recant).

Arius reverted, and the Church responded by expanding further on the creed, and we have the Athanasian Creed. Not written by Athanasius, but named after him for his staunch support for Nicholas and the truth of the Trinity.

Use of it in the Confessional Lutheran Churches is on the Feast of the Holy Trinity (one week from tomorrow), and occasionally in the daily office. I believe that in the Catholic and Anglo-Catholic traditions, is is also, and is included in the Monastic Breviaries.

MarkRohfrietsch said:

Historically, the Apostle's creed has been "the" Baptismal Creed.

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And that's how the Catholics segued from the Apostle's Creed at baptisms to the Apostle's Creed at masses for children to the Apostle's Creed at regular masses.

MarkRohfrietsch said:

Remember ... St. Nicholas punching Arius at the council of Nicaea

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My hero!

Radagast said:

And that's how the Catholics segued from the Apostle's Creed at baptisms to the Apostle's Creed at masses for children to the Apostle's Creed at regular masses.
My hero!

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In Canada, for many years after the implimentation of the "Canadian Usage" of the Novis Ordo Mass, the Nicene creed was hardly ever used in the Catholic Churches. Maybe 10 years ago, it's usage was restored, along with a more Traditional translation of the Mass; another example would be the restoration of the response "And with your spirit" rather than "And also with you".

An improvement IMO.

From Radagast #89 -

Since 2002, I believe, the Apostle's Creed has been generally permitted for use with Catholic masses, especially during Lent and Easter.

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I'm curious as to why we don't use the Nicene Creed more often. When I was a new Catholic, one of the lifelong draftees said to me "If you're going to learn anything, learn the (Nicene) Creed...". Yet most of the time we use the Apostles Creed.

Incidentally I notice you've got "comes and goes" in your meme. With 21,602 posts under your belt, you come and go a lot...

Bob Crowley said:

Incidentally I notice you've got "comes and goes" in your meme. With 21,602 posts under your belt, you come and go a lot...

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For 17 years, almost. There are people on CF who weren't born yet when I started posting here.... which was back in the days when CF was run out of Australia.

Radagast said:

For 17 years, almost. There are people on CF who weren't born yet when I started posting here.... which was back in the days when CF was run out of Australia.

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You surprise me. I had no idea CF was run out of Australia when it started.

I suppose it's a bit like Creation Science. When I first became a Christian circa late 1982, there was quite a strong Creation Science movement in Brisbane in particular. Ken Ham of Kentucky Ark fame came from Brisbane originally for example, and so did some of the other leading lights.

Danielwright2311 said:

I follow Jesus not any creed.

If there is a creed it is from a group of men who created it due to ownership.

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You seem to think agreeing with a biblical creed means you reject Jesus.

The Nicene Creed was the "curriculum" for teaching new potential converts to Christianity.
It was considered that if you understood the Nicene Creed, then you understood
what it was to be a Christian.

The ancient liturgies include a recitation of the Nicene Creed, in its original Greek form.
The Orthodox liturgy includes reciting the Nicene Creed.
The Catholic liturgy includes reciting the Nicene Creed.
Some evangelical groups regularly include the reciting of the Nicene Creed.

Stephen3141 said:

The Nicene Creed was the "curriculum" for teaching new potential converts to Christianity.
It was considered that if you understood the Nicene Creed, then you understood
what it was to be a Christian.

The ancient liturgies include a recitation of the Nicene Creed, in its original Greek form.
The Orthodox liturgy includes reciting the Nicene Creed.
The Catholic liturgy includes reciting the Nicene Creed.
Some evangelical groups regularly include the reciting of the Nicene Creed.

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Indeed the importance of the Nicene Creed cannot be overstated. Simply put, it is the lithmus test for who is and is not a Christian in a dogmatic sense.

Looking at the dates of entries in this thread, I guess that it is dead.

Although we are called to "contend for the faith, once for all delivered to the saints",
I see little interest in younger American generations, to pay attention to ANY
historical body of Christian belief, as "the faith".

I think that American christians have failed for 3 generations in their catechism
of children and potential converts. So now, most who call themselves
"Christian" in North America are merely social or cultural Christians.

Social or cultural Christians would have no idea why historic Christian creeds
are necessary, or desirable.